BoxRec

If you consider the gift v McDermott and that Price was fancied to beat him for me he over achieved but in a way under achieved after the Wlad win

I do think sports fans in general are very quick to write people off for underperforming, especially when early in their career. I'd be the first to admit I thought Fury wasn't going anywhere until he fought Wlad - and frankly his blatant duck of Price still rankles - but no doubt he's made the most of his ability and has far surpassed what most people ever expected.

He'd be a difficult fight for anyone in history, and even though I rate him historically way below Ali / Holmes / Lewis / Louis, he's at least in the conversation now which I honestly wouldn't have ever believed c.10 years ago.

MasterG wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 10:45

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 10:24

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 09:47 Wlad was definitely on the decline, but then nearly ko'd Joshua in his next fight (and if he wasn't so constantly risk-averse, he almost certainly would have done). As so often with boxing, styles make a huge difference.

You could argue Tyson was massively on the decline post Wilder 2. But, if we stick to facts, Tyson derailed long unbeaten Wlad and Usyk did the same to Tyson.

You know. There are a lot of mediocre boxers who have pulled out a big one.

Without looking through mediocre/journeyman records I cannot put that down in writing, however, off the top of my head, Michael Murray v Marcus Bott. Murray travelled to Europe to beat Bott. Every dog has his day.

It was a razor tight decision, that should have had a rematch for. I’m mean Fury vs Klitchsko , but now it’s a master class that Fury won every round.

stujones wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 15:13

MasterG wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 10:45

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 10:24
You could argue Tyson was massively on the decline post Wilder 2. But, if we stick to facts, Tyson derailed long unbeaten Wlad and Usyk did the same to Tyson.

You know. There are a lot of mediocre boxers who have pulled out a big one.

Without looking through mediocre/journeyman records I cannot put that down in writing, however, off the top of my head, Michael Murray v Marcus Bott. Murray travelled to Europe to beat Bott. Every dog has his day.

It was a razor tight decision, that should have had a rematch for. I’m mean Fury vs Klitchsko , but now it’s a master class that Fury won every round.

All 3 judges had Usyk the winner. That's good enough for me.

Ricky wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 08:17 He had a great career. I remember watching him lose to Mcmuffin and punch himself in the face with an uppercut I thought this guy is going nowhere.

His boxing ability is really limited, but that could be down to his size.... hard to snap into short disguised shots for instance when your 6'9 with a 7ft reach. He's also benefited greatly from his size though, he's a mountain of a man that would probably be rather easily outboxed by run of the mill guys like Wallin if he hadn't been mich bigger than him.

He's had a great career, he should retire now. The problem is that he hates his life, he probably boxes now just to get away from his wife and kids for 3 months+.

very amusing, the fella he self uppercutted against though was Lee Swaby though - quite a decent test that early on - he sparked out Enzo Mac!

I'm going under.

He beat Klitschko, clearly suggesting he was the best at the time - but it was close enough for him to have a rematch (not that I would have watched it, mind).

Then the wilderness years where AJ and Wilder established themselves.

He then beats the piss out of a massively over-hyped Wilder, And flattens a decent Whyte.

Between the Klitschko win and Usyk losses, he did very little to establish himself. He really should've been fighting more names if he wanted to show his worth.

There's more questions than answers about how good he is/was, and for someone that managed to dethrone Klitschko, it's difficult to say they overachieved.

There was really no need for him to fight Wilder a 3rf time but that was down to WBC.

He was in negotiations with AJ at the time.

But then after that, he didn’t do himself any favours.

Fair enough, Whyte was a mandatory.

But then he wanted to give his friend a payday.

Then the Francis fight.

Funny thing is, in between these fights, he was always in ‘negotiations’ to fight AJ or Usyk (after he beat AJ)..

Then, enter Turki.

He definitely overachieved.

The nandrolone & more recently working with Dr Uz probably explains a fair bit of why he overachieved.

He was a fantastic HW. But at his physical peak he was either sidelined or didn't fight often enough. I think he fought Usyk too late in his career.

He achieved so much in his career. And yet his record is maybe not as good as his talent.

Gnome wrote: ↑24 Dec 2024, 14:31 He underachievered after Klitschko, he overachieved coming back after his problems in my opinion

Excellent point - agree.

Overall you have to lean to underachieve - the wasted years and ruination of talent after Klitschko.
Going close with Usyk twice when he was past his peak and very old (in boxing years) shows that he probably woulda beaten Usyk if he 'lived the life'.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 17:15

Ricky wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 08:17 He had a great career. I remember watching him lose to Mcmuffin and punch himself in the face with an uppercut I thought this guy is going nowhere.

His boxing ability is really limited, but that could be down to his size.... hard to snap into short disguised shots for instance when your 6'9 with a 7ft reach. He's also benefited greatly from his size though, he's a mountain of a man that would probably be rather easily outboxed by run of the mill guys like Wallin if he hadn't been mich bigger than him.

He's had a great career, he should retire now. The problem is that he hates his life, he probably boxes now just to get away from his wife and kids for 3 months+.

very amusing, the fella he self uppercutted against though was Lee Swaby though - quite a decent test that early on - he sparked out Enzo Mac!

I still remember showing an ex-gf video of the self uppercut not long after he did it. never thought he'd go on to bigger things! underachieve/overachieve he was world champion several times and was in some wars, earned a bit of money along the way. mad story.

No way has he underachieved. He's beat everybody who he was better than, the one guy who was better than him, beat him.

So par.

I will always be disappointed that we didn't get:-

Fury v Price

Fury v Ustinov (Tyson against a guy bigger than him earlyish in his career)

Fury v Haye

Fury v Klitschko 2

Fury v Povetkin

Fury v Joshua

Fury v Ruiz

Fury v Parker

Fury v Joyce

Fury v Zhang

Fury v Dubois

The only fights from those that we can realistically get are Dubois, Ruiz, Joshua, Zhang.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 12:08 The only fights from those that we can realistically get are Dubois, Ruiz, Joshua, Zhang.

What if Parker beats Dubois? Parker would fight Fury.

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 12:14

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 12:08 The only fights from those that we can realistically get are Dubois, Ruiz, Joshua, Zhang.

What if Parker beats Dubois? Parker would fight Fury.

Don’t think Fury and Parker will ever fight. They best friends.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 09:33 Tony, if you actually listened to experienced boxing people, like Jimmy above, and virtually all the big names in boxing instead of scrolling social media to find trolls with, quite frankly, a similar knowledge level to yourself then you may find a more balanced view of Fury's career.

Still salty about Fury getting exposed eh Mick

Twice Fury/Usyk has clarified my boxing experience and knowledge is better than yours

tonyevs wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 13:09

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 09:33 Tony, if you actually listened to experienced boxing people, like Jimmy above, and virtually all the big names in boxing instead of scrolling social media to find trolls with, quite frankly, a similar knowledge level to yourself then you may find a more balanced view of Fury's career.

Still salty about Fury getting exposed eh Mick

Twice Fury/Usyk has clarified my boxing experience and knowledge is better than yours

I missed the exposed bit. Who by?
Why is it you always reply to me? Coco and Jimmy2025 are big admirers of Tyson yet you never seem to quote them...

mickey1975 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 14:18

tonyevs wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 13:09

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 09:33 Tony, if you actually listened to experienced boxing people, like Jimmy above, and virtually all the big names in boxing instead of scrolling social media to find trolls with, quite frankly, a similar knowledge level to yourself then you may find a more balanced view of Fury's career.

Still salty about Fury getting exposed eh Mick

Twice Fury/Usyk has clarified my boxing experience and knowledge is better than yours

I missed the exposed bit. Who by?
Why is it you always reply to me? Coco and Jimmy2025 are big admirers of Tyson yet you never seem to quote them...

I stopped taking any notice of him a long time ago, I don't come on here for petty arguments, I like to think he gets that

I'm certain I've seen every one of Fury's fights, I remember him making his pro debut on ITV, can't remember what card it was but for a while Hennessey and ITV were pushing him hard, the name Tyson Fury alone sticks out, being a gypsy coming from a long line of fighters, the fact that they say the weighed about 1 lb when he was born yet grew into some 6'9 behemoth, was he only 18 when he turned over ? it was a bit gimmicky but they played it spot on, can't change your name and size or family tree, he was knocking over cans for a few years which is expected but I'd never expected him to become a world champion until a few years later, he got the gift against McDermott in their first fight and that kinda shows you where was, he did put it right in the rematch though then he schooled Chisora, I thought he ducked Price who I thought was a legit world champion contender, obviously that went tits up soon after although it was a while later until I personally accepted the Pricey wasn't right


In saying all that by the time the Klitschko fight came around I fancied Fury to beat Wlad and I know the fight was atrocious but Wlad deserved the flak for that, Fury fought at the level and could've raised if he needed imo

I used to love Fury but the failed test and some of the bollocks he talked put me off, I genuinely couldn't stand him but since the Usyk losses I'm not that fussed with him, the fights with Wilder were epic, the fact that he spent over 3 years in the wilderness and never fought Joshua for undisputed means although he's had a great career he's underachieved

Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 12:03 I will always be disappointed that we didn't get:-

Fury v Price

Fury v Ustinov (Tyson against a guy bigger than him earlyish in his career)

Fury v Haye

Fury v Klitschko 2

Fury v Povetkin

Fury v Joshua

Fury v Ruiz

Fury v Parker

Fury v Joyce

Fury v Zhang

Fury v Dubois

and although he loses half of those fights at least there would be a resume of some note .

skanksta wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 06:55

Gnome wrote: ↑24 Dec 2024, 14:31 He underachievered after Klitschko, he overachieved coming back after his problems in my opinion

Excellent point - agree.

Going close with Usyk twice when he was past his peak and very old (in boxing years) shows that he probably woulda beaten Usyk if he 'lived the life'.

no it doesnt. usyk is 38 in a few days vs tyson's 36. usyk also struggled with injuries for years, let's magically make him younger and fresher to even that hypothetical tbf. usyk finds a way to beat everyone of his generation, like he did twice to tyson. he woulda beat wlad too.

do we need to start a peek fury vs usyk poll

golden_labrador wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 07:51

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 17:15

Ricky wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 08:17 He had a great career. I remember watching him lose to Mcmuffin and punch himself in the face with an uppercut I thought this guy is going nowhere.

His boxing ability is really limited, but that could be down to his size.... hard to snap into short disguised shots for instance when your 6'9 with a 7ft reach. He's also benefited greatly from his size though, he's a mountain of a man that would probably be rather easily outboxed by run of the mill guys like Wallin if he hadn't been mich bigger than him.

He's had a great career, he should retire now. The problem is that he hates his life, he probably boxes now just to get away from his wife and kids for 3 months+.

very amusing, the fella he self uppercutted against though was Lee Swaby though - quite a decent test that early on - he sparked out Enzo Mac!

I still remember showing an ex-gf video of the self uppercut not long after he did it. never thought he'd go on to bigger things! underachieve/overachieve he was world champion several times and was in some wars, earned a bit of money along the way. mad story.

was one hell of a punch. The fella he did it against Lee Swaby was a really good Cruiser where I live (Lincolnshire) and went on to become a fireman for a period. My mate does security for boxing promotions he puts on with his business partner in Lincoln and none of them know he used to be a boxer as he's really humble, I like people like that.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 14:18

tonyevs wrote: ↑28 Dec 2024, 13:09

mickey1975 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 09:33 Tony, if you actually listened to experienced boxing people, like Jimmy above, and virtually all the big names in boxing instead of scrolling social media to find trolls with, quite frankly, a similar knowledge level to yourself then you may find a more balanced view of Fury's career.

Still salty about Fury getting exposed eh Mick

Twice Fury/Usyk has clarified my boxing experience and knowledge is better than yours

I missed the exposed bit. Who by?
Why is it you always reply to me? Coco and Jimmy2025 are big admirers of Tyson yet you never seem to quote them...

I've replied to you because you quoted me. Simple as that.

I respect anybody's opinion regarding boxing/boxers whether I agree with it or not. But as said - if someone specifically quotes me I quote then back.

*Coco is on my blocked/ignore list after he went a weird/mental and became obsessed about my wife.

The forum has definitely been a better place for me since I wasn't personally attacked for having fairly uncontroversial viewpoints.

I certainly did feel their was direct animosity against me, so much so that it seemed a possibility that I must have met the fella.

Anyway after putting it on him a bit he retreated saying he had no idea who I am despite him knowing my real name!!

Maybe he was worried we would bump into each other!

Nevertheless being given some peace is all the apology I need