Roberto Duran vs Benny Leonard in a series?

[elmersalsa]

Even if Duran was never told he was fighting Leonard again less than six months later, he must’ve said to himself after the verdict was announced, that he’d be fighting him again soon. The fight was outstanding, and by no means one sided. Lots of money was made.
If I’m Duran, I’m not gonna say “ hey this was a great fight, fans thoroughly enjoyed it, everyone involved wants to see it again, we made millions, why don’t I go get drunk for a few months and get out of shape”.

It was his manager that betrayed him. You can't fight your own people, too.

[gilgamesh]

These excuses are pathetic no matter how many times you repeat them.

[keithmoonhangover]

I don’t recall the American boxing media having a problem with Duran beating Leonard.
Duran put on a great performance no doubt.
But, you mentioned everybody getting a chance at redemption, what you’re not acknowledging, is one of the biggest problems with Duran quitting against Leonard, is the fact that Duran took away Leonard’s chance at any kind of redemption. He quit and that creates a what if? Situation that fans, fighters, everyone was angry about.

Sugar Ray Leonard brought up on himself. He planned and calculated with his management team led by Mike Trainer and American boxing promoter extraordinary Don King (the greatest boxing promoter of all-time), to go to Panama City and negotiate behind Roberto Duran's back at the offices of Carlos Eleta, Duran's manager.

It was done hush-hush, Eleta got the $8 million and betrayed his own champion. I don't blame Leonard's management one bit. It was a great strategy. They were DESPERATE for a redemption. It couldn't stay that way, due to what Duran did to him in Montreal by disrespecting Leonard and his wife. I don't condone what Duran did either. That was not right. But that was the way it was. That's what really happened. They caught Duran OFF GUARD due to a betrayal and money.

But, Leonard had to do that quickly as possible. And Duran's manager was so stupid that greed, betrayal and money got the best of him.

But, to say that Leonard was better? I don't accept that. Never did. Never will due to what really happened behind the scenes.

I do love your semi-fictional accounts of what happened. It makes for much more interesting reading than say, the truth.

[elmersalsa]

These excuses are pathetic no matter how many times you repeat them.

Because it doesn't fit your agenda. Your agenda is America got to be the greatest.

That No Mas fiasco was nothing but a DIRTY FIX to get back the crown back to America. Roberto Duran embarrassed the American boxing media by whupping their great Golden Boy, their hero, Sugar Ray Leonard. Duran kicked his azz, disrespected the Golden Boy and his wife, and whupped him. That was UNACCEPTABLE! A rematch had to be done quickly as possible. It couldn't stay that way.

So, Leonard and his camp had BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY. A strategy never done in the history of boxing. Mike Trainer, Leonard's manager, flew to Panama City with promoter Don King to discuss the rematch with Duran's manager, Carlos Eleta. They went hush-hush to Eleta's office while Duran was in New York City celebrating his greatest win.

They gave Eleta $8 million dollars. It was money that Eleta nor Duran never saw before. Eleta, as greedy as a wolf, didn't consult with his champion. And why not? Because it was a take it or never see that money again kind of deal.

Do you believe if Duran was in the negotiating table, that he would take that money and fight that soon? Answer me, that. No boxer would have done that, especially a great and smart champion like Duran. It's common sense.

Eleta made the deal with the Devil. He got baited, hooked, and fixed when he could have consulted and considered about his champion for his champion's best interest.

The deal worked to perfection. It was in a short period of time when they knew that Duran wasn't going to be able to perform at the maximum. Duran's camp asked Don King for an extension. It was DENIED. Why was so?

Everything was fixed for Leonard to succeed and for Duran to fail (bigger ring, uneven training time, help from outside sources, etc.) that benefitted Leonard. Not Duran.

It was all about money, revenge, and betrayal. What happened was more than what they expected. Nobody thought that Duran was going to quit. It is what it is.


But on the night of Friday, June 20, 1980, when both were on even terms, when both trained and were at their peak of their powers, Duran showed the whole wide world, who was the greatest fighter of this generation.

[gilgamesh]

I don't have an agenda. I just don't accept excuses from fighters ever. If you were fit enough to step into the ring, you were fit enough to accept the result.

It will never be the fault of anybody but Duran that Duran wasn't in shape for that rematch.

[keithmoonhangover]

That No Mas fiasco was nothing but a DIRTY FIX

Here's me thinking it was Duran's fault.

[Seamus]

How about an argument for specifically why one of these guys would win ?

[Expug]

I think Benny would try to get Duran to lead and he’d counter.
But, I think Duran while coming forward and cutting off the ring would counter Leonard’s counters.
I’d lean towards Duran winning a decision but it would be a very tactical fight. Leonard had great skills and so did Roberto.
Durans ability, when in shape, and that’s the X factor here, to roll his shoulder and avoid right hands while firing back with his own right hand would figure in.
If Duran showed up out of shape, he gets hit with Leonard’s right hand and loses.

[Seamus]

I think Benny Leonard is faster and has the better footwork and defense, while Duran is the better combination and bodypuncher. Stamina and durability I'd rate about even. The big question would be, could Duran cut off the ring enough to really get to Leonard, or would the Ghetto Wizard consistently catch him coming in and slip away. The one area where Leonard has a clear advantage is quality of his opponents. While he's never fought anyone as good as Duran, he's beaten several who are better than anyone on Roberto's resume. I think it's a close fight with neither guy landing heavily, but with Leonard landing enough to 2 and 3 punch counters to win a close decision.

[elmersalsa]

I don't have an agenda. I just don't accept excuses from fighters ever. If you were fit enough to step into the ring, you were fit enough to accept the result.

It will never be the fault of anybody but Duran that Duran wasn't in shape for that rematch.

Duran had no choice but to fight. If he wasn't, he was going to be sued and pay a hefty fine. His manager, Carlos Eleta, fuucked him up. The greedy manager sold and betrayed his own champion for $8 million dollars.

This is not fiction. They are pure facts. Duran had the whole world against him to fail, starting with his own manager. That traitor.

[elmersalsa]

I think Benny Leonard is faster and has the better footwork and defense, while Duran is the better combination and bodypuncher. Stamina and durability I'd rate about even. The big question would be, could Duran cut off the ring enough to really get to Leonard, or would the Ghetto Wizard consistently catch him coming in and slip away. The one area where Leonard has a clear advantage is quality of his opponents. While he's never fought anyone as good as Duran, he's beaten several who are better than anyone on Roberto's resume. I think it's a close fight with neither guy landing heavily, but with Leonard landing enough to 2 and 3 punch counters to win a close decision.

The Roberto Duran that beat Esteban De Jesus in fight #3 beats any version of Benny Leonard. Different class!

[elmersalsa]

That No Mas fiasco was nothing but a DIRTY FIX

Here's me thinking it was Duran's fault.

It was a fix. It was designed for Duran to fail and for Sugar Ray to succeed. That's all that rematch was about. It was never about sportsmanship. It was about revenge, greediness, money and betrayal.

[Ambling Alp II]

The Ray Leonard TKO8 victory over Roberto Duran fight was a fix? Wow. I mean wow. Off of the top of my head, that may be the worst post I have ever seen on Boxrec.

[Ambling Alp II]

How about an argument for specifically why one of these guys would win ?

Leonard could show movement, throw a lot of jabs and occasionally land a combination. Duran as we have seen could be outboxed, and Leonard was good enough to do that. He could win enough rounds to take a decision.
If he tried to fight an aggressive fight, he would play into Duran's hands. Still doubtful Duran would stop him, but Duran would could win a decision if that is how Leonard would have fought.
Maybe Leonard would make the mistake of doing this in one fight, but he was too smart of a fighter to do that more than once in a series.

[elmersalsa]

The Ray Leonard TKO8 victory over Roberto Duran fight was a fix? Wow. I mean wow. Off of the top of my head, that may be the worst post I have ever seen on Boxrec.

It was a dirty fix to make Sugar Ray succeed and for Manos de Piedra to fail. That's all what that No Mas was about. Duran was BETRAYED by his own manager Carlos Eleta.

[elmersalsa]

How about an argument for specifically why one of these guys would win ?

Leonard could show movement, throw a lot of jabs and occasionally land a combination. Duran as we have seen could be outboxed, and Leonard was good enough to do that. He could win enough rounds to take a decision.
If he tried to fight an aggressive fight, he would play into Duran's hands. Still doubtful Duran would stop him, but Duran would could win a decision if that is how Leonard would have fought.
Maybe Leonard would make the mistake of doing this in one fight, but he was too smart of a fighter to do that more than once in a series.

This is delusional. No way a fighter of that style and caliber would beat the great Roberto Duran. No way!

[gilgamesh]

Like the Delusional take that Duran's manager lost the rematch with Ray Leonard and not Duran.

With your logic hasn't every fighter that's ever lost a fight been just screwed over by their manager? I mean, they wouldn't have fought the guy if their manager hadn't signed em up for it.

[keithmoonhangover]

Like the Delusional take that Duran's manager lost the rematch with Ray Leonard and not Duran.

With your logic hasn't every fighter that's ever lost a fight been just screwed over by their manager? I mean, they wouldn't have fought the guy if their manager hadn't signed em up for it.

No, only Duran apparently.

[elmersalsa]

Like the Delusional take that Duran's manager lost the rematch with Ray Leonard and not Duran.

With your logic hasn't every fighter that's ever lost a fight been just screwed over by their manager? I mean, they wouldn't have fought the guy if their manager hadn't signed em up for it.

The stupid manager, Carlos Eleta, betrayed Roberto Duran. He didn't care about his fighter's best interest. He saw the $8 million dollars and ran with it. He knew that he wasn't going to see that type of money again. At least he thought that way.

But, he was very stupid and greedy, that he betrayed his fighter and not telling him what was transpiring. Duran was BETRAYED big time, by his manager and also by his promoter Don King.

Eleta could have get a better deal if he would have consulted with his champion Duran. He didn't, Duran felt hoodwinked and the rest was history. I believe that he quit because everything was against him, even his own manager.

[gilgamesh]

I hear ya buddy. Just like his manager BETRAYED him when he signed him up to fight Wilfrez Benitez, Kirkland Laing, and Robbie Sims. He didn't beat those guys either.

[elmersalsa]

I understand that is very hard to accept the truth. Especially for those Sugar Ray Leonard fans. But, the reality was done hush-hush and Carlos Eleta, Roberto Duran's manager, the one that supposed to protect his fighter's best interest was THE REAL FAULT and reason for Duran to lose.

The rematch had to be done quickly because Duran embarrassed the American boxing media by whupping their American Golden Boy. He disrespected Leonard, his wife and whupped him. That was UNACCEPTABLE.

Why it was unacceptable? Because a man with no English language, a bully, and Latin boxer, could never be in American boxing media eyes, the best fighter pound per pound in the world. It had to be Leonard. It was a total disrespect. Something got to be done. Quickly if it can.

And THE STRATEGY by going to Panama City worked. At a desperate attempt by Mike Trainer, Leonard's manager and promoter Don King, they hush-hush went to Eleta's office and negotiated it the rematch behind Duran's back. Duran wasn't even around in the negotiations. And why was that? He was the champion. He should know what is happening. But, unfortunately he didn't know because his manager betrayed him.

Eleta took the bait and the $8 million dollars. It was a greedy attempt instead of considering and consulting with his fighter, what's going on. He didn't because of greed. He thought that they get this money, by losing the fight and get a third fight for much more money. It BACKFIRED. Why? Because Duran quit.

Duran asked for time, and was denied. He just trained to lose weight and wasn't physically nor mentally prepared. Was it his fault? Nope. The man got the right to enjoy the fruits of his labours. That's in the Bible. What was wrong was that HIS OWN MANAGER BETRAYED HIM.

That Leonard and his camp was at fault because of this beautiful strategy? Not one but. But it was never done in the history of boxing where a management team desperately went and flew to another management team camp and offer a ridiculous amount of money that the other camp, desperately couldn't refuse.

So two management camps were totally desperate. One camp was desperately for money they never seen before ($8 million dollars) and the other camp was desperately for their American Golden Boy to get the title back to America and be the face of boxing again.

That's all what that No Mas was all about. Duran made it worse for quitting because he knew that the whole world, even his own manager Eleta, was against him.

Take it or leave it. That was the way it was.

[elmersalsa]

I hear ya buddy. Just like his manager BETRAYED him when he signed him up to fight Wilfrez Benitez, Kirkland Laing, and Robbie Sims. He didn't beat those guys either.

By that time, Duran wasn't even himself. The No Mas fiasco really affected him big time. The whole country of Panama deserted him. That was a big blow for him to deal with.

Wilfred Benitez beat him at 154lbs. As a matter of fact, he took that fight too soon. But there was no time. His mind was on Sugar Ray Leonard, not Benitez. Benitez was just a stepping stone on his mind to get back at Leonard for a third fight.

Duran even lost to Kirkland Laing. That comes to show you that mentally and physically, Duran was not the same fighter. Duran was forgotten. Duran was through.

But, he had to come back like a real great fighter he was. He knew it. And he did. Not only once, but twice in extraordinary fashion. No fighter has ever done that since.

[gilgamesh]

Manny Pacquiao is kinda doing it. He had the big late career win with Keith Thurman. If he manages one somehow in this newest comeback that'd be huge. I don't look for it to happen, but it's still a possibility at least.

[elmersalsa]

Manny Pacquiao is kinda doing it. He had the big late career win with Keith Thurman. If he manages one somehow in this newest comeback that'd be huge. I don't look for it to happen, but it's still a possibility at least.

Manny Pacquiao's place in boxing history is already secured. No matters what he does from now on, he is a top 20 all-time boxing pound per pound great.

I rated Pacman at #19, just behind Sugar Ray Leonard at #18. They belong in that range pound per pound, deservedly so. Greetings.

[Ambling Alp II]

I wonder if Duran will make the top 17 with all of those losses? I'm sure elmer will look at them and because he is only interested in the 'truth', and say "no way."

elmer is only interested in "the truth", not looking for excuses for his favorites.