gilgamesh wrote: ↑12 Jan 2026, 14:33
So now we come to the breakdown of
Muhammad Ali "The Greatest of All Times"
And his claim to that as a Heavyweight or even as a Pound for Pound Great is about as good as it gets. He has a record of 56-5 with 37 KO's. He has 25 Championship bouts going 22-3 in them.
He has 3 All Time Great wins (Liston, Foreman, Frazier 3). He has 5 Gold star wins (3 non title) (Jerry Quarry 1, Frazier 2, Norton 2 and 3, and Bob Foster) and 28 Quality opponents in an absolutely amazing Heavyweight career.
He loses no points for his loss to Joe Frazier in the Fight of the Century because it's one of the Greatest Fights of All Time, and it raises his legacy honestly to have been a part of it.
When you take it all in his total score comes to
1107 Points. He truly is The Greatest of All Times.
- And Yet---
gilgamesh wrote: ↑20 Jan 2026, 14:19
"The Brown Bomber" Joe Louis
With a record of 66-3 with 52 KO's. He competed in 28 Heavyweight Championship bouts winning 27 of them, and making 26 consecutive World Title defenses. A record that still holds to this day.
He beat about 14 Quality opponents (Carnera, Sharkey, Braddock, Sharkey, Schmeling 2, Buddy Baer 2x, Billy Conn 2x, Abe Simon 2x, Joe Walcott 2x, and Jimmy Bivins) He has what I would consider to be 3 Gold star wins
(Max Baer, Schmeling 2, Walcott 2)
He finishes with a score of
899 Points
And I'd also like to add what a gift it is to the Boxing Historians among us that so many of the fights of Joe Louis are available on video. It's amazing how well the video for some of those fights from the 1930's holds up, and it's also amazing how many of the Pre-World Title bouts of Joe Louis were filmed. A real treasure trove of footage.
I don't consider 2 highly controversial fights with Liston worth a Gold Star rating. As physical assets go, Liston was top shelf and frankly screwed in the 2nd Ali fight due to one of the All Time Disasters in officiating by Maine officials and particular JJ Walcott in a Heavy title fight with what is the All Time smallest, teensy really attendances since modern Heavy history post Jack Dempsey, ie 2434.
The Foreman fight was another travesty in that Foreman was on his feet looking at Clayton when he was waved off at the 9 second mark. The scores were a joke with Foreman giving Ali a beating in their first fight that he never fully recovered from. Then he ducked the immediate lucrative rematch offered by a black oilman in Indonesia to get beat up for peanut$ by Wepner so badly he was bawling to the ref.
Shortly after that fight Big George made an exhibition 5x 3 rd Heavy exhibition in Canada where he knocked out all but Terry Daniels. Ali attended while screaming to George at ringside he ain't ever getting another fight. Security had to escort him back to his seat several times.
Then the drugging by his trainer Sadler in the dressing room before the Ali fight where Foreman had to fire Sadler and Archie Moore. Archie was later hired by George in his comeback after convincing him he was not part of the drugging.
Joe has almost as many KOs as Ali has fights and the few controversies he had he settled by KO in the rematches.
I've watched all of Ali fights and all of Joe's title fights and Joe never stunk out the ring like Ali did too many times while acting like a clown.
Of your Gold Star rankings, the Norton and Frazier 3rd fights were typical in that both beat Ali up for 15 rds to limited
credit. Frazier in particular was on his feet jumping up and down in his corner waiting for the 15th rd. Meanwhile Ali was screaming to Angelo to cut the gloves off like he screamed in the first Liston fight.
I'll just close with Ali screaming(Ali easily went hysteric in public settings), ie Liston, Foreman, and even the long retired Louis.
When mocked for his Bum of the Month record by the new champ, Muhammad Ali, Joe kept it simple and on target…
“I’d make you one of my bums too.”...
