Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 02 Sep 2026, 12:22
by Expug
Victor Vale was Cooneys trainer and it seemed as though they had a certain bond. If not a father/son type relationship, maybe a close friendship.
This can sometimes be detrimental.
Maybe Gerry could have developed a bit better if he had a different trainer. Maybe. I’m not sure how he could’ve fought much differently. Possibly better footwork, maybe move his head more. But he was always gonna rely on that big left hook. Body , head.
Cooneys obstacle was Jones and Rappaport.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 02 Sep 2026, 14:20
by Caractacus
BTW Dennis Rappaport (of The Wacko Twins) has just published his autobiography.
anyone here read it yet ?
here is a link about it. https://iamrappaport.com
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 03 Sep 2026, 19:15
by goose 5
I knew Cooney's personal matchmaker very well. He always defended Cooney's opponents when the allegations of soft matchmaking were leveled. Cooney's bad left shoulder was worse than was ever publicly disclosed.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 05 Sep 2026, 08:55
by keithmoonhangover
goose 5 wrote: ↑03 Sep 2026, 19:15
I knew Cooney's personal matchmaker very well. He always defended Cooney's opponents when the allegations of soft matchmaking were leveled. Cooney's bad left shoulder was worse than was ever publicly disclosed.
I thought Cooney did well with the skills he had. He only lost to first ballot HOFers, made good money and got out of the sport with most of his brains intact.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 05 Sep 2026, 10:29
by Ambling Alp II
From a fan's point of view, I think many people wished he would have fought some of the guys like Weaver, Dokes, Coetzee, Witherspoon, Thomas, etc.
But yeah, from health and $ perspective, his managers did a great job for him. I don't think his trainer hurt his cause but it's hard to say.
He did have some ability. He was more competitive against Holmes than most of Holmes' competition was at the time.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 05 Sep 2026, 10:37
by Seamus
Totally agree with Expug. The Wacko Twins kept Cooney from possibly winning a world title. His punching power was real, but he couldn't hit a moving target. Tillis and Snipes' people were begging for a fight to no avail.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 05 Sep 2026, 11:36
by Caractacus
So why didn't Quick Tillis fight Gerry Cooney and the winner fight Mike Weaver for his title ?
From what I remember reading it was Cooney that was rated 1 and Tillis 2
when Tillis got the shot at a title. Cooney's handlers offered 1 million dollars to him for 'stepping aside" money.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 15 Sep 2026, 10:57
by overhand_right
Caractacus wrote: ↑05 Sep 2026, 11:36
So why didn't Quick Tillis fight Gerry Cooney and the winner fight Mike Weaver for his title ?
From what I remember reading it was Cooney that was rated 1 and Tillis 2
when Tillis got the shot at a title. Cooney's handlers offered 1 million dollars to him for 'stepping aside" money.
Tillis was no 1 contender. Tillis made the call. His then-manager Kaulentis took the 1m offer to him but he refused it, wanted to be champ. A very stupid and short sighted decision which he recognised himself years later.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 15 Sep 2026, 19:54
by Ambling Alp II
Weaver-Cooney would have been interesting. Too bad it never happened.
After the Holmes fight, Cooney seemed to be going back and forth as to whether he want to continue boxing or not.
After the Homes fight, he didn't fight for more than two years. He won a couple of fights and looked decent. Then he didn't fight for two more years. He then blew out Eddie Gregg who wasn't bad. The next year he takes on Michael Spinks and got beaten badly.
Then more than 2 years later fights Foreman and looked terrible and got destroyed again.
He was not as good as some people believed or as bad as his detractors claimed.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2026, 10:41
by overhand_right
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Sep 2026, 19:54
Weaver-Cooney would have been interesting. Too bad it never happened.
After the Holmes fight, Cooney seemed to be going back and forth as to whether he want to continue boxing or not.
After the Homes fight, he didn't fight for more than two years. He won a couple of fights and looked decent. Then he didn't fight for two more years. He then blew out Eddie Gregg who wasn't bad. The next year he takes on Michael Spinks and got beaten badly.
Then more than 2 years later fights Foreman and looked terrible and got destroyed again.
He was not as good as some people believed or as bad as his detractors claimed.
You think Cooney looked terrible versus Foreman? That first round I'd argue is the best he ever looked. Seriously.
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2026, 14:23
by Caractacus
According to Gil Clancey (Cooney's then trainer), Cooney stuck to the original fight plan for round one (stick &move)
but for round two Cooney went his usual route and tried to slug it out with Foreman
(Gil Clancey also said Cooney came in too light for the fight)
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Sep 2026, 19:54
Weaver-Cooney would have been interesting. Too bad it never happened.
After the Holmes fight, Cooney seemed to be going back and forth as to whether he want to continue boxing or not.
After the Homes fight, he didn't fight for more than two years. He won a couple of fights and looked decent. Then he didn't fight for two more years. He then blew out Eddie Gregg who wasn't bad. The next year he takes on Michael Spinks and got beaten badly.
Then more than 2 years later fights Foreman and looked terrible and got destroyed again.
He was not as good as some people believed or as bad as his detractors claimed.
You think Cooney looked terrible versus Foreman? That first round I'd argue is the best he ever looked. Seriously.
Just watched the video that Caractus posted. Well Cooney did land some decent shots in the first round. got nailed too much though. And we know what happened in the 2nd round...
Re: Fighters who were hindered by their trainers ?
Posted: 17 Sep 2026, 14:16
by Caractacus
Of the punches that Cooney had thrown in those 2 rounds,
how many were rights ?
(Cooney had a really good right, he even knocked out some opponents with it).