BoxRec

..brocktonboy....18 ? goodness...i've been guessing you were much younger.

if you didn't seem like such a nice lad i'd say that i knew more about boxing when i was 18 than you will when you're forty.....but then, that would be verbal child abuse.

whatever...you've obviously read both of the marciano bios in print...not only read but studied them....and i appreciate your quoting so much data from them that i had forgotten. keep up the good work.

hahahaha jaclem, i have 22 years to get to that level and If i decide ot become a boxing historian or work for some organzation of boxing, i will do my best to become considered an expert.

i HAVE READ MORE THAN JUST STUFF FROM HIS WEBSITE AND PRINT CRAP, I READ ABOUT A LOT OF OTHERS TO BUT MARCIANOS STORY AND WATCHING HIS FIGHTS REALLY MADE ME THINK ABOUT IT. AND THATS HOW I GOT MY OPINION. OBVISELY I USED SOME QUOTES FORM BIASED MARCIANO EXPERTS TO BACK ME UP BUT SOMEDAY I WILL BE THAT EXPERT THAT MAKES HIS OWN OPINIONS>

i AM NOT JUST PRO MARCIANO, I HAVE KNOWLEDGE ON A LOT OF OTHER FIGHTERS AND DIVISIONS. I COULD BABBLE ON AND ON ABOUT TYSON BEATING HOLYFIELD AND LEWIS IN HIS PRIME AND ALL THAT GARBAGE.

jACLEM, JUST CAUSEU GOT EXPERIENCE DOESNT MEAN ALL UR OPINIONS ARE JUSTIFIABLE. SOME OF UR OPINIONS ABOUT FIGHTERS ARE DEFINTELY QUESTIONABLE. i AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH A BIASED OR QUESTIONABLE OPINION ON A CERTAIN FIGHTER.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:The key here is when u rate them, just cause ones rated higher than the other doesnt mean that fighter could beat the less rated one. so like barry said earlier for example, if i rate marciano 3 and foreman 5 and liston 6, that doesnt mean foreman and liston cant beat marciano. its just marciano did more accomplishments than those two and their career deserves to be rated over anothers. so styles make fights. just cause joe louis is # 1 doesnt mean he could beat eveyrone, he could lose to a fighter thats not rated well but has a good style against him.

Lmao Marciano did more accomplishments...lmao Grammar[/u]

This is a boxing forum, not a grammar lesson. besides most fighters dont know anything about grammar.

It's bad when you have nothing to go after but some ones Grammar, it's not English class!

Grimm wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:The key here is when u rate them, just cause ones rated higher than the other doesnt mean that fighter could beat the less rated one. so like barry said earlier for example, if i rate marciano 3 and foreman 5 and liston 6, that doesnt mean foreman and liston cant beat marciano. its just marciano did more accomplishments than those two and their career deserves to be rated over anothers. so styles make fights. just cause joe louis is # 1 doesnt mean he could beat eveyrone, he could lose to a fighter thats not rated well but has a good style against him.

Lmao Marciano did more accomplishments...lmao Grammar[/u]

Thats a bit rich Grimm considering many of your posts read like someone writing on absinthe!.....

..okay..time for a summation:

brocktonboy.....you have strong beliefs and express them well (forget the grammar lessons)...and...like your hero you keep coming and don't step back.

advice...don't lose your youthful enthusiasm. keep this in mind...if i have seen many fights befire you were born, you're going to see a lot of them after i'm gone. depending, of course, on if there will still be boxing...it's in such sad shape now. you and your chronological peers will be the ones who decide if boxing does stay around.

Marciano wouldnt rank in the top 3 alltime champs simply bc he only defended the title 5 times!! Shavers is one of the hardest hitting heavyweights of all time 73 wins and 67 KOs enough said!!!.

Marciano wouldnt rank in the top 3 because he only defended the title 5 times!! Just for the record Earnie Shavers is one of hardest hitting heavies of all time....73 wins and 67KOs u cabnt argue with that KO percentage...

Marciano Frazier wrote:I rate Rocky just outside the top 3, at #4. I think it would be reasonable to have him a little lower or a little higher. One thing I think strongly here is that most people either overrate or underrate Marciano significantly. A lot of his detractors seem to think he was an inept midget, while many of his most hard-core fans view him as a demi-god. I would consider myself a hard-core fan, but I'm trying hard to be objective, and as I see it, while his undefeated record is a great and unquestionable historical accomplishment, it is true that it is partly a product of circumstance. For instance, Joe Louis was fighting champions from the time he only had about 20 pro fights and was already fighting for the title with barely over 30, and continued on to have 71 in total. I have to imagine that if Marciano had had that many fights against that many champions and contenders over that long a period of time, he would've lost at least a couple times himself. I think, overall, that Louis' longevity and consistent dominance at the top of the division for such a gargantuan time period outweighs Marciano's own undeniably great accomplishments. I also think Muhammad Ali and George Foreman were greater than him, for comparable reasons, and I certainly wouldn't whine about ranking, say, Frazier or Holmes ahead of Marciano, either.

dude, finally
that was one of the smartest things anyone has ever written
rocky is great but we'll never know how much greater he couldnt or could not have been, end of argument

silkov wrote:

Grimm wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:The key here is when u rate them, just cause ones rated higher than the other doesnt mean that fighter could beat the less rated one. so like barry said earlier for example, if i rate marciano 3 and foreman 5 and liston 6, that doesnt mean foreman and liston cant beat marciano. its just marciano did more accomplishments than those two and their career deserves to be rated over anothers. so styles make fights. just cause joe louis is # 1 doesnt mean he could beat eveyrone, he could lose to a fighter thats not rated well but has a good style against him.

Lmao Marciano did more accomplishments...lmao Grammar[/u]

Thats a bit rich Grimm considering many of your posts read like someone writing on absinthe!.....

Really, would you like to point them out?

Marciano ranks highly in that he was unquestionably the best fighter of his era and extremely dominant. However, his rating depends on how highly you rate his era and Marciano's sweep of the division. Others like Jeffries, Dempsey and Louis also dominated the division and there are arguements for ranking them ahead of Marciano.

He is not top 3. Small and old opponents (and those who were not small or old were at best second rate - besides, 6'0 198 isn't particularly big); limited abilities (poor defensive skills, relied too often on his Susie Q hook); rather short reign; tons of luck - all this may suffice for a top 10 ranking, but not for top 3.

My #3 is Larry Holmes, after Louis and Ali (who are joined #1, really).

P

Jaclem wrote:..brocktonboy....18 ? goodness...i've been guessing you were much younger.

I have the opposite impression. From the depth of brockton's knowledge and the maturity of many of his judgements (although Marciano #3 isn't necessarily one of them), I would have thought he is much older. In fact he is less than half my age, but I do not notice this difference at all when I discuss with him, and he's one of the handful of posters who I feel I can really learn from.

P

Alot of men Marciano fought, said that Marciano was undoubtedly the hardest punching man they ever faced in their entire careers.

One sparring partner who both worked with Joe Louis and Marciano said that it would take about four of Louis' punches to equal just one of Marciano's.

Walcott and Charles both said, with all respect to Louis, that Marciano hit harder with one punch than what Louis could.

Take for example some stories of Marciano to prove his power:

When he sparred with Tommy 'Hurricane' Jackson, Marciano hit Jackson so hard to the body that Jackson doubled over hit the floor and vomited all over the ring. Mind you after Marciano retired, Jackson was in the Heavyweight tournament and gave Floyd Patterson problems.

In the 1969 computer fight between Ali and Marciano, Ali knocked off Marciano's wig repeatedly, Marciano told Ali to stop or else he was going to hit him as hard as he could. Ali did it again, Marciano let loose and Ali hit the canvas. Reportedly Ali afterwards demanded more money, else he was not going to continue the project.

When he faced Roland LaStarza for the second time, Marciano trained harder for their rematch, as the last one was so close. Marciano beat on LaStarza's arms so hard that he broke his blood vessels and cracked the bones.

When he faced Carmine Vingo, Marciano was having alot of problems with the much taller Italian, but somehow he managed to break through and tore into Vingo with such fury and rage that Vingo was knocked out and in a coma for several days. Vingo never fought again.

Marciano didn't use standard punching bags, he used the biggest ones he could find (300lbs). When asked why he used such huge bags, he said that he wanted to be able to knock his 200 pound opponents across the ring with the greatest of ease.

Even in his amatuer days, most of Marciano's opponents said that whenever he hit you, all you seen was bright lights and they had no doubt that he would have become champion, even though back then Marciano was just starting out, just failed to make a baseball team roster and had no formal training whatsoever.

Most critics of the time said that Marciano was nothing more than a Neanderthal and that when he faced someone with skills he would be stopped. This never happened. Marciano skipped through the division's middle class and went straight to the better fighters and whupped them all. He faced Charles, Walcott, #1 ranked Louis, Matthews---he beat the best.

It is true that his style was nothing more than a brawler going every time for the knock out, with no foot work and no balance and no defense when he first started out--but by the time he retired his crouching style and bobbing and weaving was down to a science. Watch in his match with Archie Moore, how many times he moved out of the way of his punches in the later rounds.

Marciano even then still had a style that was beatable, but even the best of the era couldn't withstand his power. Think of it this way, other brawlers and punchers have tried making it 49-0 and not even Foreman or Tyson or Louis could do it. And none of them have the KO percentage overall that Marciano has.

So Irish, do you have the Rock in your top 3 ATG HW's?

Yea I do. Easily.

..pundit..i made that comment about brockton's age a long time ago....which you can see by the date entered. actually, even then i was kidding him a little about his high rating of marciano. i agree that by now we've seen he has absorbed a lot of knowledge about boxing in general.....much more than his age would indicate. we've exchanged several personal messages since then, and he has a real interest in boxing history.

Jaclem wrote:..pundit..i made that comment about pundit's age a long time ago....which you can see by the date entered. actually, even then i was kidding him a little about his high rating of marciano. i agree that by now we've seen he has absorbed a lot of knowledge about boxing in general.....much more than his age would indicate. we've exchanged several personal messages since then, and he has a real interest in boxing history.

I saw only now that cojimar reactivitaed a very old thread....
Good call

Brockton,
how can you place tyson no 2 ,this shows how little you know,why do`nt you get back to polishing rock`s shiny headpiece

...i changed it in editing...but just to call your attention again...of course i was referring to brockton and not to pundit in my reply to pundit about the date of my earlier reference.

Well boys and girls my top 10 Hardest Punchers would be:

1. George Foreman
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Joe Frazier
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Mike Tyson
5. Sonny Liston
6. Jack Johnson
7. Max Schmeling
8. Joe Louis
9. Max Baer
10. Ernie Shavers

Crease wrote:Well boys and girls my top 10 Hardest Punchers would be:

1. George Foreman
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Joe Frazier
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Mike Tyson
5. Sonny Liston
6. Jack Johnson
7. Ernie Shavers
8. Archie Moore
9. Joe Louis
10.Rex Layne

rex layne??? BAHHHHAHAHAHA


layne over max baer?? u gotta be kidding. layne could hit hard but nowhere near the top 10


archie moore over joe louis?? why isnt joe louis # 1? moore defintley doesnt belong in the top 10

Sorry boys, I forgot Schmeling and Baer, (both extremely hard hitters)...

BTW, Moore was the "KO KING", he had KO power, in other words, he must've had punch power.

So, yeah he would be close to the top 10...

BTW,

I totoally agree with Rocky Marciano being in the top 3 Heavyweights of All-Time, I personally have him at NO #1.