Re: re
Posted: 16 Dec 2005, 16:31
barry wrote:Most of the top fighters of Marciano's era were better than Cooney ever dreamed of! Cooney was along the lines of Rex Layne, just a bit bigger. Fighters like Bob Baker and Tommy Jackson would have feasted on Cooney and boxed his ears off, while someone like Nino Valdes and Earl Walls could have just as easily put him out as he could have them.
ahh earl walls, glad u mentinoed him barry. he was a tall hard hitter who looked like he was going to be the next threat to marciano. then suddenly at 27, walls retired.
but walls was a very solid fighter and is underated, its too bad he retired i think walls had more potential than valdes, baker and would have eventually got his title shot .
theres a great article on earl walls ill post it here uve probably read it.
- cooney is overated sometimes. he was defintley a worthy fighter based on the holmes preformance and had potential to be an alpha champ, but cooney never beat a fiighter ranked in the top 10 heavyweight at the time. much of the cooney hype was because he was huge, had a big punch and was white. people think highly of a guy like cooney but not moore because moore was a 5'11 185lb light-H and that doesnt sound as good as a 6'7 225lb slugger who hits liek a truck. fact is IMO moore would take cooney too school.
- i think of rex layne nearly as much as i do baker, satterfield, nino, henry. fact is layne had a short prime because after the two brutal back to backKO losses to charles marciano he was never the same again. what layne did after marciano fight hurt his career because he lost a lot and sportswriters would say layne was overated when in fact layne was just washed up. layne said after marciano fight " i was never the same after that fight". but when u look at pre marciano fight, hewas 34-1 with 27 kos and considered by nearly every expert as the next heavy champion. he had taken bob satterfields best punches and came back to KO bob. he had scored a HUGE upset win over jersey joe walcott, and had beaten other contenders like cesar brion, dunlap, turkey thompson, etc. he had quite an impressive resume before marciano fight. i think laynes career gets underated because he went 16-17 after rocky loss. but look at layne in his prime and he is a lot more than given credit for.
- and it wasnt just marciano that ruined layne, in his very niext fight he was suffered a terrible beating and brutal KO loss to charles that officially ruined him.
now when i look at layne on tape i dont think as highly of him as I do a guy like lastarza(very well schooled boxer), or even valdes(big hard hitting slugger with decent boxing skill) but it was clear layne had a great chin, ALOT of heart, packed a heavy right hand, very strong, good inside fighter. but what he lacked was he was crude, not very good defensivley, very slow at times, lacked good boxing skills.
im not overating him nor am i saying he was a world beater. im just stating my opinion of how he is often underated because of his record and late career. but his best years 50-51, he was a much better fighter than later on. u can clearly see the difference on tape. watch him agaisnt a master boxer like jersey joe, how physical he was, driving joe into the ropes and doing great work on the inside. then watch him later on post 1951 and hes clearly not the same fighter.
notice how rex layne right after suffiring brutal ko losses to marciano and charles he loses to a 9-6 clubfighter.
if i rated marcianos era 51-55 the best 15 fighters heres how i see it
1. rocky marciano 5'11 185lb
2. jersey joe walcott 6' 197lb
3. ezzard charles 6' 185lb
4. archie moore 5'11 185lb
5. harold johnson 5'10 178lb
6. roland lastazra 6' 190lb
7. old joe louis 6'2 215lb
8. nino valdes 6'3 210lb
9. Hurricane Jackson 6'4 195lb
10. bob baker 6'2 225lb
11. Earl walls 6'3 195lb
12. 50-51 rex layne 6'1 200lb
13. clarence henry 6'2 185lb
14. bob satterfield 6'2 183lb
15. don cockell 5'11 210lb
16. harry kid mathews 6' 178lb
17. Dan Bucceroni 6'2 190lb
18. heinz neuhas 6'2 215lb
19. Karely Sys 6'3 215lb
20. John Holman 6'3 205lb
so as u see, there were a lot of good solid heavyweight contenders, plus there were also a lot solid big heavyweights as well as u see, plus 5 hall of famers. that looks like a solid crop to me. perhaps u should take the time to study some of those fighters and you would realize they werent as bad as u think.
barry,
how come there was never talk of harold johnson- marciano fight?? was it because moore stole all of johnsons thunder?? because johnson beat the best heavy contenders, yet i never heard talk of marciano-johnnson fight.
also, was there talk of a marciano-satterfield or marciano-baker bout??
