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Posted: 30 Jan 2006, 20:43
by surf-bat
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Questionable chin?? Between that and "Rocky is not slower than Sonny" and I'm beginning to see more and more that you and I will never find each other my friend.
please explain to me how sonny was faster?? his jab is slow. its a thunderous hammer but its slow. just watch his fights, his combinations though deadly are slow. hes just so muscle bound it hurts his reflexes. rocky at certain times showed he had decent handspeed and he threw shortpunches and because of his reach it made his punches travel faster. i just dont see how u think sonny was that much faster than rock?
say what u want about the marshal fight, just remember liston quit on his stool in a title fight vs ali because of a hurt shoulder. for the first time ever, liston was trailing on points and when he needed to comeback he didnt have it in him.
What Liston fights have you seen? Any pre-Patterson bouts?
Posted: 30 Jan 2006, 20:43
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
but FASTER than Rocky
how? listons reflexes were slow and he was just too muscle bound and it slowed his punches down. hes defintley not faster than rocky, probably equal. rocky threw shorter punches and they got there faster because of rockys short arms and at certain times he possesed decent handspeed.
Posted: 30 Jan 2006, 20:44
by surf-bat
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:but FASTER than Rocky
how? listons reflexes were slow and he was just too muscle bound and it slowed his punches down. hes defintley not faster than rocky, probably equal. rocky threw shorter punches and they got there faster because of rockys short arms and at certain times he possesed decent handspeed.
Again, what Liston fights have you seen?
Posted: 30 Jan 2006, 21:36
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Nero3000 wrote:BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:but FASTER than Rocky
how? listons reflexes were slow and he was just too muscle bound and it slowed his punches down. hes defintley not faster than rocky, probably equal. rocky threw shorter punches and they got there faster because of rockys short arms and at certain times he possesed decent handspeed.
Again, what Liston fights have you seen?
bethea
williams I and II
machen
westphal
patterson I and II
ali I and II
Harris
whitehurst II
and most of his post ali fights
Posted: 30 Jan 2006, 21:37
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Liston also fought big-punching Mike DeJohn and walked through everything he threw for 6 rounds for the KO.
is the dejohn fight on tape?
still just because he can walk through dejhn and williams doesnt mean he can walk through marcianos punches
Posted: 30 Jan 2006, 22:56
by surf-bat
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Nero3000 wrote:BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
how? listons reflexes were slow and he was just too muscle bound and it slowed his punches down. hes defintley not faster than rocky, probably equal. rocky threw shorter punches and they got there faster because of rockys short arms and at certain times he possesed decent handspeed.
Again, what Liston fights have you seen?
bethea
williams I and II
machen
westphal
patterson I and II
ali I and II
Harris
whitehurst II
and most of his post ali fights
You have seen the Bethea, Williams, Machen and Westphal fights and yet you still say that Rocky is Sonny's equal in handspeed? Well, I just don't know what to say to that then. Like trying to convince someone that the sky is blue when they wanna see yellow.
Posted: 30 Jan 2006, 23:01
by surf-bat
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Liston also fought big-punching Mike DeJohn and walked through everything he threw for 6 rounds for the KO.
is the dejohn fight on tape?
still just because he can walk through dejhn and williams doesnt mean he can walk through marcianos punches
Yes, it does. Williams was a harder(and faster) puncher than Rocky. In fact many(including myself) think that he was a harder hitter than Liston. Kind of an Earnie Shavers of the 60s.
I don't think Sonny would have to walk through Rocky's shots cuz he wouldn't get hit by that many of them. And the ones he did get hit by he could take. He had good head movement. Heck, he even made Clay miss with some of his shots!
You still haven't told me how Rock would get past the jab. Or how he would be able to absorb Sonny's tremendous hooks and crosses.
Posted: 31 Jan 2006, 21:52
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Nero3000 wrote:BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Nero3000 wrote:
Again, what Liston fights have you seen?
bethea
williams I and II
machen
westphal
patterson I and II
ali I and II
Harris
whitehurst II
and most of his post ali fights
You have seen the Bethea, Williams, Machen and Westphal fights and yet you still say that Rocky is Sonny's equal in handspeed? Well, I just don't know what to say to that then. Like trying to convince someone that the sky is blue when they wanna see yellow.
we will have to agree to disagree then . i sense u dont think much of marciano. where do u rate him all time?
Williams was a harder(and faster) puncher than Rocky.
he may have hit as hard as marciano, but he was not a greater all around puncher than marciano
tough journeyman keene simmons who fought williams and marciano said rocky hit harder than williams
Posted: 03 Feb 2006, 08:44
by Ezzard
Decagon wrote:BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:please explain to me how sonny was faster?? his jab is slow. its a thunderous hammer but its slow. just watch his fights, his combinations though deadly are slow. hes just so muscle bound it hurts his reflexes. rocky at certain times showed he had decent handspeed and he threw shortpunches and because of his reach it made his punches travel faster. i just dont see how u think sonny was that much faster than rock?
Well, you can't compare Sonny Liston's jab to Lennox Lewis's, or Ezzard Charles's. It was a totally different punch, stronger than even some of the greatest heavyweights' straight right. That jab is arguably one of the greatest punches the heavyweight division has ever seen.
The jab, the speed, the chin, the reach. Sonny was all wrong for Marciano. IMO Rocky's best chance is getting into the championship rounds. I alwasy consider marciano to one of (if not the most) conditioned HW champion ever. This and his power gives him a great chance late in a fight versus just about anyone. He's going to have to figth the figth of his life to beat Liston.
I wouldn't question Liston's heart when it comes to taking punishment and I've never ever heard it said this his chin was questionable.
Posted: 06 Feb 2006, 14:26
by Jaclem
..i would tell rocky to get up after the first klnockdown if he could, because his fans would expect it..but stay down on the next one. to quote max baer...."they paid to see a fight, not an execution."