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Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 06:37
by MaxPow
hitman_hatton1 wrote:MaxPow wrote:Tell me one thing, if Hatton is serious about slipping past Mayweather last year for "exposure" fights, why did he decline the DLH-Mayorga undercard? An Oscar PPV is just about as sure a thing as you can get in boxing.
How can be still have the face to call himself "THE MAN" after admitting he isn't ready for Mayweather? "THE MAN" takes on the toughest challengers, whoever they may be, and DOMINATES. He knows he had luck on his side versus Tszyu.
mayweather has moved up in weight and hatton's next fight will be at 140.
if mayweather wanted to really force the issue, he should have stayed at 140 and taken on his no1 mandatory junior witter.
there was no luck involved against tszyu. tszyu was not a shot fighter and he proved it against sharmba mitchell.
i guarantee tszyu would beat all the notable contenders in and around the 140 pound division if he came back.
Mayweather has too many potential fights to stick around for Ricky to decide when he's ready to face the top contender. Ricky turned him down not once, BUT TWICE. Before any talks or "demands" about money. Simply because "THE MAN" isn't ready to face some "lesser contender". If boxing was what it was before, he should have been stripped, period.
No luck? The fake "low-blow" which was not scored a KD alone was more than enough luck to swing the fight and more importantly the momentum Hatton's way. Complete fanboyism to say luck had nothing to do with his win. The choice of the familiar referee, not being penalized for an intentional low-blow, being given plenty of leeway to execute his brilliant plan of wearing down an old fighter by wrestling, hell, even a promoter willing to pay a large amount to bring the champion to Manchester - all those things went his way.
Tszyu could have still beat some contenders had he come back, he wasn't "shot", ofcourse - Kostya was just a far cry from what he was in his prime. His injuries, the appearance of his physique, his AGE and most importantly his performance proved that he was no longer at 100%. Everyone knows that.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 06:53
by jamesmcdonnell
There's definetly some truth in what you say. Tszyu had been injured true, he admitted that he had to change his training methods due to the shoulder injury.
The shot Tszyu landed did look borderline to me, and I think he was unlucky not to have been credited with a knockdown, but he did land several other low blows before.
The low blow from Hatton was blatant, and it did seem to take a lot out of Tszyu.
There is an element of a 'cashout' fight for Tszyu, who was already contemplating retirement and it was an offer he couldn't refuse.
Having said all that, Hatton took some massive shots in the middle rounds, and it looked like Tszyu was going to do him over for a while, Hatton showed he could really carry a shot in there.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 07:15
by Lenny
Good old Lovemore, never misses an opportunity
http://www.britishboxing.net/news_1284- ... -game.html
Hatton is still mentioning Harris on the beeb, is there any chance of this fight still happening, reckon it's the best we can hope for
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 07:25
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
MaxPow wrote:hitman_hatton1 wrote:MaxPow wrote:Tell me one thing, if Hatton is serious about slipping past Mayweather last year for "exposure" fights, why did he decline the DLH-Mayorga undercard? An Oscar PPV is just about as sure a thing as you can get in boxing.
How can be still have the face to call himself "THE MAN" after admitting he isn't ready for Mayweather? "THE MAN" takes on the toughest challengers, whoever they may be, and DOMINATES. He knows he had luck on his side versus Tszyu.
mayweather has moved up in weight and hatton's next fight will be at 140.
if mayweather wanted to really force the issue, he should have stayed at 140 and taken on his no1 mandatory junior witter.
there was no luck involved against tszyu. tszyu was not a shot fighter and he proved it against sharmba mitchell.
i guarantee tszyu would beat all the notable contenders in and around the 140 pound division if he came back.
Mayweather has too many potential fights to stick around for Ricky to decide when he's ready to face the top contender. Ricky turned him down not once, BUT TWICE. Before any talks or "demands" about money. Simply because "THE MAN" isn't ready to face some "lesser contender". If boxing was what it was before, he should have been stripped, period.
No luck? The fake "low-blow" which was not scored a KD alone was more than enough luck to swing the fight and more importantly the momentum Hatton's way. Complete fanboyism to say luck had nothing to do with his win. The choice of the familiar referee, not being penalized for an intentional low-blow, being given plenty of leeway to execute his brilliant plan of wearing down an old fighter by wrestling, hell, even a promoter willing to pay a large amount to bring the champion to Manchester - all those things went his way.
Tszyu could have still beat some contenders had he come back, he wasn't "shot", ofcourse - Kostya was just a far cry from what he was in his prime. His injuries, the appearance of his physique, his AGE and most importantly his performance proved that he was no longer at 100%. Everyone knows that.
Don't be overly biased. Tyszu was somewhat past his best in that he couldn't fight for 12rounds and he didnt have the footspeed of his youth and maybe didn't have the same hunger in his late 30s. Hatton should have been docked a point for a blatant foul and Tyszu should have been credited with a KD. BUT it is a legit win. But Hatton took what Tyszu had and beat him up so he has a legit win.
Did anyone else think Tyszu became KO happy and expected to KO his opponent just by thrwing the straight right?
Hatton is linear but linear while fighting sub-par opposition is not the makings of a memorable champ. Lets hope he steps it up after the next fight.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 07:26
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
Hatton gets my full respect if he fights Harris. If he fights Rabah than Gatti then its a disgrace and hes not in boxing for anything more than money.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 08:23
by MaxPow
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:MaxPow wrote:hitman_hatton1 wrote:
mayweather has moved up in weight and hatton's next fight will be at 140.
if mayweather wanted to really force the issue, he should have stayed at 140 and taken on his no1 mandatory junior witter.
there was no luck involved against tszyu. tszyu was not a shot fighter and he proved it against sharmba mitchell.
i guarantee tszyu would beat all the notable contenders in and around the 140 pound division if he came back.
Mayweather has too many potential fights to stick around for Ricky to decide when he's ready to face the top contender. Ricky turned him down not once, BUT TWICE. Before any talks or "demands" about money. Simply because "THE MAN" isn't ready to face some "lesser contender". If boxing was what it was before, he should have been stripped, period.
No luck? The fake "low-blow" which was not scored a KD alone was more than enough luck to swing the fight and more importantly the momentum Hatton's way. Complete fanboyism to say luck had nothing to do with his win. The choice of the familiar referee, not being penalized for an intentional low-blow, being given plenty of leeway to execute his brilliant plan of wearing down an old fighter by wrestling, hell, even a promoter willing to pay a large amount to bring the champion to Manchester - all those things went his way.
Tszyu could have still beat some contenders had he come back, he wasn't "shot", ofcourse - Kostya was just a far cry from what he was in his prime. His injuries, the appearance of his physique, his AGE and most importantly his performance proved that he was no longer at 100%. Everyone knows that.
Don't be overly biased. Tyszu was somewhat past his best in that he couldn't fight for 12rounds and he didnt have the footspeed of his youth and maybe didn't have the same hunger in his late 30s. Hatton should have been docked a point for a blatant foul and Tyszu should have been credited with a KD. BUT it is a legit win. But Hatton took what Tyszu had and beat him up so he has a legit win.
Did anyone else think Tyszu became KO happy and expected to KO his opponent just by thrwing the straight right?
Hatton is linear but linear while fighting sub-par opposition is not the makings of a memorable champ. Lets hope he steps it up after the next fight.
Sorry if it sounds "overly biased" but those are all accurate details of the match. Feel free to challenge a specific detail before you sling around words like "overly biased". Come on. It was a legit win and I never said it wasn't a legit win. But all those thing I mentioned surely helped turn the momentum in Hatton's favor and he did have lucky on his side. All the luck Tszyu had in that fight was bad luck.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 08:50
by jamesmcdonnell
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Hatton gets my full respect if he fights Harris. If he fights Rabah than Gatti then its a disgrace and hes not in boxing for anything more than money.
I suspect this is what is going to happen. I can well see these two fights, another mandatory, and then a massive fight when he's built his profile in the states against either Cotto or Mayweather, followed by retirement soon afterward to count his money, win or lose.
I hope I'm proven wrong, but I strongly suspect this is what we are going to get.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 09:01
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
MaxPow wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:MaxPow wrote:
Mayweather has too many potential fights to stick around for Ricky to decide when he's ready to face the top contender. Ricky turned him down not once, BUT TWICE. Before any talks or "demands" about money. Simply because "THE MAN" isn't ready to face some "lesser contender". If boxing was what it was before, he should have been stripped, period.
No luck? The fake "low-blow" which was not scored a KD alone was more than enough luck to swing the fight and more importantly the momentum Hatton's way. Complete fanboyism to say luck had nothing to do with his win. The choice of the familiar referee, not being penalized for an intentional low-blow, being given plenty of leeway to execute his brilliant plan of wearing down an old fighter by wrestling, hell, even a promoter willing to pay a large amount to bring the champion to Manchester - all those things went his way.
Tszyu could have still beat some contenders had he come back, he wasn't "shot", ofcourse - Kostya was just a far cry from what he was in his prime. His injuries, the appearance of his physique, his AGE and most importantly his performance proved that he was no longer at 100%. Everyone knows that.
Don't be overly biased. Tyszu was somewhat past his best in that he couldn't fight for 12rounds and he didnt have the footspeed of his youth and maybe didn't have the same hunger in his late 30s. Hatton should have been docked a point for a blatant foul and Tyszu should have been credited with a KD. BUT it is a legit win. But Hatton took what Tyszu had and beat him up so he has a legit win.
Did anyone else think Tyszu became KO happy and expected to KO his opponent just by thrwing the straight right?
Hatton is linear but linear while fighting sub-par opposition is not the makings of a memorable champ. Lets hope he steps it up after the next fight.
Sorry if it sounds "overly biased" but those are all accurate details of the match. Feel free to challenge a specific detail before you sling around words like "overly biased". Come on. It was a legit win and I never said it wasn't a legit win. But all those thing I mentioned surely helped turn the momentum in Hatton's favor and he did have lucky on his side. All the luck Tszyu had in that fight was bad luck.
You make your own luck in boxing, Tyzsu wasn't prepared for 12rounds of Hattons pressure and though he'd win early, thats why Ricky won
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 09:39
by MaxPow
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:MaxPow wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Don't be overly biased. Tyszu was somewhat past his best in that he couldn't fight for 12rounds and he didnt have the footspeed of his youth and maybe didn't have the same hunger in his late 30s. Hatton should have been docked a point for a blatant foul and Tyszu should have been credited with a KD. BUT it is a legit win. But Hatton took what Tyszu had and beat him up so he has a legit win.
Did anyone else think Tyszu became KO happy and expected to KO his opponent just by thrwing the straight right?
Hatton is linear but linear while fighting sub-par opposition is not the makings of a memorable champ. Lets hope he steps it up after the next fight.
Sorry if it sounds "overly biased" but those are all accurate details of the match. Feel free to challenge a specific detail before you sling around words like "overly biased". Come on. It was a legit win and I never said it wasn't a legit win. But all those thing I mentioned surely helped turn the momentum in Hatton's favor and he did have lucky on his side. All the luck Tszyu had in that fight was bad luck.
You make your own luck in boxing, Tyzsu wasn't prepared for 12rounds of Hattons pressure and though he'd win early, thats why Ricky won
Do you think momentum exists in boxing?
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 10:14
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
Momentum? Not to the extent you do, unless Tyszus balls were in agony for the rest of the fight. Each round is different - or can be different. Tyszu just ran out of puff after the mid-rounds.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 10:55
by MaxPow
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Momentum? Not to the extent you do, unless Tyszus balls were in agony for the rest of the fight. Each round is different - or can be different. Tyszu just ran out of puff after the mid-rounds.
1 point for the intentional low-blow. And an additional 1-3 points for the "low-blow" which was a KD. (From a 10-9 to a 10-8 round or a 9-10 to a 10-8 round). One point is enough to swing the result of a close fight, what more is 2-4 points. In a 12 round fight, that's a point each for a third of the entire fight.
The amount of arguably illegal holding which sapped much of the strength of an old Tszyu.Out of all the referees in the world, it just happened to be one of either Dave Parris or Mickey Vann. What are the chances of that happening (unless there were specific external factors that influenced the selection).
Luck had something to do with those factors which Tszyu had absolutely no control over. Unless ofcourse you're suggesting that someone was paid off and all those circumstances were orchestrated to give Hatton a better shot at beating the 35 year-old Tszyu in Manchester. I would never assume something like that without any proof, would you?
Not to mention the damage caused by the hard intentional low-blow from Hatton. That was a serious shot way below the beltline, those don't just go away, they stay with you. In my opinion, Hatton's fighting style and relentlessness/bodyshots was a major factor in Tszyu quitting, but so were the aforementioned details of the match.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 10:59
by jamesmcdonnell
Hmm. I've seen a video clip before of Lou Dova taking a baseball bat to one of his fighters genitals who was wearing a protector as a demonstrations of the fact that shots to the nuts do not hurt anywhere near as much as people think.
It IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC 1 POINT DEDUCTION FOR A DELIBERATE LOW BLOW, no matter what you might like to think.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:09
by MaxPow
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm. I've seen a video clip before of Lou Dova taking a baseball bat to one of his fighters genitals who was wearing a protector as a demonstrations of the fact that shots to the nuts do not hurt anywhere near as much as people think.
It IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC 1 POINT DEDUCTION FOR A DELIBERATE LOW BLOW, no matter what you might like to think.
Oh, Duva "show and tell" with a baseball bat. Did it ever occur to you that he had some kind of an agenda. Would you let someone go at you with a baseball bat? Do you think he was actually hitting that guy in the nuts with full force? Talk about being gullible. Look up "publicity stunt" in the dictionary. Seriously.
It isn't an automatic one point deduction for a deliberate low-blow, but a shot that blatant should be. Who wants to see something that despicable in boxing again. We certainly don't need it. If you want to have a discussion on low-blows and their place in boxing, start a thread and I'll be happy to oblige to argue against your position of defending deliberate low-blows.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:13
by MaxPow
The same Lou Duva who in another publicity stunt put a pair of trunks on a punchbag and said that the punches are gonna be above the beltline for the rematch?
The same Lou Duva who said he told Meldrick Taylor to "dance, dance, dance" in the 12th round versus Chavez yet it in the replay he was saying that he desperately needed the 12th to win?
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:15
by jamesmcdonnell
Oh do shut up mate, I've seen a lot worse, stop talking bollocks. Hatton received a good few tags to the nuts from Tszyu, and he hadn't been warned prior to that by the ref, so there was no justification for removing a point.
Do you think that's the first time anyone ever deliberately tagged someone in the nuts? You're talking out yer arse mate.
Perhaps some of the professionals on here can tell us whether they think people play up how hurtful a shot to the protector actually is?
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:20
by MaxPow
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Oh do shut up mate, I've seen a lot worse, stop talking bollocks. Hatton received a good few tags to the nuts from Tszyu, and he hadn't been warned prior to that by the ref, so there was no justification for removing a point.
Do you think that's the first time anyone ever deliberately tagged someone in the nuts? You're talking out yer arse mate.
Perhaps some of the professionals on here can tell us whether they think people play up how hurtful a shot to the protector actually is?
Wow, class. It's good to see you can carry on a debate without resorting to harsh remarks.
Sure, whatever you think makes your argument to legalize low-blows in boxing "mate".
Good stuff, good stuff.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:38
by jamesmcdonnell
I never said they were legal, I am pointing out correctly that the referee was right not to deduct a point.
I don't care whether you find my harsh remarks offensive, as you are clearly talking bollocks by insinuating the referee should have taken a point off of Hatton. I can agree with some of your points regarding the fight being in Hatton's favour, but you are clearly intent on totally discrediting Hatton's win.
There were no official warnings given, and it's highly unusual for a referee to deduct points before giving the fighter an official warning that the next time they commit the same infringement.
In fact, there would rightly have been uproar had he deducted a point, as up to that point, Hatton had not been admonished at all by the referee as far as I can recall.
Fact is, point docked or not, Tszyu quit on his stool so what difference it would have made is beyond me outside of the theoretical benefits Tszyu would have gotten psychologically from an extra point.
It's all well and good with the benefit of hindsight and video replay saying the referee should have given that a 10-8 or even 10-7 to Tszyu, but you are not a referee, and the ref doesn't have a video replay to make his decision. Borderline shots get punished as low blows all the time because it is often much harder for the referee to see where the blow lands than it is for TV audiences.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:42
by MaxPow
No, no, no. Lou Duva hit someone in the nuts with a baseball bat. They must be legalized.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:43
by Coconut
Kostya Tszyu's been a top boxer for decades.
You think his repeated tapping of Hatton's nuts was accidental?
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:44
by jamesmcdonnell
Whatever mate. Bore off.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:44
by J
max pow you are only getting the same snidey aloof sarcasm that you dish out, if you cant take it dont deal it out.
Now back to hatton and low blows, ive seen a lot worse Bowe Golota springs to mind all of the low blows in that were horrific. So dont give it the "oh shameful" line, that we should stop such horrific acts in the ring, fornicate me ive seen much worse. Tyson got away with biting holyfield once for christ sake and they didnt call the fight off immidiately.
Add to the fact that Hatton had just been smacked in th nuts for the 3rd time (according to the ref) and due to this its doubtful his retaliation would not have received a deducted piont, thsi is half the reason I think, that hatton did it, as he knew that the ref was gonna have a tough time justifying it.
He went right ive taken 3 have one back ya sod.
Id also like top point your one eyed view to the 3rd I think it was when Zoo turned WWE on hatton and slammed him into the canvass, if the low blow was worthy of a deduction so was that.
I hear lots of criticism of hatton being dirty in that fight but Kostya was no angel but as usual the more one eyed folk with a pathetic agenda to discredit hattons win dont see it that way. (usually the very same people who predicted a ko2 for kostya i hasten to add.)
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:45
by J
MaxPow wrote:No, no, no. Lou Duva hit someone in the nuts with a baseball bat. They must be legalized.
see what i mean you snidey pratt?
and you wonder why you get a frosty reception
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:49
by MaxPow
Whenever I watch the replay it just becomes clearer that the shot that dropped Hatton was a good legal punch.
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:51
by J
yip i can agree with that but it wouldnt have changed the result.
so whats your point?
Posted: 02 Mar 2006, 11:54
by MaxPow
MaxPow wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Momentum? Not to the extent you do, unless Tyszus balls were in agony for the rest of the fight. Each round is different - or can be different. Tyszu just ran out of puff after the mid-rounds.
1 point for the intentional low-blow. And an additional
1-3 points for the "low-blow" which was a KD. (From a 10-9 to a 10-8 round or a 9-10 to a 10-8 round). One point is enough to swing the result of a close fight, what more is 2-4 points. In a 12 round fight, that's a point each for a third of the entire fight.
The amount of arguably illegal holding which sapped much of the strength of an old Tszyu.Out of all the referees in the world, it just happened to be one of either Dave Parris or Mickey Vann. What are the chances of that happening (unless there were specific external factors that influenced the selection).
Luck had something to do with those factors which Tszyu had absolutely no control over. Unless ofcourse you're suggesting that someone was paid off and all those circumstances were orchestrated to give Hatton a better shot at beating the 35 year-old Tszyu in Manchester. I would never assume something like that without any proof, would you?
Not to mention the damage caused by the hard intentional low-blow from Hatton. That was a serious shot way below the beltline, those don't just go away, they stay with you. In my opinion,
Hatton's fighting style and relentlessness/bodyshots was a major factor in Tszyu quitting, but so were the aforementioned details of the match.