Ali Wepner: What are the facts re: the famous Knockdown?

[SenorPipino]

Man, I am getting old Tony1244.

How could I possibly overlook those 2 knockdowns from one of the greatest Battle Royales in heavyweight history?

So okay, Big George was down FOUR times. But I'm certain that Wepner didn't turn the trick also.

[Kalan]

He didn't.. Nor was the Bobick-Wepner fight close before the stoppage.. Bobick beat the crap out of Wepner in a slop-house fight.

As far as Wepner being as tough as Tex Cobb??? ... NO he wasn't.. Tex was bigger and tougher.. Mathis wiped the floor with Wepner when he stopped him.. ATG Heavyweight Larry Holmes couldn't hurt or floor prime Cobb with a zillion head punches.. Also Cobb was caught up in some kind of altercation where guys were swinging baseball bats at him.. His arm was badly broken and he had tremendous bumps and lumps on his head -- but he didn't sustain a concussion..

However if you take thousands and thousands of head punches your resistance does eventually crack -- and that happened to Cobb.

[Tony1244]

Watch Bobick-Wepner again. When I did it looked closer than I had remembered it.

SenorPipino, I guess you were having a señor moment. Its funny the things we temporarily forget.

[Kalan]

Bobick-Wepner wasn't close at all... If you score rabbit punches and punches to the back it was close.. That was the worst display of rabbit punching without points being taken that I've ever seen.. Wepner scored with about half as many clean punches.

Let's face it, Bobick was beating the crap out of Wepner -- which I think is telling -- cuz when Bobick was in with a good fighter he was damned hamburger.. Duane got cleaned up and knocked out by Norton, Tate, Knoetze, and the ranking Heavyweights of his day.. Bobick lacked speed, mobility and the physical strength to man handle a fouler like Wepner.. Bobick led with his face and hunched his shoulders.. Physically he was very soft.. He had some nice attributes for his day -- Great reach, good size, and fair power.

When you get a kid like Bobick who fought with a forward head and hunched shoulders throughout his amateur career it's a physical disability.. As soon as he meets a real good athlete of good height and size, who has an excellent stance, movement, and boxes correctly, he’s gonna get the shiit knocked out of him.. It’s imperative that he have a strength coach, a Yoga trainer, and gymnastics coach to get his torso, shoulders, neck and head straightened up and aligned correctly. He’ll never have a stance, movement, or will be able to box well if his body isn’t untwisted. He won't move into the big money or beat anyone good.

[Tony1244]

Bobick-Wepner wasn't close at all... If you score rabbit punches and punches to the back it was close.. That was the worst display of rabbit punching without points being taken that I've ever seen.. Wepner scored with about half as many clean punches.

Let's face it, Bobick was beating the crap out of Wepner -- which I think is telling -- cuz when Bobick was in with a good fighter he was damned hamburger.. Duane got cleaned up and knocked out by Norton, Tate, Knoetze, and the ranking Heavyweights of his day.. Bobick lacked speed, mobility and the physical strength to man handle a fouler like Wepner.. Bobick led with his face and hunched his shoulders.. Physically he was very soft.. He had some nice attributes for his day -- Great reach, good size, and fair power.

When you get a kid like Bobick who fought with a forward head and hunched shoulders throughout his amateur career it's a physical disability.. As soon as he meets a real good athlete of good height and size, who has an excellent stance, movement, and boxes correctly, he’s gonna get the shiit knocked out of him.. It’s imperative that he have a strength coach, a Yoga trainer, and gymnastics coach to get his torso, shoulders, neck and head straightened up and aligned correctly. He’ll never have a stance, movement, or will be able to box well if his body isn’t untwisted. He won't move into the big money or beat anyone good.

I saw Bobick-Middleton live when I was a kid. Unfortunately, I can't even find a photo of that fight much less a film. Bobick won by decision. Larry was a strong opponent for Duane at that time.

[Kalan]

I saw Bobick-Middleton live when I was a kid. Unfortunately, I can't even find a photo of that fight much less a film. Bobick won by decision. Larry was a strong opponent for Duane at that time.

Middleton was more of a middling opponent. Not anybody who's highly skilled, a great athlete, or somebody who's going to break you into the money. Bobick could beat guys like that. Bobick had good size, reach, and fair strength. His coaching as a pro wasn't that bad. But you couldn't get his shoulders down or his head back. Like a lot of guys you couldn't correct flaws in his stance. Trainers just give up and let those guys fight their own way.

Somebody like Wladimir Klitschko wanted to be great so he'd work for hours and hours to perfect his stance and footwork. He would admonish Steward if he weren't making enough critiques. But if you have actual physical flaws, like Bobick had, you have to get that body right before you can do anything with it -- so that the correct technique feels and looks natural. If you have a forward head and hunched shoulders nothing is going to stick.

[SenorPipino]

Watch Bobick-Wepner again. When I did it looked closer than I had remembered it.

SenorPipino, I guess you were having a señor moment. Its funny the things we temporarily forget.

Those moments are becoming more and more frequent.

I just watched Bobick-Wepner.

It was hardly one-sided although I had Bobick up 3-2 before the 6th round stoppage. A very quick wave-off by the referee.

It was quite a mauling fight. Neither guy looked blessed with great talent.

An off balance, sloppy bout punctuated by a lot of grabbing and frequent rabbit shots from Wepner.

He did the same to Ali. Ali returned the favor when he eventually became pissed. Bobick should have too.

I wouldn't say Bobick beat the crap out of Wepner. He was just demonstrated slightly more technique.

But watching the ponderous Bobick, you can understand why he went out so quickly 7 months later against Norton.

[Tony1244]

Watch Bobick-Wepner again. When I did it looked closer than I had remembered it.

SenorPipino, I guess you were having a señor moment. Its funny the things we temporarily forget.

Those moments are becoming more and more frequent.

I just watched Bobick-Wepner.

It was hardly one-sided although I had Bobick up 3-2 before the 6th round stoppage. A very quick wave-off by the referee.

It was quite a mauling fight. Neither guy looked blessed with great talent.

An off balance, sloppy bout punctuated by a lot of grabbing and frequent rabbit shots from Wepner.

He did the same to Ali. Ali returned the favor when he eventually became pissed. Bobick should have too.

I wouldn't say Bobick beat the crap out of Wepner. He was just demonstrated slightly more technique.

But watching the ponderous Bobick, you can understand why he went out so quickly 7 months later against Norton.

Bobick fought a guy in the mean time named Fred Houpe Sanford. He took the name from Redd Fox who managed him. Think Sanford & Son. Anyway, that fight is on youtube and I thought Bobick didn't look too good in it. I hadn't seen it when it happened but if I had seen Bobick-Sanford then I would have realized his chances against Norton were slim to none.

[Kalan]

I hated that fight for Houpe... He was undefeated and doing well -- but didn't have enough fights for Bobick and let them use him for cannon fodder.

Then Fred takes almost a year off because his eye was severely damaged in that mismatch... and they throw him in with Larry Holmes and he takes a severe beating.. And at some point he's just getting beaten up and quits.. But comes back 20 years later when they offer him a fight with washed up Leon Spinks when he's 45 -- and he wins it.. but after that he's just fighting for money and can't get out of the 3rd round because he nearly 50 years old.

Sometimes I hate what Boxing does to people. They're like discarded shells.

[BoxBuzz]

Boxing doesn't "do" anything to people. It's a sport....people get engaged, take their chances...win,lose draw.....people do things to themselves with the decisions they make.
That sort of thinking leads to gun control, government programs, and a nanny state......be careful or you'll start thinking inanimate objects are out to get you. And sports are out to
take control of our lives. Only the govt can save us from Football, and Boxing.

[Caractacus]

How about poverty then ?
what does that do to people if anything ?

[Kalan]

Right.. Governments all over the world help people in poverty. Some better than others. Millions of people were thrown out of work by the Great Recession. If we listened so some hard hearted souls, they'd get no help at all from the government that they pay taxes to all their lives.

But spoken like a simple minded Trumpist BuzzBox ... “ALL FOR NONE – NONE FOR ALL!!” Some of those lifeless objects are bullets taking out 59 concert goers and injuring 100’s of others.. Inanimate objects in the hands of crazed individuals are not the freedoms our forefathers envisaged. The rest of the world doesn’t experience mass shooting of this frequency and magnitude.

Football started doing something about CTE as soon as it became known that it leads to a plethora of physical, emotional, neurological, and cognitive disorders.

As of 2012, the four major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada have concussion policies that are helping cut down the incidence of concussions and retiring players with compensation who are getting more than their share of these incidents.. The have far better evaluation tools on the sidelines and don’t let players back into games after coming out because of a head blow.

It’s not up to the government to regulate Football, Boxing, or other sports. Sports themselves generally try to make as safe an environment for the athlete as possible. That’s not being anyone’s nanny. That’s being a good human being. Boxing is notorious for inaction..

Boxing has done a few things internationally.. Like make it mandatory a boxer doesn’t fight for 90 days after getting knocked out.. They’ve increased the size of the gloves several times to provide for more cushion.. Made foul-proof cups mandatory.. Put in the neutral corner rule.. It all seems to be slow going and at a snail’s pace – because everybody has to agree when a change is made.. With so many different countries and authorities in Boxing it makes it very difficult – so the international structure of Boxing could be improved.

[keithmoonhangover]

How about poverty then ?
what does that do to people if anything ?

"When I was a young fellow I was knocked down plenty. I wanted to stay down, but I couldn't. I had to collect the two dollars for winning or go hungry. I had to get up. I was one of those hungry fighters. You could have hit me on the chin with a sledgehammer for five dollars. When you haven't eaten for two days you'll understand."
Jack Dempsey

[Tony1244]

How about poverty then ?
what does that do to people if anything ?

"When I was a young fellow I was knocked down plenty. I wanted to stay down, but I couldn't. I had to collect the two dollars for winning or go hungry. I had to get up. I was one of those hungry fighters. You could have hit me on the chin with a sledgehammer for five dollars. When you haven't eaten for two days you'll understand."
Jack Dempsey

Very interesting quote. That's when it really was prizefighting.

[keithmoonhangover]

How about poverty then ?
what does that do to people if anything ?

"When I was a young fellow I was knocked down plenty. I wanted to stay down, but I couldn't. I had to collect the two dollars for winning or go hungry. I had to get up. I was one of those hungry fighters. You could have hit me on the chin with a sledgehammer for five dollars. When you haven't eaten for two days you'll understand."
Jack Dempsey

Very interesting quote. That's when it really was prizefighting.

Yep. The likes of Dempsey and Ketchel were a different breed.

[Kalan]

Ketchel was a breed who got his teeth knocked out and was shot to death at an early age... Tough life.

Dempsey was was successful boxer, actor, and businessman.

[BoxBuzz]

Boxing doesn't "do" anything to people. It's a sport....people get engaged, take their chances...win,lose draw.....people do things to themselves with the decisions they make.

That sort of thinking leads to gun control

,


Are you f&&&ing sure?

government programs, and a nanny state......be careful or you'll start thinking inanimate objects are out to get you. And sports are out to
take control of our lives. Only the govt can save us from Football, and Boxing.

Blub, alub, alub, alub, alub, alub, alub, alub, alub, alub, alub.

That was just me attempting to be a typical American, but I'm afraid even allowing for my lack of COLLEGE EDUCATION, and old age, I simply can not find it within myself to be that ferking stupid.

I have been to Ethiopia where the poorest people I have known were rich in spirit, and making their way in the world due to just such a rich spirit. very little manifest resources to be seen.

I have been to Beverly Hills where the richest people were drowning in the psychological sewers they have created for themselves....and many very nasty and unhappy despite having ZERO third world problems....and the problems they did have were highly imaginative.

Poverty (not always) but more often than folks care to believe, begins and ends with the spirit. People can find happiness even in places where there appears to be a complete lack of viewable/measurable resources.

[BoxBuzz]

Goldie your an Absolute fool, and I bet you sample other spirits as well. Something that is not all that bad. And by the way, you are you as welcome here as the next guy. Nobody's going to smack you around for having an opinion.
What I like best is your judgmental opinion about my judgmental opinions, your humility makes mine look almost humble by comparison.
And you've been known to have a sound opinion about boxing now and again, to boot.

[Kalan]

Ketchel was a breed who got his teeth knocked out and was shot to death at an early age... Tough life.

Dempsey was was successful boxer, actor, and businessman.

Dempsey was a WHITE Heavyweight CHAMPION, and in those racist days that is ALL he needed to be.

He needed to be an ATG puncher with an ATG chin... There weren't a half dozen gifted black Heavyweights like there was after the turn of the Century.

[Caractacus]

Ketchel was a breed who got his teeth knocked out and was shot to death at an early age... Tough life.

Dempsey was was successful boxer, actor, and businessman.

Dempsey was a WHITE Heavyweight CHAMPION, and in those racist days that is ALL he needed to be.

Jack Dempsey was THE Heavyweight CHAMPION,
no one could have beat him in his prime back then that was in the boxing world.

[Kalan]

Though a bit like Louis's reign... No surplus of big, tall, strong, fast, athletic, super skilled challengers -- and the NBA wasn't even recruiting all the talent.

[BoxBuzz]

Goldie your an Absolute fool, and I bet you sample other spirits as well. Something that is not all that bad. And by the way, you are you as welcome here as the next guy. Nobody's going to smack you around for having an opinion.
What I like best is your judgmental opinion about my judgmental opinions, your humility makes mine look almost humble by comparison.
And you've been known to have a sound opinion about boxing now and again, to boot.

BoxBuzz,

I don't believe you have even a semblance of a clue what an absolute fool is or isn't. Your pathetic attempt at word play ( absynth - absolute ) totally sums you up.

I believe I now know why some folks convince themselves you are in fact Kalan, masquerading under an alt. Both of you suffer from a hugely over inflated sense of your own importance / intelligence.

Yes yes yes, enjoy the forum....and all the entertainment I provide with all my doppelgangers.....just remember....if you keep arguing with me, others will imagine that YOU are also ME.....and honestly....do you really want that? So whaddya say we join in a chorus of the ol' KumbayYAYA's.....and let it go. Unless you fancy the Borg life.

[Caractacus]

no one knows how really good Harry Wills actually was,I think
How many filmed fights exist of him ?
all the ones I've seen from the 1920's he is getting either knocked down and knocked out and usually both.