BoxRec

lvlarc_uk wrote:

lvlarc_uk wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Do you actually watch any boxing at all? Wlad is 2nd best, what after getting nuked by Sanders and Brewster, and fighting like a scared rabbit against Sam Peter? Samil Sam! Based on what?

How was Vitali Klitchsko a GREAT fighter? Who did he beat to become a great fighter?

Vitali shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Holyfield and Lewis.

Where would you rate Wlad then? I know hes mentally shot but after he beats Byrd it will be hard not to have him in top 3.

What about now, Wlad make your top 3?

Kind of hard not to as he's beaten Byrd, but I will hold fire on offering my top 5 right now. Byrd is the one guy Wlad doesn't need to be scared of, let's see how he fares againts Brewster in a rematch, or Rahman.

Terence wrote:I think I'm all Toneyed out now chaps. I'll stop before I bore anyone to death.

Are you a fan of Toney's by any chance Terence?

Terence wrote:I think I'm all Toneyed out now chaps. I'll stop before I bore anyone to death.

i hate to admit it, but toney-robinson is not as close as i remember. watched it again this am, and the crafty bugger was controlling it quite easily, some lovely head movement and acute counter punching. i almost gave robinson a couple of rounds but toney took the play from him to sweep 'em away.

probably my opinion was exaggerated by toney's wankerish recent statements and pretty depressing, lazy drop in form


who knows how toney would have done vs byrd and gomez. with toney's extra (cruiser/heavy) weight i think he would've found it hard - harder than vs Nunn and Johnson which were pretty anxious struggles - as Juan Carlos could move beautifully and throw powerful snappy shots. the way toney turns his shoulder/head/body inward, he can be hit by right hooks from a leftie stance, especially to the body, if the guy is fast. gomez was a wicked body puncher


Toney really beats the shit out of guys who come to him, i pick him to beat any pressure guy from 160-190 in the last 20 years (except Qawi). but vs fine boxers, his fights r much closer, sometimes hard to score. mccallum twice, nunn, reggie, to an extent griffin. would be very interesting to see him with big, fast fine boxers.

I remember reading about Toney at ringside, shouting: "He's from New York, he can't fight!" Junior Jones came over and wagged a finger in his face.
Toney did nothing.

Terence wrote:Whew Maussa, I get cramp in my fingers just seeing your name on this thread. The Quawi one is a good shout, excellent dream fight.

I'm a big Toney fan but he can get on people's tits I suppose and you could see it as distracting. I'd love it, just love it, if he came in on the Holyfield weight. He'd be WBC title-holder right now. To be fair if I sat down and scored the Reggie fight tonight (that's my evening set then) I'd probably have it that bit closer with the knock-down. If I do I'll pop my card up.

Was a good back and forther though and raised some interesting points, I'll be investing in some Gomez stuff to jog my memory!

yeah, i had to watch the robinson fight again just to make sure, lol

Gomez was one snappy puncher. imo he would've wiped out Johnny Nelson, Tiozzo and probably would've outboxed Jirov. sadly he went pear shaped after moving up to heavy. depressing stuff


as for JT's m/w fights, it seems he was more controversial over here than in the states, tiberi aside. i don't have too much of a problem with the mccallum draw and win (great fights), as toney's harder punching may have got him the results.

(katz, puttnam and greg smith had toney winning or getting a win and a draw. lotierzo had mccallum winning the 1st one (if you haven't seen it, check out smith's article Toney-McCallum I & II: High Art & Controversial Scoring, from boxingranks.com ). Boxing News had McCallum winning I but convincingly losing II)


the reggie fight is a hard one to score - problem for toney is he was KD in a very close fight. problem for reggie is he did nothing over the last 3 rds. what won the fight for toney, i think, was the terrible cut he had in the last rd. they were both being lazy, then all of a sudden toney brings it on & makes a good closing impression

however, it does seem he had someone watching over him, that he beat 'em all AND tiberi AND retained his IBF title after being over the weight for Del Aquill...

however, toney does have a piece of m/w history - he beat both of Hagler's heir apparents: McCallum (from a purist pov) and Nunn (from a yankie doodle dandy boys club pov). so props to him for that