Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 08:42
Yet Kessler loses nothing for having injuries and being inactive. 
Some standards some have.
Some standards some have.
Page 3 of 4
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 08:50
I didn't mention Kessler.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 09:11
If you have to bring up Kessler, then how about Kessler is inactive but not pulling out of actual fights all the time.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 09:37
so what's his bloody excuse then? 
I doubt this fight will ever happen, but I wish it did, I have a feeling Calzaghe would wipe the floor with him. Kessler is good, but he fights on rails, no lateral movement at all, and he looks very mechanical and methodical. Don't think that style would trouble a mobile and fast hitting fighter like Joe. Joe struggles more with cute counterpunchers and that doesn't describe Kessler at all.
I doubt this fight will ever happen, but I wish it did, I have a feeling Calzaghe would wipe the floor with him. Kessler is good, but he fights on rails, no lateral movement at all, and he looks very mechanical and methodical. Don't think that style would trouble a mobile and fast hitting fighter like Joe. Joe struggles more with cute counterpunchers and that doesn't describe Kessler at all.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 09:45
Nice fight, but both these guys are taking the easy route, rather than face the main man at 168, Joe Calzaghe.
For instance, I've never heard either of these two "superstars" calling out Jeff Lacey. Kessler sees Beyer as a highly beatable protected champ, and camp Beyer are looking for a safeish retirement fight against a non puncher.
Nothing more than a final eliminator to face the real champ, which they'll put off for as long a poss, nach.
For instance, I've never heard either of these two "superstars" calling out Jeff Lacey. Kessler sees Beyer as a highly beatable protected champ, and camp Beyer are looking for a safeish retirement fight against a non puncher.
Nothing more than a final eliminator to face the real champ, which they'll put off for as long a poss, nach.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 10:01
no one ever tries to call out Kessler. He's conspicuous by his absense from the mouths of the top super middles. He tried to get a fight with Lacy last year, but Lacy pretended that Kessler priced himself out (kessler said he'd fight in Lacy's backyard for a big sum, or in Denmark for a much smaller). He tried to fight Calzaghe in 2004, and I hear JC said he couldn't go to Denmark for being scared of getting on a plane, yet was seen @ Barrera-Morales III!MightyWarrior wrote:Nice fight, but both these guys are taking the easy route, rather than face the main man at 168, Joe Calzaghe.
For instance, I've never heard either of these two "superstars" calling out Jeff Lacey. Kessler sees Beyer as a highly beatable protected champ, and camp Beyer are looking for a safeish retirement fight against a non puncher.
Nothing more than a final eliminator to face the real champ, which they'll put off for as long a poss, nach.
It's a superb matchup - between two quality titleholders - no matter how you try to degrade it. Yes, calzaghe is the man - we had a feeling he was ofr 8 years, then he really emphasised why he should be, last March. Ring magazine must hate this fight, as it ridicules their championship policy. This is the #2 vs the #3. Calzaghe-Lacy was the #1 vs the #4. The winner of Calzaghe-Lacy and Kessler-Beyer can only really decide the full champion!
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 10:02
My point is Kessler has injuries but if he has a fight scheduled he goes through with it. He may get injured in those fights or ticking over but I dont recall him pulling out of one contest. We dont even need to go into Sicknote's history! Its pretty rare for a fighter to go through a whole training camp without some sort of injury or niggle. Most just carry on, Calzaghe clearly doesn't.jamesmcdonnell wrote:so what's his bloody excuse then?
I doubt this fight will ever happen, but I wish it did, I have a feeling Calzaghe would wipe the floor with him. Kessler is good, but he fights on rails, no lateral movement at all, and he looks very mechanical and methodical. Don't think that style would trouble a mobile and fast hitting fighter like Joe. Joe struggles more with cute counterpunchers and that doesn't describe Kessler at all.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 10:15
That's horseshite. It depends what sort of injury. Minor strains and the like are often worked through, but to enter a fight with broken hands or a sprained wrist or elbow would be sheer madness.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 11:28
Danish PPV? Isn't it possible to see the public german channels everywhere in Denmark?Freiheit wrote:His massive following Denmark...
The boxing is on a very small channel. If there are 100K viewers per card its a good card.
Kessler is not that know in Denmark. He has only fourght once of a big channel, vs Craig Cummings, all his other fights have been on either PPV on small-ish channels.
Parken will not even be close to be sold out, their are just having the card their since our best boxing facility can hold 7-8000. I think Team Palle should be thankfull if there will be 15K spectators. Allthough it has been mentioned in the press that only a small part of Parken will be used, so that their can only be 12K spectators
Economical this is both Kessler and Beyer's career high purses. Beyer is getting 1½mill Euro + german TV rights, while Kessler number havent been made public yet (I guess it depends on the danish PPV figures).
The card will be a co-promotion between Palle and Sauerland, so some of Sauerland's other fighters should also be on the card.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 11:40
So you are saying what? That the fight would be staged in Germany, and shown in Denmark? It's likely that if anything the fight would be staged in the UK and it would be PPV in Europe I would have thought. Don't think American TV would pick it up.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 13:23
Dissagree with you on that one. Kessler's prefered style is counterboxing. It's just that he hardly ever faces opposition that allows him anything that the offensive role.jamesmcdonnell wrote:...Joe struggles more with cute (???)counterpunchers and that doesn't describe Kessler at all.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 13:29
He was going to fight Vitali Tyspko and pulled out of that injured! Calzaghe rescheduled Lacy and schooled him.nickd wrote:If you have to bring up Kessler, then how about Kessler is inactive but not pulling out of actual fights all the time.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 13:30
Yes - and if it's aired on ARD/ZDF it would completely destroy any chance of selling it PPV in Denmark.shot wrote:Danish PPV? Isn't it possible to see the public german channels everywhere in Denmark?
I'm kind of thinking that the real reason the fight is in Denmark, is so that Sauerland can get out of their usual deal with ARD (don't know this - just speculation).
I will be thrilled if it's shown on ARD.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 14:15
It will be on ARD, which leads to another question: Does Kessler speak German like lots of Danes do? He´s young, he´s good looking, potentially a unified champion and he´ll be well known in Germany through the Beyer fight. In other words, he can be the big fish in a bigger pond.dumdane wrote:Yes - and if it's aired on ARD/ZDF it would completely destroy any chance of selling it PPV in Denmark.shot wrote:Danish PPV? Isn't it possible to see the public german channels everywhere in Denmark?
I'm kind of thinking that the real reason the fight is in Denmark, is so that Sauerland can get out of their usual deal with ARD (don't know this - just speculation).
I will be thrilled if it's shown on ARD.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 14:44
Fact is Calzaghe had many doubters before he hammered Lacy, then everyone knew he is for real. Now with this latest July debacle the doubts are back a bit. Lets hope Octobers opponent is up to scratch.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 14:53
I've seen Kesslers name mixed with Taylor, Hopkins etc in a load of interviews, on fightnews, boxingtalk.com and BBC.nickd wrote:You have to question if Calzaghe fancies the job. He completely dismisses Kessler as a potential opponent whenever asked - not well known enough blah blah blah, yet talks of wanting unification fights at 168. Which is it to be Calzaghe?
Just search BBC for Mikkel Kessler, you will get results.
Someone said the fight between Joe & Jeff was #1 v #4 ? I'm pretty sure I remember seeing Lacy at #3.Calzaghe aims for Kessler contest
You may also remember Kessler's team demanding 65% of the purse against Lacy, god knows what they ask for Joe.
I'm definetly hoping this fight comes off tho' and have little doubt Kessler will be beaten, shit Kessler may not even get past an old Beyer!
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 15:28
Lvlarc on Kessler's ranking it depends prior to Calzaghe vs Lacy - it depends on which sites you view. I saw some (like the boxingranks poll) that had Lacy at 2. However, the poll was mainly compiled by US journalists - some (now the site is dead I can say) had only done one/two articles on a website. Not saying they didn't know their stuff, but had they realistically seen Beyer or Kessler.
Most Brits probably had Beyer at 2. Kessler vs Lacy was closer... I saw some sites that had Kessler at 3 and other with Lacy at 3. However, I never (and thats the truth) thought that Lacy's resume warranted to be ahead of Kessler - even though I would have tipped him to beat Mikkel.
Lacy best wins = a past it Robin Reid, Scott Pemberton and Syd Vanderpol.
Kessler best wins = Eric Lucas (faded but only 1 defeat since losing to Beyer), Mundine (former WBA champion) and Sciaca (the man who beat Mundine).
He also had the likes of Julio Cesar Green, Andre Thysse and Theobela on his resume. Its much better than Lacy, even though I thought Lacy would have beaten him - I don't now.
Regardless of if you see Kessler/Beyer as way below Joe or on a par. I think MW's analogy of an elimination is fairly accurate. What is fact, is that this is the final nail in Super Middle coffin for Joe - he's already got some what ifs about Ottke, he doesn't want it for the winner of this one.
I wouldn't say go for Kessler if he wasn't fighting Beyer - but now he is, Joe simply MUST fight him (or Beyer is successful). When Lewis beat Michael Grant, considered by some as the then next big heavy hope, It was Barry McGuigan who mentioned the doubt he had (after the fight and ordering the PPV) and said "well, Michael Grant has been overhyped - David Tua is the geniune prospect".
So what does Lewis do - beat David Tua. Then it was, well he's overhyped its Wladimir Klitchsko whose the prospect. Well, Corrie Sanders sorted him out - so the only prospect left was Vitali and Lewis did him aswell. Even cleaning out the next generation (Ruiz and Byrd had already lost) there have still people saying What if Ike didn't get into trouble - then Lewis would have been found out.
Now the Kessler and Beyer are halfing the workload by facing each other, it is so worth Joe fighting the winner. Then no-one can really say - well what about him (especially as Dawson has moved up). As soon as Joe beat Lacy even respect Journo's attention turned to whether they got it wrong and it was Mikkel who was going to dominate the next generation.
If Beyer wins, Joe should persue him aswell.
Most Brits probably had Beyer at 2. Kessler vs Lacy was closer... I saw some sites that had Kessler at 3 and other with Lacy at 3. However, I never (and thats the truth) thought that Lacy's resume warranted to be ahead of Kessler - even though I would have tipped him to beat Mikkel.
Lacy best wins = a past it Robin Reid, Scott Pemberton and Syd Vanderpol.
Kessler best wins = Eric Lucas (faded but only 1 defeat since losing to Beyer), Mundine (former WBA champion) and Sciaca (the man who beat Mundine).
He also had the likes of Julio Cesar Green, Andre Thysse and Theobela on his resume. Its much better than Lacy, even though I thought Lacy would have beaten him - I don't now.
Regardless of if you see Kessler/Beyer as way below Joe or on a par. I think MW's analogy of an elimination is fairly accurate. What is fact, is that this is the final nail in Super Middle coffin for Joe - he's already got some what ifs about Ottke, he doesn't want it for the winner of this one.
I wouldn't say go for Kessler if he wasn't fighting Beyer - but now he is, Joe simply MUST fight him (or Beyer is successful). When Lewis beat Michael Grant, considered by some as the then next big heavy hope, It was Barry McGuigan who mentioned the doubt he had (after the fight and ordering the PPV) and said "well, Michael Grant has been overhyped - David Tua is the geniune prospect".
So what does Lewis do - beat David Tua. Then it was, well he's overhyped its Wladimir Klitchsko whose the prospect. Well, Corrie Sanders sorted him out - so the only prospect left was Vitali and Lewis did him aswell. Even cleaning out the next generation (Ruiz and Byrd had already lost) there have still people saying What if Ike didn't get into trouble - then Lewis would have been found out.
Now the Kessler and Beyer are halfing the workload by facing each other, it is so worth Joe fighting the winner. Then no-one can really say - well what about him (especially as Dawson has moved up). As soon as Joe beat Lacy even respect Journo's attention turned to whether they got it wrong and it was Mikkel who was going to dominate the next generation.
If Beyer wins, Joe should persue him aswell.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 15:33
Great post Stu, there can be no question marks once he is undisputed champion. If he has to move up to 175 do it after facing the winner of this contest. Glen Johnson is nothing like a superfight.stujones wrote:Lvlarc on Kessler's ranking it depends prior to Calzaghe vs Lacy - it depends on which sites you view. I saw some (like the boxingranks poll) that had Lacy at 2. However, the poll was mainly compiled by US journalists - some (now the site is dead I can say) had only done one/two articles on a website. Not saying they didn't know their stuff, but had they realistically seen Beyer or Kessler.
Most Brits probably had Beyer at 2. Kessler vs Lacy was closer... I saw some sites that had Kessler at 3 and other with Lacy at 3. However, I never (and thats the truth) thought that Lacy's resume warranted to be ahead of Kessler - even though I would have tipped him to beat Mikkel.
Lacy best wins = a past it Robin Reid, Scott Pemberton and Syd Vanderpol.
Kessler best wins = Eric Lucas (faded but only 1 defeat since losing to Beyer), Mundine (former WBA champion) and Sciaca (the man who beat Mundine).
He also had the likes of Julio Cesar Green, Andre Thysse and Theobela on his resume. Its much better than Lacy, even though I thought Lacy would have beaten him - I don't know.
Regardless of if you see Kessler/Beyer as way below Joe or on a par. I think MW's analogy of an elimination is fairly accurate. What is fact, is that this is the final nail in Super Middle coffin for Joe - he's already got some what ifs about Ottke, he doesn't want it for the winner of this one.
I wouldn't say go for Kessler if he wasn't fighting Beyer - but now he is, Joe simply MUST fight him (or Beyer is successful). When Lewis beat Michael Grant, considered by some as the then next big heavy hope, It was Barry McGuigan who mentioned the doubt he had (after the fight and ordering the PPV) and said "well, Michael Grant has been overhyped - David Tua is the geniune prospect".
So what does Lewis do - beat David Tua. Then it was, well he's overhyped its Wladimir Klitchsko whose the prospect. Well, Corrie Sanders sorted him out - so the only prospect left was Vitali and Lewis did him aswell. Even cleaning out the next generation (Ruiz and Byrd had already lost) there have still people saying What if Ike didn't get into trouble - then Lewis would have been found out.
Now the Kessler and Beyer are halfing the workload by facing each other, it is so worth Joe fighting the winner. Then no-one can really say - well what about him (especially as Dawson has moved up). As soon as Joe beat Lacy even respect Journo's attention turned to whether they got it wrong and it was Mikkel who was going to dominate the next generation.
If Beyer wins, Joe should persue him aswell.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 15:39
He claimed he waited 8 years to unify, why not go another 6-8 months to go the full distance, and try and capture the entire weight class.nickd wrote:Great post Stu, there can be no question marks once he is undisputed champion. If he has to move up to 175 do it after facing the winner of this contest. Glen Johnson is nothing like a superfight.stujones wrote:Lvlarc on Kessler's ranking it depends prior to Calzaghe vs Lacy - it depends on which sites you view. I saw some (like the boxingranks poll) that had Lacy at 2. However, the poll was mainly compiled by US journalists - some (now the site is dead I can say) had only done one/two articles on a website. Not saying they didn't know their stuff, but had they realistically seen Beyer or Kessler.
Most Brits probably had Beyer at 2. Kessler vs Lacy was closer... I saw some sites that had Kessler at 3 and other with Lacy at 3. However, I never (and thats the truth) thought that Lacy's resume warranted to be ahead of Kessler - even though I would have tipped him to beat Mikkel.
Lacy best wins = a past it Robin Reid, Scott Pemberton and Syd Vanderpol.
Kessler best wins = Eric Lucas (faded but only 1 defeat since losing to Beyer), Mundine (former WBA champion) and Sciaca (the man who beat Mundine).
He also had the likes of Julio Cesar Green, Andre Thysse and Theobela on his resume. Its much better than Lacy, even though I thought Lacy would have beaten him - I don't know.
Regardless of if you see Kessler/Beyer as way below Joe or on a par. I think MW's analogy of an elimination is fairly accurate. What is fact, is that this is the final nail in Super Middle coffin for Joe - he's already got some what ifs about Ottke, he doesn't want it for the winner of this one.
I wouldn't say go for Kessler if he wasn't fighting Beyer - but now he is, Joe simply MUST fight him (or Beyer is successful). When Lewis beat Michael Grant, considered by some as the then next big heavy hope, It was Barry McGuigan who mentioned the doubt he had (after the fight and ordering the PPV) and said "well, Michael Grant has been overhyped - David Tua is the geniune prospect".
So what does Lewis do - beat David Tua. Then it was, well he's overhyped its Wladimir Klitchsko whose the prospect. Well, Corrie Sanders sorted him out - so the only prospect left was Vitali and Lewis did him aswell. Even cleaning out the next generation (Ruiz and Byrd had already lost) there have still people saying What if Ike didn't get into trouble - then Lewis would have been found out.
Now the Kessler and Beyer are halfing the workload by facing each other, it is so worth Joe fighting the winner. Then no-one can really say - well what about him (especially as Dawson has moved up). As soon as Joe beat Lacy even respect Journo's attention turned to whether they got it wrong and it was Mikkel who was going to dominate the next generation.
If Beyer wins, Joe should persue him aswell.
41 fights at 168, and he could fulfill his legacy with his 42nd or 43rd. I think ti would be dumb to go elsewhere, why not finish the job in the division you've been in since day 1.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 15:50
Right on the money!Mattyp151 wrote:He claimed he waited 8 years to unify, why not go another 6-8 months to go the full distance, and try and capture the entire weight class.nickd wrote:Great post Stu, there can be no question marks once he is undisputed champion. If he has to move up to 175 do it after facing the winner of this contest. Glen Johnson is nothing like a superfight.stujones wrote:Lvlarc on Kessler's ranking it depends prior to Calzaghe vs Lacy - it depends on which sites you view. I saw some (like the boxingranks poll) that had Lacy at 2. However, the poll was mainly compiled by US journalists - some (now the site is dead I can say) had only done one/two articles on a website. Not saying they didn't know their stuff, but had they realistically seen Beyer or Kessler.
Most Brits probably had Beyer at 2. Kessler vs Lacy was closer... I saw some sites that had Kessler at 3 and other with Lacy at 3. However, I never (and thats the truth) thought that Lacy's resume warranted to be ahead of Kessler - even though I would have tipped him to beat Mikkel.
Lacy best wins = a past it Robin Reid, Scott Pemberton and Syd Vanderpol.
Kessler best wins = Eric Lucas (faded but only 1 defeat since losing to Beyer), Mundine (former WBA champion) and Sciaca (the man who beat Mundine).
He also had the likes of Julio Cesar Green, Andre Thysse and Theobela on his resume. Its much better than Lacy, even though I thought Lacy would have beaten him - I don't know.
Regardless of if you see Kessler/Beyer as way below Joe or on a par. I think MW's analogy of an elimination is fairly accurate. What is fact, is that this is the final nail in Super Middle coffin for Joe - he's already got some what ifs about Ottke, he doesn't want it for the winner of this one.
I wouldn't say go for Kessler if he wasn't fighting Beyer - but now he is, Joe simply MUST fight him (or Beyer is successful). When Lewis beat Michael Grant, considered by some as the then next big heavy hope, It was Barry McGuigan who mentioned the doubt he had (after the fight and ordering the PPV) and said "well, Michael Grant has been overhyped - David Tua is the geniune prospect".
So what does Lewis do - beat David Tua. Then it was, well he's overhyped its Wladimir Klitchsko whose the prospect. Well, Corrie Sanders sorted him out - so the only prospect left was Vitali and Lewis did him aswell. Even cleaning out the next generation (Ruiz and Byrd had already lost) there have still people saying What if Ike didn't get into trouble - then Lewis would have been found out.
Now the Kessler and Beyer are halfing the workload by facing each other, it is so worth Joe fighting the winner. Then no-one can really say - well what about him (especially as Dawson has moved up). As soon as Joe beat Lacy even respect Journo's attention turned to whether they got it wrong and it was Mikkel who was going to dominate the next generation.
If Beyer wins, Joe should persue him aswell.
41 fights at 168, and he could fulfill his legacy with his 42nd or 43rd. I think ti would be dumb to go elsewhere, why not finish the job in the division you've been in since day 1.
By all means jump to 175 if need be for say a fight with Hopkins but then come back to 168 and finish up. But for Glen Johnson? No fornicating way is that worth passing up a chance at the undisputed title for.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 17:46
ARD will be scrambled on cable TV.shot wrote:Danish PPV? Isn't it possible to see the public german channels everywhere in Denmark?Freiheit wrote:His massive following Denmark...
The boxing is on a very small channel. If there are 100K viewers per card its a good card.
Kessler is not that know in Denmark. He has only fourght once of a big channel, vs Craig Cummings, all his other fights have been on either PPV on small-ish channels.
Parken will not even be close to be sold out, their are just having the card their since our best boxing facility can hold 7-8000. I think Team Palle should be thankfull if there will be 15K spectators. Allthough it has been mentioned in the press that only a small part of Parken will be used, so that their can only be 12K spectators
Economical this is both Kessler and Beyer's career high purses. Beyer is getting 1½mill Euro + german TV rights, while Kessler number havent been made public yet (I guess it depends on the danish PPV figures).
The card will be a co-promotion between Palle and Sauerland, so some of Sauerland's other fighters should also be on the card.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 17:57
Lacy's ranking - it was smeg suspect. Just cos he had some muscles, a punch and a big mouth ppl had him #2 when he had no right to be ahead of Kessler. Ring I think had him #3. His loss to Calzaghe drops him at least to 4. Lots of members of the media who vote on the WorldBoxingMedia.com site had lacy ahead of Calzaghe.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 19:04
Well Kessler was a more active champ Maussa so I kind of didn't blame them having Lacy ahead.
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 19:33
Posted: 13 Jul 2006, 19:37
Christ, so he does.
Can anyone see anything other than a Kessler win here?
Can anyone see anything other than a Kessler win here?