Calzaghe back Oct 14th

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:40

Max Molyneux wrote:No it's fact which your opinion isn't until proven.

As a courtesy, here is the proof again as you have obviously overread it

--------

1) Calzaghe said he couldn't fight on October 14 when the opponent was Beyer.

2) Now it turns out Calzaghe intents to fight EXACTLY on October 14, but an opponent different from Beyer.

3) The only possibility to link 1) and 2) in a logically coherent way is: Calzaghe would not fight on October 14 BECAUSE the opponent would have been Beyer.

Which is exaclty the same as: Calzaghe duck...duck duck...duck duck duck ducked Beyer.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:41

Max Molyneux wrote:No it's fact which your opinion isn't until proven.

A little observation:

the list of fighters Calzaghe has ducked ONLY IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS -- Glencoffe Johnson, Clinton Woods, Mikkel Kessler, Markus Beyer -- is far more impressive than the list of fighters he has fought IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:49

It's true Max Joe Calzaghe ducked the great legendary Markus Beyer, also Mikkel Kessler is the greatest SMW of all time. Got it?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:50

You wouldn't see Calzaghe duck Green for nearly two years after the beating he give him.

Beyer barely fights his mandatories, while Calzaghe owened all his, then took the IBF title with 18 defences, while Beyer lost his title twice.

Ducked Woods!

Come on he was about to fight Johnson till he was injured and why do you think Warrens got the rights to Woods V Johnson 3?

Kessler was scheduled to fight Tyspko around the summer time instead ,then got injured and is now fighting Beyer.

Reid, Mitchell, Brewer, Lacy, Eubank and Mitchell were better than Beyer. I missed out Woodhall because Beyer beat him. Sheika has a win over Johnson and Calzaghe owned Sheika.

Woods was beaten by Johnson who has a loss to Sheika and so on.

Kessler hasn't proven too much to be considered better than most of Joe' opp, Lucas was shot, Siaca's limited and Mundine fought timid.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:51

lvlarc_uk wrote:It's true Joe Calzaghe ducked Markus Beyer

Just edited your sentence to remove the unproven (albeit not implausible) parts.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:51

lvlarc_uk wrote:It's true Max Joe Calzaghe ducked the great legendary Markus Beyer, also Mikkel Kessler is the greatest SMW of all time. Got it?

Hell yeah I got it.

Pundit likes Danish Bacon and German frankfurt over some real British beef.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:56

Note: I blame too much time on ESB for saying that, wharps my brain!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:58

Max Molyneux wrote:You wouldn't see Calzaghe duck Green for nearly two years after the beating he give him.

You're diverting away from the topic.
Wether Beyer duecked Green is indeed a matter of opinion.
Whether Calzaghe ducekd Beyer is not, it is a proven fact (see above).

Beyer barely fights his mandatories, while Calzaghe owened all his,

Cough cough cough, when did Calzaghe ever fight a "mandatory" except Mggr Mgrydlkafyrtyahcya?

The concept "mandatory" is widely unknown with the WBO.

then took the IBF title with 18 defences, while Beyer lost his title twice.

I guess because Beyer fought opponents who could actually fight a little.

Ducked Woods!

Spot on.

Come on he was about to fight Johnson till he was injured and why do you think Warrens got the rights to Woods V Johnson 3?

He ALWAYS gets injured when he's supposed to fight Johnson - he thinkgs "Glencoffe" a WHAM he has a broken finger. At least.

Kessler was scheduled to fight Tyspko around the summer time instead ,then got injured and is now fighting Beyer.

On October 14, when Calzaghe could allegedly not fight...

Reid, Mitchell, Brewer, Lacy, Eubank and Mitchell were better than Beyer.

But far worse than Beyer, Kessler, Johnson and Woods.

If Calzaghe's resumme would consist of his DUCKED opponents, he would be a sure HOFer.

I missed out Woodhall because Beyer beat him. Sheika has a win over Johnson and Calzaghe owned Sheika.

Ever saw Johnson Sheika, or read a report about it?

Kessler hasn't proven too much to be considered better than most of Joe' opp, Lucas was shot, Siaca's limited and Mundine fought timid.

There is a better way than your lengthy, littered-with-faults, involuntarily-comical explanations: just admit that Joe "the Welsh duckling" Calzaghe isn't anything special.

Cheers, P

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 09 Aug 2006, 18:59

Max Molyneux wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:It's true Max Joe Calzaghe ducked the great legendary Markus Beyer, also Mikkel Kessler is the greatest SMW of all time. Got it?
Hell yeah I got it.

Pundit likes Danish Bacon and German frankfurt over some real British beef.

Wouldn't that be half-italian with a taste of sheep.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:02

Max Molyneux wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:It's true Max Joe Calzaghe ducked the great legendary Markus Beyer, also Mikkel Kessler is the greatest SMW of all time. Got it?
Hell yeah I got it.

Pundit likes Danish Bacon and German frankfurt over some real British beef.

yeah, I keep my distance from mad cows.

And from beef in general if it's prepared by people who don't know what a sauce or a spice is.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:05

Calzaghe said on the Skelton - Williams rematch he was fighting in October so how does he say he can;t?

Calzaghe fought Veite whos not special but a solid opponent.

Beyer got KO'ed by Catley, couldn't catch Colajanni until the last round and took nearly two years till he finally fought the man who gave him nightmares and destroyed Lucas unlike Beyer. I bought up Green because it took him ages to fight his mandatory and with your logic you could say he was ducking him.

Lacy is overated but he wasn't a champ for nothing. Plus the belts belong to the king.

Woods would be given nightmares although I like Woods which is why I don't want them to fight as our number of champs will go down.

But are better and were more proven in their primes.

No, but Johnson has an official loss to Sheika.

Faults? You don't have reports or sources.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:07

dumdane wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:It's true Max Joe Calzaghe ducked the great legendary Markus Beyer, also Mikkel Kessler is the greatest SMW of all time. Got it?
Hell yeah I got it.

Pundit likes Danish Bacon and German frankfurt over some real British beef.
Wouldn't that be half-italian with a taste of sheep.

Calzaghe was born in London so the Welsh bit has a case for being flawed.

yeah, I keep my distance from mad cows.

And from beef in general if it's prepared by people who don't know what a sauce or a spice is.

Calzaghe's a mad cow ready to put the smackdown on the winner of that fight.

You even made Jokes that Joe might of ducked Lacy too before that fight!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:11

Max Molyneux wrote:Calzaghe said on the Skelton - Williams rematch he was fighting in October so how does he say he can;t?

Man is this so difficult?

FWarren said to team Beyer that Calzaghe couldn't fight on October 14.

And now Calzaghe fights on.... October 14.

Necessary implication: Calzaghe could not fight on October 14 AS LONG AS the opponent was Markus Beyer.
Meaning: he wanted no part of Beyer.
Meaning: he ducked Markus Beyer.

I bought up Green because it took him ages to fight his mandatory and with your logic you could say he was ducking him.

This is totally unrelated to "my" logic, or to any logic.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:12

Max Molyneux wrote: You even made Jokes that Joe might of ducked Lacy too before that fight!

Well, it wouldn't have been implausible, would it. Calzaghe has ducked tons of second-rate fighters, why not also Lacy. But I guess Lacy was too taylor-made for him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:16

Well, it wouldn't have been implausible, would it.

Well yeah as you said Lacy was handpicked even though it was a fact that the media and Lacy's people pushed for the fight.

You must of accused Ottke of ducking when you said he needed Calzaghe and now putting the crap onto Calzaghe since Ottke retired.

Funny how Beyer is Kessler's biggest name on his list when it happens.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:27

Max Molyneux wrote: Funny how Beyer is Kessler's biggest name on his list when it happens.

Kessler's biggest name is still Mundine. This is why Kessler is #1 at s-m.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:58

No way Mundine hasn't done more than Beyer to say that.

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 09 Aug 2006, 20:20

pundit wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote: Funny how Beyer is Kessler's biggest name on his list when it happens.
Kessler's biggest name is still Mundine. This is why Kessler is #1 at s-m.

Mundine is f*cking shit....his chin is shit, his skills arnt even that good...wins over a a shot,overated..no chinned middle in echols..and a statue in Green..does not a worldclass fighter make...

JC would rip Kessler to shreds...i see a repeat of the Viet debarcle if Kessler ever had the balls to come to Blighty....

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 09 Aug 2006, 20:23

pundit wrote:
And from beef in general if it's prepared by people who don't know what a sauce or a spice is.

Thats a sure fire way of destroying a perfectly good steak.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 20:41

bigynzing wrote: JC would rip Kessler to shreds...

He would have to fight him first.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 09 Aug 2006, 20:44

Max, why don't you just admit: Calzaghe isn't anything special.

Cheers, P

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 10 Aug 2006, 03:01

pundit wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:No it's fact which your opinion isn't until proven.
As a courtesy, here is the proof again as you have obviously overread it

--------

1) Calzaghe said he couldn't fight on October 14 when the opponent was Beyer.

2) Now it turns out Calzaghe intents to fight EXACTLY on October 14, but an opponent different from Beyer.

3) The only possibility to link 1) and 2) in a logically coherent way is: Calzaghe would not fight on October 14 BECAUSE the opponent would have been Beyer.

Which is exaclty the same as: Calzaghe duck...duck duck...duck duck duck ducked Beyer.

What Calzaghe's done is no different to what Roy Jones got away with and the latter half of Larry Holmes' title reign. Any long reigning champion only faces the right foe at the right time. It is certainly regrettable, all you have to do is look at a fighter like Lorenzo Parra to see how we want all our fighters to be.

I don't buy that he ducked Beyer. Kessler he did avoid, when Kessler wasn't known.

I wouldn't go overboard with he ducked all those guys you mention. I mean it is all easily narrowed down when some of these men fight. If Johnson beats Woods, Calzaghe almost certainly fights Johnson for the IBF belt. In that situation, there's no need to say he ducked Johnson AND Woods.

I do feel part of the problem is that Calzaghe - as capable of excellence as he is - is a prima donna who will do exactly what he wants. Much of the problem seems to be Warren, who seems so adamant not to risk what he has. I'll say that with Calzaghe, it's not out of fear that fights aren't happening. As well as injuries, he is guilty of a total disregard for any fighter who can be considered a peer/challenger etc.

If he would have been like Lennox Lewis (but going to Europe instead of America) his career would have been far more satisfying. But he simply does what he wants - as opposed to what the fans want - though he is still an excellent fighter worth watching when he faces someone good.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Aug 2006, 03:42

In Calzaghe's defence and I am not his greatest fan I think he was due back in September but needed a little more time for his hands to heal. So he's hardly ducking Beyer. Calzaghe would beat Beyer easily.

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 10 Aug 2006, 04:08

nickd wrote:In Calzaghe's defence and I am not his greatest fan I think he was due back in September but needed a little more time for his hands to heal. So he's hardly ducking Beyer. Calzaghe would beat Beyer easily.

That's all good. But if that is the case why wouldn't he fight Beyer in october - since you're saying they BOTH needed the extra time.

Anyway i think Viciousmaussa's argument about Calzaghe being too much of a primadonna and Warren not helping it, is at the core of the matter.

If I was a Calzaghe-fan i'd be so pissed off at them guys. For some reason - with the exception of the Lacy fight - they always seem to come up short of what could be expected.
And more and more indicates that the problem is NOT other fighter's ducking Calzaghe. The real problem is shared somewhere between Calzaghe and Warren.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 10 Aug 2006, 04:58

dumdane wrote:
nickd wrote:In Calzaghe's defence and I am not his greatest fan I think he was due back in September but needed a little more time for his hands to heal. So he's hardly ducking Beyer. Calzaghe would beat Beyer easily.

That's all good. But if that is the case why wouldn't he fight Beyer in october - since you're saying they BOTH needed the extra time.

Anyway i think Viciousmaussa's argument about Calzaghe being too much of a primadonna and Warren not helping it, is at the core of the matter.

If I was a Calzaghe-fan i'd be so pissed off at them guys. For some reason - with the exception of the Lacy fight - they always seem to come up short of what could be expected.
And more and more indicates that the problem is NOT other fighter's ducking Calzaghe. The real problem is shared somewhere between Calzaghe and Warren.

The point I am making is they were planning for Calzaghe to fight in September, then by the time they realised he needed more time Kessler v Beyer was as good as made - that seems to fit in with the time line of events. Nobody can be seriously suggesting Calzaghe is ducking a guy who was knocked out by Glenn Catley!