Lets face it they literally dug this guy up for Evander... the fact that he was fighting someone of this calibre shows how far he's fallen....lvlarc_uk wrote:I was actually quite impressed with Evander. Did not look like a 43 year old in there. Looked no different to a B/C class fighter, like Skelton. I know his opp was a stiff, and it's hard to judge on less that 6 mins of action.
I think it will end in tears for him though.
Trouble is mate, he's promoting his own fights with his own promotional company. He could probably afford to just keep on staging his own fights. At this rate I can see Evander fighting at 60.silkov wrote:Evanders been saying the same thing about being undisputed champion again since the Lewis fights, its sad how deluded he is... I think he'll only stop for good when noone will promote his fights anymore so the future for him is probably a grim one...KOJOE90 wrote:From Fightnews.
I still think he is a spent force at World level even considering todays current crop of Heavyweight Title holders. Holyfield beating a semi-retired journeyman means very little in my eyes, with respect to both fighters.Four-time heavyweight champion Evander Holyfield (39-8-2, 25 KOs) scored an easy second round stoppage of Jeremy Bates (21-12-1, 18 KOs) in front of a crowd of 10,000+ at the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas. Holyfield, coming back from a 21-month layoff and three stright losses, connected easily and often in round one with Bates offering little in return. The 43-year-old Holyfield trapped Bates on the ropes in round two and unleashed a barrage of unanswered punches prompting referee Rafael Ramos to stop the fight at 2:56. It was the third straight loss for Bates.
Holyfield has stated that he wants a title shot by 2007 and by the next Olympics in 2008 he wants to be the undisputated Champion of the World again.
I wish the guy well but I have a horrible feeling about this once fine warriors comeback.
Of course they did, that's the way to build him back up, Foreman did exactly the same. Not worse than Skeltons recent up tho, Suren Kalachyan.silkov wrote:Lets face it they literally dug this guy up for Evander... the fact that he was fighting someone of this calibre shows how far he's fallen....lvlarc_uk wrote:I was actually quite impressed with Evander. Did not look like a 43 year old in there. Looked no different to a B/C class fighter, like Skelton. I know his opp was a stiff, and it's hard to judge on less that 6 mins of action.
I think it will end in tears for him though.
Well at this point I could see Skelton pounding Holifield if they were to fight.... if he carries on Evander will eventually get a fight against one of the 'top' guys and I dread to think about him fighting someone like Samuel Peter or Klitchenko... he'll take a pasting and be lucky to get out in one peice... the worst thing about Holifield is that his heart and fitness will make him tough enough and still competitive enough to stop him being blasted out early by the top guys and allow him to take what will probably be a long and steady beating till he's finally stopped or more likely carried out....lvlarc_uk wrote:Of course they did, that's the way to build him back up, Foreman did exactly the same. Not worse than Skeltons recent up tho, Suren Kalachyan.silkov wrote:Lets face it they literally dug this guy up for Evander... the fact that he was fighting someone of this calibre shows how far he's fallen....lvlarc_uk wrote:I was actually quite impressed with Evander. Did not look like a 43 year old in there. Looked no different to a B/C class fighter, like Skelton. I know his opp was a stiff, and it's hard to judge on less that 6 mins of action.
I think it will end in tears for him though.
I'll upload the 2nd round to youtube in a few mins.
ESPN are reporting that Samil Sam will be Holyfield's next opp, expected in November.glahn wrote:Holyfiels is deluded if he thinke he can hang with even the weakest of the alphabet champions at this point. In fact he would most likely get ko'd by someone like Paolo Vidoz or Samil Sam. It's shameful that he's being allowed to continue fighting.
the major difference is that Foreman had over 10 years out of the ring, and really had only had two or three hard fights. When Foreman quit, it wasn't because he was physically in decline, it was that mentally he wasn't right any more after the beating from Ellis (it was Ellis wasn't it?).lvlarc_uk wrote:Of course they did, that's the way to build him back up, Foreman did exactly the same. Not worse than Skeltons recent up tho, Suren Kalachyan.silkov wrote:Lets face it they literally dug this guy up for Evander... the fact that he was fighting someone of this calibre shows how far he's fallen....lvlarc_uk wrote:I was actually quite impressed with Evander. Did not look like a 43 year old in there. Looked no different to a B/C class fighter, like Skelton. I know his opp was a stiff, and it's hard to judge on less that 6 mins of action.
I think it will end in tears for him though.
I'll upload the 2nd round to youtube in a few mins.
Agree the differences are noticeable. Young? I recall reading that after the fight, he came close to death later in his dressing room.jamesmcdonnell wrote: the major difference is that Foreman had over 10 years out of the ring, and really had only had two or three hard fights. When Foreman quit, it wasn't because he was physically in decline, it was that mentally he wasn't right any more after the beating from Ellis (it was Ellis wasn't it?).
Physically Foreman was very much unscathed, unlike Holy who is plagued with injury, and who has taken a phenomenal number of blows in his career. Prior to retiring, the only guys who beat up on Foreman were Lyle and Ali as I recall, most other guys got battered senseless before they could do any damage.
Foreman also never relied on his reflexes and cute counterpunching, and he was a huge heavyweight. Evander isn't even a natural heavyweight, and fighting on at the age of almost 43 giving away significant height, weight, reach and nowadays speed advantages is madness.
But it was like hitting a punch bag... its easy to throw and land punches when theres nothing coming back... Henry Cooper could probably have done a simular job as Evander last night... but its really meaningless... the guy was no more than a walking punch bag and thats what he was paid to be...lvlarc_uk wrote:Agree the differences are noticeable. Young? I recall reading that after the fight, he came close to death later in his dressing room.jamesmcdonnell wrote: the major difference is that Foreman had over 10 years out of the ring, and really had only had two or three hard fights. When Foreman quit, it wasn't because he was physically in decline, it was that mentally he wasn't right any more after the beating from Ellis (it was Ellis wasn't it?).
Physically Foreman was very much unscathed, unlike Holy who is plagued with injury, and who has taken a phenomenal number of blows in his career. Prior to retiring, the only guys who beat up on Foreman were Lyle and Ali as I recall, most other guys got battered senseless before they could do any damage.
Foreman also never relied on his reflexes and cute counterpunching, and he was a huge heavyweight. Evander isn't even a natural heavyweight, and fighting on at the age of almost 43 giving away significant height, weight, reach and nowadays speed advantages is madness.
Holyfield has made the decision to fight on, and it's his decision to make. If he has any chance of contention, then he has to build confidence and rid the ring rust from his 2 year layoff, which should benefit him, by slowly progressing.
I don't think he has a plausible chance to beat any of the current champs, but I'll definetly be cheering him on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Zh6In_4w8
Thoughts?
I counted 33 unanswered punches within 18 seconds that caused the stoppage, not bad for a 43 year old!
It may of been meaningless to us, but it wasn't for him, he needs those wins. Stop being so negative!silkov wrote:
But it was like hitting a punch bag... its easy to throw and land punches when theres nothing coming back... Henry Cooper could probably have done a simular job as Evander last night... but its really meaningless... the guy was no more than a walking punch bag and thats what he was paid to be...
Negative??... give me a break, ...negative is seeing Evander being spoon fed in 10 to 15 years time and having to be told what his name is, negative is ending up like Greg Page... theres too many people who get a thrill out of seeing faded exchamps try and turn back the clock and give away the what remaining brain cells that they have left in the process...lvlarc_uk wrote:It may of been meaningless to us, but it wasn't for him, he needs those wins. Stop being so negative!silkov wrote:
But it was like hitting a punch bag... its easy to throw and land punches when theres nothing coming back... Henry Cooper could probably have done a simular job as Evander last night... but its really meaningless... the guy was no more than a walking punch bag and thats what he was paid to be...
Cooper would of been KO'd by that big right
Well they said that Ali, Quarry. Page, Chacon and Benitez were all fit to fight on and look what happened to them...lvlarc_uk wrote:Not a thrill, I too wish he stayed retired, but he's made his choice and it's his choice to make. He's obviously healthy enough to fight on, since he's passed his medicals. I've acknowledged this and I'm just giving my 2 cents. Relax
lvlarc_uk wrote:ESPN are reporting that Samil Sam will be Holyfield's next opp, expected in November.glahn wrote:Holyfiels is deluded if he thinke he can hang with even the weakest of the alphabet champions at this point. In fact he would most likely get ko'd by someone like Paolo Vidoz or Samil Sam. It's shameful that he's being allowed to continue fighting.
Holyfield V Bates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Zh6In_4w8
James, I think you mean the late Jimmy Young.jamesmcdonnell wrote:When Foreman quit, it wasn't because he was physically in decline, it was that mentally he wasn't right any more after the beating from Ellis (it was Ellis wasn't it?).
Holyfield had a lot taken out of him after the Bowe trilogy, he was at one o clock when he fought Tyson who was at the same stage himself, if not further past it.bennie wrote:Twenty years ago, Evander Holyfield slugged it out with Dwight Qawi for 15 breathtaking rounds to become the first of a celebrated group of American Los Angeles Olympians to win a world title. He went on to prove himself arguably the greatest cruiserweight of all time, before making his way up to heavyweight and surviving a notable war with Mike "Dynamite" Dokes on the way to the richest prize in sport in 1990.
Since then, the wars have continued for the remarkable Georgia warrior, who tomorrow night takes on Jeremy Bates in a 10-rounder in Dallas.
British fans could be forgiven for thinking Evander is taking on a tennis player, Bates is so unknown as a fighter. Last time out, the 32-year-old Kentuckian, laughably nicknamed "The Beast", was stopped in two by perennial fringe contender Ray Austin in Cleveland in April. He was also stopped in two by Kirk Johnson. In fact, he's been stopped every time he's stepped up. If this was a last hurrah for Evander, the small, aggressive, wide-open Bates would fit the bill perfectly. Regrettably, Evander sees this as a tune up for something bigger and we have to judge his display in lieu of a murky future.
Holyfield is old - so old one of his former opponents recently died of a heart attack. Banned from boxing in New York for his own safety, Holyfield is convinced he can still make it in a heavyweight division that has changed beyond all comprehension from his 90's heyday. Today you have to be European to succeed. Holyfield is just one of a dire collection of American heavies, possessing baggage that wouldn't get him through an airport's doors let alone on a plane.
David Haye reckoned the ex-champion's speech was deteriorating in a trashy piece in The Sun - a man hoping to tread the Holyfield path (hoping, indeed). Bernard Hopkins also advised Holyfield to quit - the ultimate role model for boxers over 40 (Holyfield is 43). It's a tricky business. For every Tunney, you have have a million Holyfields.
Nobody is convinced against their will.
Evander hasn't fought since Larry Donald comprehensively outscored him in a 12-rounder at Madison Square Garden in November 2004. Before that, he was outclassed and stopped in nine by the trash-talking, quick-tempered James Toney. And he shrugged off the pain of a torn rotator cuff to last 12 rounds with slippery Chris Byrd in a crack at the IBF heavyweight title in December 2002.
He hasn't won a fight since he butted Hasim Rahman out of their June 2002 encounter.
This at least defines his clash with Bates. Holyfield has been losing but losing to the best (cough, cough). But if he loses or simply looks bad against the hapless Bates tomorrow, there can be no excuses for the man who has fought more world champions than any other (Qawi, Tyrone Booze, Ricky Parkey, Ossie Ocasio, Carlos DeLeon, Pinklon Thomas, Dokes, James Douglas, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Bobby Czyz, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, John Ruiz, Rahman, Byrd and Toney).
Putting it simply: the ultimate overachiever will have underachieved against a nobody.
Bates has a reasonable 21-11-1 [18] record but hails from America's Midwest, an area notorious for gas station attendants, night watchmen and janitors, all of whom happen to box. Oklahoma's Jerry "Wimpy" Halstead retired in 1997 with a record 83-19-1 (63) but was hammered in four by Herbie Hide in Norwich in 1993. Missouri's Rob Calloway has a record of 58-7-1 (45) but had his jaw broken by non-punching Audley Harrison at Brentford in 2003.
So there's no telling how bad Bates will be tomorrow. Expect Holyfield to do a number on him, just as the faded Roy Jones did a number on Prince Badi Ajamu last month. But we all know Jones and Holyfield are finished in top flight.