BoxRec

silkov wrote: and its quite amusing that such a post is written by Brock who is the biggest nutthugger of Marcinao in this solar system of ours!... but then Rocky is ok isnt he, ...so hug away Brock!... 8)

was marciano a quitter? did marciano not beat the best of his era?




im shocked you rank marciano at # 10. i have a feeling you put him there so people wont think ur rankings are biased and ridiculous. i dont think u really believe hes # 10 greatest heavyweight of all time. you critisize marciano at every chance you get. you never praise him other than saying he can beat tyson cause he has too much "heart" for tyson(a fighter who u hate even more than marciano)


trying to degrade marciano and defend vitali makes u sound like an idiot. marciano was a boxing legend. vitali was not. deal with it .




* funny how silk calls me the biggest nuthugger in solar sustem even though i rank marciano # 5 greatest heavyweight of all time. so the people who rank marciano # 1...what does that make them?

someone should tell Brock that Marcinao would'nt have stayed unbeaten had he boxed in more recent times... he certainly would have been stopped in his 2nd fight with Charles... (and should have been too) would that have made him a quitter???.

boxed in more recent times? so vitali, ruiz, bryd, tua, oquendo, etc would beat a peak 1951-52 rocky marciano??

he certainly would have been stopped in his 2nd fight with Charles... (and should have been too) would that have made him a quitter??

COULDA WOULDA SHOULDA! you can make all these bullshit "what ifs" but facts speak for themselves. fact remains marciano beat the shit out of charles for 7 rounds, suffered a fluke cut, then beat the shit out of charles some more with his nose split in half and knocked charles out with 24 seconds left in the round. you think vitali could ever suffer such a bad injury and comeback to beat his opponent when he is on the brink of losing??? this is what makes marciano a true champion.

facts remain marciano KO 8 charles




bryd TKO 10 vitali

silkov wrote:I don't see anyone criticising Marciano for retiring when he did, even though there was plenty of interesting fights coming up?... oh he had a bad back!!! ohhh his nose hurt!!!... yeh sure!... maybe he was scared of fighting Floyd Patterson or some of the others coming up?!!. Hell he even backed out of a comeback fight with Ingmar for christs sake!!... :x :x

why would marciano be scared of fighting a 20 year old kid who had not yet even proved himself an elite world class heavyweight?

others coming up? i would like to hear who? i would like to hear how marciano was "afraid" of all these men


the marciano-johannsen fight was blocked off by cus D amato forcing the rematch clause on the patterson-johannsen fight. so marciano couldnt have fought him if he wanted too.




hey silk why dont u tell us how ezzard charles, harold johnson, rex layne and others could all knockout bob satterfield with one punch but rocky marciano would have to "breakdown" satterfield to stop him??

the facts remain klitschko did lose to byrd and lennox.
what could of been is not was.the record books show thos as losses for
vitali.
i also agree that he did not have the best competition.was he an all time great?no way.was he a decent heavyweight and one of the top 5 after lennox retirement?absolutely.
i am neither a hater or a nut hugger for vitali.just a realist.
and reality is vitali lost to both byrd and lennox.and never beat a true
top 5 contender in his career.

Vitali lost to Lennox Lewis. How he was doing is not really relevant. Moreover, Lewis was at the heaviest of his career and clearly not at his best. John Ruiz actually has a more impressive resume than Vitali so one might rank him higher. Vitali lacks any really outstanding wins.

Decagon wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:boxed in more recent times? so vitali, ruiz, bryd, tua, oquendo, etc would beat a peak 1951-52 rocky marciano??

Marciano had trouble with slick boxers like LaStarza and Walcott. It stands to reason that Byrd might give him some trouble. If Oquendo had a better beard, he might give Marciano trouble, too. It's also hard to gague how well Marciano would do against a fighter of Quitali's stature, since Marciano didn't fight a talented, larger fighter.

walcott was an ATG top 20 heavyweight of all time. he was more than just a slickster, he is one of the greatest ring technicians in heavyweight history and he was a hard puncher too.



rocky marciano dominated roland lastarza causing permant physical damage to roland.



are u honestly argueing these guys today could beat rocky marciano? u must have lost it dec.



what makes these large fighters today talented? i dont see the talent.

It's also hard to gague how well Marciano would do against a fighter of Quitali's stature, since Marciano didn't fight a talented, larger fighter

who did vitali beat that ever compares to a prime rocky marciano?


marciano did beat a talented large fighter joe louis.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

pundit wrote:

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Klitschko never proved himself the best in the division. He did not fight the guys he would have needed to fight to establish this.

Hmmm..... there was noone close to Lennox Lewis' level for years, and then Vitali wins four out of six rounds against him, rocks him a couple of times, and can't finish the job only because of cuts (and being stopped on cuts is always unfortunate).

For me there is no doubt Vitali was the #1 after Lennox' retirement....

P

cant finish the job? more like lennox was starting to get to vitali and vitali was going to quit in the late rounds again

woulda coulda shoulda

FACT: the six rounds were damn impressive.

MEISINGER wrote:the facts remain klitschko did lose to byrd and lennox.
what could of been is not was.the record books show thos as losses for
vitali.

As if the "record books" would be all that count for the assessment of a fighter.

Buddy, you can do better than that.

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Vitali lost to Lennox Lewis. How he was doing is not really relevant.

OF COURSE it's relevant.

I don't think Vitali's performance against Lewis helps him much in comparison with his main rivals. Losing to Lewis does not prove Vitali is the world's second best heavyweight. Lewis was 37 years old and at the heaviest of his career when he fought Vitali. Clearly this was not a peak version of Lewis. Yet Vitali still lost. Hasim Rahman actually managed to beat a younger Lewis than Vitali did.

Ruiz managed to hold his own against a faded Holyfield. This is more impressive than Vitali lasting 6 rounds against Lewis.

Cojimar 1945 wrote:I don't think Vitali's performance against Lewis helps him much in comparison with his main rivals. Losing to Lewis does not prove Vitali is the world's second best heavyweight. Lewis was 37 years old and at the heaviest of his career when he fought Vitali. Clearly this was not a peak version of Lewis. Yet Vitali still lost. Hasim Rahman actually managed to beat a younger Lewis than Vitali did.

.... with a lucky punch. But he lost every complete round that he stood in the same ring with LL. In contrast, Vitali fought tooth and nail with LL for six rounds.

Ruiz managed to hold his own against a faded Holyfield. This is more impressive than Vitali lasting 6 rounds against Lewis.

I respectfully disagree.

I'm arguing styles, Brockton. LaStarza won five rounds out of 10, and lost because he was knocked down.

marciano was NOWHERE NEAR HIS PRIME when he first fought roland. marciano completley dominated roland in the rematch in 53. lastarza said this version of marciano was 500% better.

Byrd was also tougher than LaStarza.

tougher?? HOW??? lastarza got up from 2 knockdowns to beat 15-0 big time prospect 6'3 215lb gene gosney by knockout and he fought on with broken blood vessels in his arms and didnt give up vs rocky marciano

I don't see terribly much difference between Byrd and Walcott,

walcott was a FAR FAR FAR greater puncher than byrd.....he was much stronger, much better jab, and he was the all around better boxer.

Decagon wrote:Again, which four rounds did you give to Vitali?

Would have to watch it again.

pundit why do u disagree? lennox was just as gone in 2003 vs vitali as evander was when he fought ruiz. ruiz deserves more props for his preformances vs evander.



lennox looked AWFUL in the vitali fight. he was ready to be taken. he was old, he looked horribly out of shape, very lathargic, much slower, his punches lacked sharpness and snap and he still beat vitali!! rahman knocked out a younger better lennox


frank bruno outboxed a prime lennox for 7 rounds. he deserves more respect than quitschkos preformace

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:pundit why do u disagree? lennox was just as gone in 2003 vs vitali as evander was when he fought ruiz. ruiz deserves more props for his preformances vs evander.

I don't think so at all. Holyfield was seriously on the way down, while LL did't show many sign of deterioration except that he came in too heavily. Besides, LL vs. Vitali was 6 rounds of gripping drama, quite a different number from the awful bearhug-headbutt showdown that Ruiz-Holyfield was.

lennox looked AWFUL in the vitali fight. he was ready to be taken. he was old, he looked horribly out of shape, very lathargic, much slower, his punches lacked sharpness and snap and he still beat vitali!! rahman knocked out a younger better lennox

Don't mix up legit arguments with BS. Rahman lost every single round he was in the ring with LL. He basically wasn't competitive. One lucky punch granted him a gift-victory and that's all.

frank bruno outboxed a prime lennox for 7 rounds. he deserves more respect than quitschkos preformace

He held his own with his jab for a few rounds, but he was far from "outboxing" Lennox.

pundit wrote:He held his own with his jab for a few rounds, but he was far from "outboxing" Lennox.

he was more than outboxing lewis, lewis was in real trouble when the fight turned on its head. bruno`s ramrod jab dominated the fight up to that point and lewis was actually backed into a corner and was bent double looking at the canvas when he swung a desperate haymaker trying to keep big frank off him.
it was just franks luck that such a lucky shot thrown blind caught him flush on the chin.

What's this 2 weeks notice bullshit for Lewis?

Lewis was already training to fight Kirk Johnson...

Just because he found out that he'd have a different opponent 2 weeks before the fight, does not mean he only trained for 2 weeks.

Vitali Klitschko couldn't do what Rahman did 3 times, Arthur Weathers did once, and Nate Tubbs had done with one punch. So much for a guy who was put in Guiness Book for his KO streak.

Whilst Silkov is obviously enjoying baiting a few posters here I am trying to find a reason why this thread ever came into being (other than the one he is claiming).

There are plenty of average HWs out there and there are plenty of overrated HWs out there, in fact VK generally gets very little attention. You'd have to try quite hard to find someone saying anything that glorified him. So either Brock-o has a problem with him for some reason that I don't understand, or he just wanted to use his Quitschko pun one more time in case we had forgotten it, or maybe he thinks his response to this guy was so damned witty that he'd just die if he didn't share it with us all.

I really can't understand why there are so many Vitali haters. What's so bad about the guy ? Liston quit against Ali, Frazier quit against Ali, Robinson quit against Maxim. Duran quit against Leonard. Does having enough big wins on your record entitle you to quit in a fight, no questions asked ? Unlike Vitali, none of those guys required surgery afterwards.

Absolute funniest future scenario for all you Vitali haters is if Valuev wins 6 more fights and retires. Then you'll be writing thousand word essays explaining how Marciano was still a better fighter. People know about that NC, but you'll still have to explain it on a daily basis.

Seamus wrote:I really can't understand why there are so many Vitali haters. What's so bad about the guy ?

He's a PhD, is articulate, went into poltics..... these things don't go down well with some boxing fans. It's not for nothing that senseless Klitschko-haters and senseless Tunney-haters typically overlap.

pundit wrote:

Seamus wrote:I really can't understand why there are so many Vitali haters. What's so bad about the guy ?

He's a PhD, is articulate, went into poltics..... these things don't go down well with some boxing fans. It's not for nothing that senseless Klitschko-haters and senseless Tunney-haters typically overlap.

"went into politics"
Maybe that's the reason.

Holyfield may not have been quite the fighter Lewis was but he was certainly close to Lewis level. The fact that Ruiz beat a faded Holyfield seems more impressive than Vitali losing to a faded Lewis. As other people have pointed out, Frank Bruno was hoding his own against a younger Lewis for the first six rounds.

Decagon wrote:If the Holyfield of the second Lewis fight fought the Lewis of the Klitschko fight, he'd win.

holyfield of the second lewis fight did beat holyfield

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Decagon wrote:If the Holyfield of the second Lewis fight fought the Lewis of the Klitschko fight, he'd win.

holyfield of the second lewis fight did beat holyfield

I'm not looking to show anyone up here but you have it worded as if Holyfield fought himself.