Mine was caused in Judo and I couldnt lift the arm and had to have surgery and it took about 6 months for it to recover and for me to get full movement back and its never been 100% like it was before and I still get twinges in it... so this is no BS injury and I certainly wouldnt have carried on in a fight with such an injury... aside from being hurt by the opponent carrying on in the fight would have made the injury worse and worse and probably did... if Vitali had carried on that night his career could have ended there and then.
All you guys calling him a quitter should be ashamed, you dont know what you're talking about, none of you have been in the ring in that situation, so how can you judge Vitali?... answer, you cant!...
Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time great?
re
>>>so this is no BS injury and I certainly wouldnt have carried on in a fight with such an injury<<<
I guess that's which you sympathize so much with Vitali! There were times when my arm literally felt like it was going to fall off...the pain was very deep...but even though it hurt like hell I was not going to give up the mound for the final two innings of a game I was pitching a three shut out in and I didn't come out. It's a serious injury, but it is not as painful as you try to make it out for Vitali...when my shoulder was really in serious pain I couldn't hide it well...the pain shows in a persons face when it is that painful yet Vitali showed very little emotion about the shoulder that was supposedly hurting him so bad that he just had to quit!
I guess that's which you sympathize so much with Vitali! There were times when my arm literally felt like it was going to fall off...the pain was very deep...but even though it hurt like hell I was not going to give up the mound for the final two innings of a game I was pitching a three shut out in and I didn't come out. It's a serious injury, but it is not as painful as you try to make it out for Vitali...when my shoulder was really in serious pain I couldn't hide it well...the pain shows in a persons face when it is that painful yet Vitali showed very little emotion about the shoulder that was supposedly hurting him so bad that he just had to quit!
re
>>>All you guys calling him a quitter should be ashamed, you dont know what you're talking about, none of you have been in the ring in that situation, so how can you judge Vitali?... answer, you cant!...<<<
I wasn't in the ring, but I would bet the title of my Jeep Cherokee to the title of someone else's vehicle of similar cost that it is a lot more painful to pitch with a badly torn rotator cuff than it is to go a couple of rounds with one!!!
You should be ashamed for calling Tyson a quitter...you don't know the kind of pain he was dealing with before he quit
I wasn't in the ring, but I would bet the title of my Jeep Cherokee to the title of someone else's vehicle of similar cost that it is a lot more painful to pitch with a badly torn rotator cuff than it is to go a couple of rounds with one!!!
You should be ashamed for calling Tyson a quitter...you don't know the kind of pain he was dealing with before he quit
Re: re
Read my posts, the injury varies greatly in severity... why is that so hard for you to understand?... if you had a bad tear it would have been physically impossible for you to pitch because your arm would just cease to function... its got nothing to do with how brave you are, if you pitched with it then you had a small tear at the most... Vitali's tear probably got worse as the fight went on till he couldnt move the arm at all... it would have been madness to carry on simple as that!barry wrote:>>>All you guys calling him a quitter should be ashamed, you dont know what you're talking about, none of you have been in the ring in that situation, so how can you judge Vitali?... answer, you cant!...<<<
I wasn't in the ring, but I would bet the title of my Jeep Cherokee to the title of someone else's vehicle of similar cost that it is a lot more painful to pitch with a badly torn rotator cuff than it is to go a couple of rounds with one!!!
Re: re
Tyson quit a number of times... I dont see you going around calling him a quitter though... Vitali didnt try to get out of any fights by eating his opponent... he never attacked any of his opponets like a dog, outside the ring either... Tyson has been a disgrace to boxing....barry wrote:>>>All you guys calling him a quitter should be ashamed, you dont know what you're talking about, none of you have been in the ring in that situation, so how can you judge Vitali?... answer, you cant!...<<<
I wasn't in the ring, but I would bet the title of my Jeep Cherokee to the title of someone else's vehicle of similar cost that it is a lot more painful to pitch with a badly torn rotator cuff than it is to go a couple of rounds with one!!!
You should be ashamed for calling Tyson a quitter...you don't know the kind of pain he was dealing with before he quit
re
>>>if you had a bad tear it would have been physically impossible for you to pitch because your arm would just cease to function<<<
Well I had, actually still do have it, though it has healed over the years crappy with scar tissue, but it was a very bad tear and it most certainly was not impossible for me to pitch...in fact I pitched pretty damn good in spite of it...I wish I would have chose to take care of it then I may have actually been able to go somewhere...at least on a college scholarship, but as a result I ruined my arm, but I most certainly did not ever quit...and it was a horrible tear...And juding from the movements and actions of Vitali following the quit-job I gurantee that it was as bad as Vitali's...probably much worse...now I know it's hard for the Quitschko-Squad to realize that Vitali actually punked out whene a kid didn't...and I most certainly am not the only person who has pitched through the same kind of injury, not by a long shot and the same goes for fighters as well...well fighters with guts galore!
Well I had, actually still do have it, though it has healed over the years crappy with scar tissue, but it was a very bad tear and it most certainly was not impossible for me to pitch...in fact I pitched pretty damn good in spite of it...I wish I would have chose to take care of it then I may have actually been able to go somewhere...at least on a college scholarship, but as a result I ruined my arm, but I most certainly did not ever quit...and it was a horrible tear...And juding from the movements and actions of Vitali following the quit-job I gurantee that it was as bad as Vitali's...probably much worse...now I know it's hard for the Quitschko-Squad to realize that Vitali actually punked out whene a kid didn't...and I most certainly am not the only person who has pitched through the same kind of injury, not by a long shot and the same goes for fighters as well...well fighters with guts galore!
re
>>>Vitali didnt try to get out of any fights by eating his opponent... <<<
No, he just did it the old-fashioned, easiest way...he quit like a sissy!
>>>Tyson quit a number of times... I dont see you going around calling him a quitter though... <<<
Jesus, you really are clueless...check out below...which is just one of the several times in which I have stated that Tyson quit...twice...which this is from this very thread...I stated it several other times in other threads as well!
Which this was in response to the very same lame-ass claim about how no one is calling Tyson a quitter. The same bogus and very untrue claim that you keep repeating over and over and over and over and over and over again. You seem to live in your own little world, but if you don't come back down to earth a bit you're going to float right out of the fuking galaxy!
---Not one person ever said anything about Tyson other than he quit...on a couple of occasions----
As to the topic...I'm done...geez, it's like talking with my brothers kids!
No, he just did it the old-fashioned, easiest way...he quit like a sissy!
>>>Tyson quit a number of times... I dont see you going around calling him a quitter though... <<<
Jesus, you really are clueless...check out below...which is just one of the several times in which I have stated that Tyson quit...twice...which this is from this very thread...I stated it several other times in other threads as well!
Which this was in response to the very same lame-ass claim about how no one is calling Tyson a quitter. The same bogus and very untrue claim that you keep repeating over and over and over and over and over and over again. You seem to live in your own little world, but if you don't come back down to earth a bit you're going to float right out of the fuking galaxy!
---Not one person ever said anything about Tyson other than he quit...on a couple of occasions----
As to the topic...I'm done...geez, it's like talking with my brothers kids!
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
silkov wrote:Mine was caused in Judo and I couldnt lift the arm and had to have surgery and it took about 6 months for it to recover and for me to get full movement back and its never been 100% like it was before and I still get twinges in it... so this is no BS injury and I certainly wouldnt have carried on in a fight with such an injury... aside from being hurt by the opponent carrying on in the fight would have made the injury worse and worse and probably did... if Vitali had carried on that night his career could have ended there and then.
All you guys calling him a quitter should be ashamed, you dont know what you're talking about, none of you have been in the ring in that situation, so how can you judge Vitali?... answer, you cant!...
thats because ur not a warrior. i hurt my hand badly in a wrestling match........couldnt move it.......it killed. however there was one period left i was up 9-1 and the winner of this match would qualify for new englands and go for 3rd place at states and the loser would not qualify to compete next weekend at new englands. so wut did i do??? i sucked it up and it killed i couldnt move it and i sucked it up for those 3 minutes to win 9-4 and because of that match i qualified for new englands. i injury defaulted and took 4th at states and couldnt wrestle at new englands but to this day i dont regret doing what i did. i am a warrior.......qualifying for new englands meant the world for me. even though i couldnt compete next week at new englands.....im glad i at least qualifed for new englands by NOT QUITTING in the match( i would have regretted the rest of my life if i quit in the middle of a match, never have and never will)
* ps found out i had broken my hand. i sucked it up with 1 arm in WRESTLING and won.....and qualifed for new englands. hell it wasnt like a boxing match where i could stay away and coverup......ur not allowed to do that in wrestling. vitali could have easily survived the last 2 rounds vs feather fisted bryd
it wasnt just a match, it was LIFE OR DEATH. IT WAS A MATCH TO QUALIFY FOR NEW ENGLANDS!
like quitali vs bryd, it was LIFE OR DEATH!! vitali was defending his title. its life and death. you gotta want to be champion, doesnt the title mean anything? i knoqw guys who would die just to win a championship
VITALI IS NOT A WARRIOR! HE LACKS TOUGHNESS!
Re: re
I'm guessing you didn't have a 6'1 200lb man punching you in the face at the time though, did you? Probably would have made a slight difference.barry wrote: I wasn't in the ring, but I would bet the title of my Jeep Cherokee to the title of someone else's vehicle of similar cost that it is a lot more painful to pitch with a badly torn rotator cuff than it is to go a couple of rounds with one!!!
Lol you cant judge someone for not being a warrior. Every injury is different . I dont think Vitali is a quitter, he retired in the Byrd fight due to injury, whether you guys feel the injury should not have made him retire, well that is just matter of opinion. During the Lews fight he had a very bad cut, when the fight was stopped he was very angry and wanted to continue, to me that shows how much of a warrior he was. He had to retire from boxing because of injury, not because he quit. Again comes down to opinion, and thats mine 
Last edited by Trent on 08 Sep 2006, 00:36, edited 1 time in total.
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DonCorleone
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 31 Aug 2006, 05:14
BARRY. Remember this? I have been at work for 12 hours, and come home to find that you have locked the previous thread!
Quote:
'Typical statement of the Klitschko-lovers, but what I remember is that Quitschko did his best "No Mas" imitation and quit in a bout that he was winning, but a bout that was looking more and more like he would be knocked out in, so instead of being put down, he takes the coward route and quits with an injury that is not all that painful to begin with!
thats pretty spiteful Barry. How could anyone conclude anything from this other than that you harbour HATE towards Mr Klitschko. Go back to the thread, it was a pretty civil debate until you put this up.
No matter how many excuses some of you Quitchko nut-huggers
again, you introduce insults to the thread, this time pre-empting anyone with a little sympathy for Vitaly.
might want to bring up the fact of the matter is this...when the going got tough Vitali quit instead of gutting it out and his reason for quitting was due to Chris Byrd, so no matter how much you try to tell yourself that the bout really should have been a win, it will never be a win...it will be a technical knockout in which the giant Klitschko quit against the much, much smaller and very light-hitting Chris Byrd and as a result Chris Byrd had the best claim of being number one and that is FACT...not the fictional fairy-tales that the Quitschko-lovers like to make up!
Sorry Barry, I know you locked the thread for a reason, but I had to respond.
I'm sure you will throw more insults my way now.............or you could lock this thread too.
Quote:
'Typical statement of the Klitschko-lovers, but what I remember is that Quitschko did his best "No Mas" imitation and quit in a bout that he was winning, but a bout that was looking more and more like he would be knocked out in, so instead of being put down, he takes the coward route and quits with an injury that is not all that painful to begin with!
thats pretty spiteful Barry. How could anyone conclude anything from this other than that you harbour HATE towards Mr Klitschko. Go back to the thread, it was a pretty civil debate until you put this up.
No matter how many excuses some of you Quitchko nut-huggers
again, you introduce insults to the thread, this time pre-empting anyone with a little sympathy for Vitaly.
might want to bring up the fact of the matter is this...when the going got tough Vitali quit instead of gutting it out and his reason for quitting was due to Chris Byrd, so no matter how much you try to tell yourself that the bout really should have been a win, it will never be a win...it will be a technical knockout in which the giant Klitschko quit against the much, much smaller and very light-hitting Chris Byrd and as a result Chris Byrd had the best claim of being number one and that is FACT...not the fictional fairy-tales that the Quitschko-lovers like to make up!
Sorry Barry, I know you locked the thread for a reason, but I had to respond.
I'm sure you will throw more insults my way now.............or you could lock this thread too.
I think it was wrong to lock the threads. Lots of people were throwing insults around but they weren't that bad. We had a lot of action on the forum with plenty of viewpoints. I also wanted to agree with Dec's statement that rankings and who you think would win are 2 different things.
Having re-read it all I think everyone was in agreement that VK was/is not an ATG. Some thought he was good, others not so good.
It's a shame the phrase 'nut-huggers' got used so much because it sounds like a middle-class suburban teenager doing his best to be street. My guess is that most posters are too old to get away with aping today's 'yoof' and I come here to get away from the banality of all that cr*p.
Having re-read it all I think everyone was in agreement that VK was/is not an ATG. Some thought he was good, others not so good.
It's a shame the phrase 'nut-huggers' got used so much because it sounds like a middle-class suburban teenager doing his best to be street. My guess is that most posters are too old to get away with aping today's 'yoof' and I come here to get away from the banality of all that cr*p.
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pundit
- Heavyweight
I agree with you. No one here ever claimed that Vitali was an all-time great. The thing is though that as soon as someone writes something remotely positive about Vitali -- like Vitali was a decent heavyweight in an era short of decent heavyweights -- hell breaks loose. It's like stepping on a landmine.Ezzard wrote:I think it was wrong to lock the threads. Lots of people were throwing insults around but they weren't that bad. We had a lot of action on the forum with plenty of viewpoints. I also wanted to agree with Dec's statement that rankings and who you think would win are 2 different things.
Having re-read it all I think everyone was in agreement that VK was/is not an ATG. Some thought he was good, others not so good.
It's a shame the phrase 'nut-huggers' got used so much because it sounds like a middle-class suburban teenager doing his best to be street. My guess is that most posters are too old to get away with aping today's 'yoof' and I come here to get away from the banality of all that cr*p.
Anyway, the locked thread was good fun as long as it lasted, but its informational content was rather thin.
I suggest we all just move on.
Cheers, P
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DonCorleone
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 31 Aug 2006, 05:14
Aye. Pundit Man speak wisely.pundit wrote:I agree with you. No one here ever claimed that Vitali was an all-time great. The thing is though that as soon as someone writes something remotely positive about Vitali -- like Vitali was a decent heavyweight in an era short of decent heavyweights -- hell breaks loose. It's like stepping on a landmine.Ezzard wrote:I think it was wrong to lock the threads. Lots of people were throwing insults around but they weren't that bad. We had a lot of action on the forum with plenty of viewpoints. I also wanted to agree with Dec's statement that rankings and who you think would win are 2 different things.
Having re-read it all I think everyone was in agreement that VK was/is not an ATG. Some thought he was good, others not so good.
It's a shame the phrase 'nut-huggers' got used so much because it sounds like a middle-class suburban teenager doing his best to be street. My guess is that most posters are too old to get away with aping today's 'yoof' and I come here to get away from the banality of all that cr*p.
Anyway, the locked thread was good fun as long as it lasted, but its informational content was rather thin.
I suggest we all just move on.
Cheers, P
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pundit
- Heavyweight
With some help you managed a reasonably correct statement, bud.Decagon wrote:Actually, all hell breaks loose when someone suggests that Vitali was a better heavyweight than Byrd in spite of his "loss" to him, or that Vitali was the #1 heavyweight after Lewis retired (even though this is almost consensus opinion).
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Thunder and Lightning
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 177
- Joined: 11 Jul 2006, 10:40
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DonCorleone
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 31 Aug 2006, 05:14
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
Except for the day that they actually fought.DonCorleone wrote:Take the +/-/% signs off your eyes and watch the damn fight. Klitschko beats Byrd anyday (any Klitschko, anyday).
I guess I never thought about the fact that Lewis never really lost either. The McCall fight was stopped prematurely and against Rahman he was stopped due to an injury, which the consensus agrees doesn’t REALLY count. So Lewis was never really beaten during his career.
I’m glad you Vitali fans can bring clarity to such complex events as a boxing match.
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DonCorleone
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 31 Aug 2006, 05:14
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
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DonCorleone
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 31 Aug 2006, 05:14
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DonCorleone
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 31 Aug 2006, 05:14
If you could only follow up withThe Great John L wrote:It's an opinion.DonCorleone wrote:I am not a fan of Vitali in particular. But I believe him to be a better heavyweight than Chris Byrd.
Is that clarity enough?
.............'and you are entitled to it',
you would have restored my faith in humanity.
Besides beating David Tua, and two injured fighters... Who did Chris Byrd ever beat?
Highly disputed decision with Oquendo...
Draw with Golota...
Split decision with McCline...
One of the most pathetic fights in the history of boxing against Williamson.
Got the shit beat out of him twice by Wladimir, and once by Ibeabuchi.
The guys that Byrd struggled with from 2003-2005 are no better than the 4 guys that Vitali smoked from Donald to Williams.
I think the reason why many people think that "Vitali is clearly the best of a bad bunch" is because he dominated those 4 men while Byrd struggled to death with similar competition.
You can't assess a fighter on his record alone, and even if you did...
Byrd got his ass handed to him 3 times by similar competition that Vitali quit due to injuries, but was holding his own against.
Not sure how anyone can see that as being superior, in any way.
Vitali showed more promise(by dominating his opponents) than Byrd or Ruiz, which is why he gets more praise.
No reason to trash him because of it.(the "praise")
If Chris Byrd had retired after the 11th round against Wladimir, no one here would be knocking him for it until the end of time.
Highly disputed decision with Oquendo...
Draw with Golota...
Split decision with McCline...
One of the most pathetic fights in the history of boxing against Williamson.
Got the shit beat out of him twice by Wladimir, and once by Ibeabuchi.
The guys that Byrd struggled with from 2003-2005 are no better than the 4 guys that Vitali smoked from Donald to Williams.
I think the reason why many people think that "Vitali is clearly the best of a bad bunch" is because he dominated those 4 men while Byrd struggled to death with similar competition.
You can't assess a fighter on his record alone, and even if you did...
Byrd got his ass handed to him 3 times by similar competition that Vitali quit due to injuries, but was holding his own against.
Not sure how anyone can see that as being superior, in any way.
Vitali showed more promise(by dominating his opponents) than Byrd or Ruiz, which is why he gets more praise.
No reason to trash him because of it.(the "praise")
If Chris Byrd had retired after the 11th round against Wladimir, no one here would be knocking him for it until the end of time.
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pundit
- Heavyweight
Highly reasonable and measured assessment, but don't expect that you'll make any inraods with this....Tantum wrote:Besides beating David Tua, and two injured fighters... Who did Chris Byrd ever beat?
Highly disputed decision with Oquendo... Draw with Golota... Split decision with McCline... One of the most pathetic fights in the history of boxing against Williamson. Got the shit beat out of him twice by Wladimir, and once by Ibeabuchi. The guys that Byrd struggled with from 2003-2005 are no better than the 4 guys that Vitali smoked from Donald to Williams. I think the reason why many people think that "Vitali is clearly the best of a bad bunch" is because he dominated those 4 men while Byrd struggled to death with similar competition. You can't assess a fighter on his record alone, and even if you did... Byrd got his ass handed to him 3 times by similar competition that Vitali quit due to injuries, but was holding his own against. Not sure how anyone can see that as being superior, in any way.
Vitali showed more promise(by dominating his opponents) than Byrd or Ruiz, which is why he gets more praise. No reason to trash him because of it (the "praise"). If Chris Byrd had retired after the 11th round against Wladimir, no one here would be knocking him for it until the end of time.