BoxRec

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 04:48**

Think I meant to say Corley, not Mayweather....I think.

In any case though, It is quite possible that he hits harder than Castillo, Corralles and Gatti though, as none of these men are natural 140 lbers. Castillo has had what, 1 fight at 140 is it? Corralles hasn't had any yet, and Gatti, well, he didn't really prove himself at the weight either, unless you could fighting that putz he won the belt from.

I'm not saying Witter is the second coming of Thomas Hearns, but nobody before or since has done what he did to N'dou, Cotto didn't even put a dent in him.

Shot for shot, Witter's a very hard puncher indeed, but he doesn't always put them together well.

I guess Randall Bailey hits harder than Witter though....

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 04:56**

Tantum wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Witter hits harder than anyone Mayweather has faced to date
If you think Witter hits harder than Corrales, Castillo, and Gatti... You're a bigger homer than Max, and that's quite an accomplishment.

He may well hit harder than all 3

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 05:21**

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Tantum wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Witter hits harder than anyone Mayweather has faced to date
If you think Witter hits harder than Corrales, Castillo, and Gatti... You're a bigger homer than Max, and that's quite an accomplishment.
He may well hit harder than all 3

Indeed he is the only person to put N'dou on his arse. More about finding better angles to hit from because of his style.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 05:31**

Yes, power is nothing without speed and placement. For all his power, Sam Peter wasn't able to drop wlad, whilst Corey Sanders had him going down more than a Uboat commander.

I meant stop, not drop.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 05:40**

Castillo's not a devastating single hitter. He might be one of the most devastating in boxing, because of the cumulative effect. His shots batter and bruise opponents. But they don't normally go down at the top level unles they've been hit in the same spot with great repetition.

Witter is one of the hardest punchers around. Problem is he does rely on power too much. His game plan is often to lok for hard single shots which makes his performances suffer. He neds to be fluid, with lots of unpredictable shots from different angles, and the KO punch will come.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 06:30**

If Witter is on song tomorrow night, Corley might find himself on the canvas early. It's now or never for Junior, he must know that.

Funny how things change, but with one big hitting win, Witter could well wake up on Saturday morning viewed by many as the best light welter weight in the UK: the man who Ricky Hatton avoided.

Of course that could all go horribly wrong, but if not, Hatton will definitely feel the pressure to set things straight next year.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 06:51**

Well, would you have called Tyson a puncher?

A little facetious I know, but it's a fair point, obviously he had a different order of destructiveness to Witter.

The point is Corralles may well not be any kind of puncher at 140, though I suspect he's the type that would carry his power up to 140 and quite possibly all the way to 147 or even 154. He looks like he could add a lot of muscle to that big long frame of his. His punch resistance on the other hand, is unlikely to allow him to be competitive beyond 140.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 07:08**

More to do with mechanics if anything. Tyson generated his power by throwing huge amounts of bodyweight behind his shots, and generated those shots with great muscular force.

Tall lanky guys are able to generate a lot more torque on their shots due to the centripetal force generated by their longer levers, rather like a discus thrower with longer arms being able to get greater distance than a short stocky barrel chested muscle man.

It's also the fact that Corrales throws a lot of hooks, and with those long arms of his, people don't see them coming, and they are travelling at great speed on impact.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 07:20**

Terence wrote:I'm loathe to call a guy a pure puncher when he loses power after the mid-rounds. Corrales hits hard all the way through and when hurt.

Well you couldn't really argue that Tommy Hearns was not a pure puncher could you? And it was rare that Hearns knocked anyone out late on, as they were usualy parted from their senses quite soon after touching gloves.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 07:21**

yes that's a good point, it was a straight shot which did him up like a kipper wasn't it.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 07:31**

Terence wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:
Terence wrote:I'm loathe to call a guy a pure puncher when he loses power after the mid-rounds. Corrales hits hard all the way through and when hurt.
Well you couldn't really argue that Tommy Hearns was not a pure puncher could you? And it was rare that Hearns knocked anyone out late on, as they were usualy parted from their senses quite soon after touching gloves.
He did it when need be and against fairly big guys.

The great thing about Tommy is that he could also say: "Fook this! I'll box his ears off." That snap was always there though.

I like the Duran KO but the way he did for Schuler is one of my favourite fights ever.

As James says, he did the guy up like a kipper down and then up.

Yeah but remember Tommy was a fairly big guy himself. And his power did diminish late on, as seen in the Leonard fight; natural enough as the arms get tired.
His KO of Cuevas is my all time favorite: absolute class as he takes apart the Mexican then finishes him with as beautiful a straight right hand as you'll ever see.
That's what you call grace under pressure, as Pipino was probably an even harder puncher than Hearns.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 07:41**

Terence wrote:
He dredged it up though, I admired his fight with Andries as Dennis was one tough SOB in that fight. Crude and a heart breaker for smoother guys to fight.

I love the Cuevas KO, but the Duran one was insane also. That final right, jack up the volume and you can hear it cracking Duran's chin.

It is a pity he could fall apart but those shots he hit Hagler would have been great KO highlight shots if not for Hagler's chin.

I actualy had a long shot bet on Dennis that night, as I thought his off kilter style and haymakers might catch the Hearns chin at some point, between the 15 knockdowns of course.

Weird ending, I remember thinking that Dennis actualy knocks Hearns down just before the finish, but the ref rules it a slip, then he gets pushed over himself and the ref waves it off!

Can't really argue though, as it probably should've been stopped a few rounds earlier.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 07:52**

You could tell by Hearns' body language that he was suddenly out of his element. IMO Dennis could've come on to stop him. Andries had unreal stamina and guts. Hometown refereeing, that was.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 08:00**

C'mon now mate, wasn't andries down 7 times, if it was hometown refereeing, he'd have been stopped sooner.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 08:26**

Duran let Tommy take him out. He went in there to get knocked out.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 09:04**

Terence wrote:
bennie wrote:Duran let Tommy take him out. He went in there to get knocked out.
Was it an insurance scam of some sort?

He had money on being ko'd in the second, he decided to let HEarns decapitate him to make it look realistic

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 09:17**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:C'mon now mate, wasn't andries down 7 times, if it was hometown refereeing, he'd have been stopped sooner.

i was curious to see how the fight would play out. the fight was robbed of a potential climactic twist. Andries was coming on and Hearns looked like he was going in shaky mode. Dennis was a monster when he got going.

Anyhow it doesn't matter. I'm sure Andries would admit the loss did him the world of good, as he improved when learning at the Kronk gym.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 09:24**

Terence wrote:
bennie wrote:Duran let Tommy take him out. He went in there to get knocked out.
Was it an insurance scam of some sort?

It was a scam in that he took a huge payday with no intention of winning. He had already made his mind up going into Hearns he would never fight again and needed a final payday as much as any fighter approaching retirement. Moreover, he needed a final humiliation to apphease those in Panama City (where he had to retire to) still disgruntled at his "No Mas". He had appheased most of them, of course, by trouncing Moore and taking a peak Hagler 15 rounds (if Duran had won the last round against Hagler, he would have got the verdict, by the way).
But the manner in which he lost to Leonard meant he needed to lose like a true fighter before he would be fully forgiven. Look at the first knockdown. He just stands there and takes it. Then the second and final knockdown is inevitable, with Duran trading sloppily and allowing himself to be backed to the ropes. Duran, always a defensive master, stayed in range. He took the knockout

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 10:09**

Terence wrote:
bennie wrote:
Terence wrote: Was it an insurance scam of some sort?
It was a scam in that he took a huge payday with no intention of winning. He had already made his mind up going into Hearns he would never fight again and needed a final payday as much as any fighter approaching retirement. Moreover, he needed a final humiliation to apphease those in Panama City (where he had to retire to) still disgruntled at his "No Mas". He had appheased most of them, of course, by trouncing Moore and taking a peak Hagler 15 rounds (if Duran had won the last round against Hagler, he would have got the verdict, by the way).
But the manner in which he lost to Leonard meant he needed to lose like a true fighter before he would be fully forgiven. Look at the first knockdown. He just stands there and takes it. Then the second and final knockdown is inevitable, with Duran trading sloppily and allowing himself to be backed to the ropes. Duran, always a defensive master, stayed in range. He took the knockout
Never say never but I can't see it that way. Roberto may have decided he wouldn't fight again (again) yet why erase disgrace with humiliation? Appeasing his country folk may have been on his mind and one way of doing it would have been to offer Hearns a semi-competitve fight.

Less than a year after the tough fight with Hagler, close on the scorecards but not in terms of the fight itself which Hagler clearly won even before he stepped it up in the final straight, he could have been shop-worn. This coupled with Hearns hitting him hard often and clean could be the reason why his defences were scattered so early.

The standing and taking it seemed to be sheer bravado to me but I don't know the man (Duran) so who can say, maybe Hearns' resolve unnerved Duran.

For me he got caught early by a tremendous finisher, the final volley took him out and left him on his face, how easily would he have been forgiven for that? Duran often defended in close and, at times by thispoint, along the ropes, in this case he met a guy who could blast straight through him.

I re-watched Duran-Kobayashi the other day, even the young Roberto could be caught with hooks and rights that would momentarily stop him in his tracks, maybe Hearns had the power to really follow through.

Any version of Duran - before and after Hearns - could easily have done a Doug DeWitt and messed Tommy around for 12 rounds.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 10:30**

bennie wrote:
Terence wrote:
bennie wrote: It was a scam in that he took a huge payday with no intention of winning. He had already made his mind up going into Hearns he would never fight again and needed a final payday as much as any fighter approaching retirement. Moreover, he needed a final humiliation to apphease those in Panama City (where he had to retire to) still disgruntled at his "No Mas". He had appheased most of them, of course, by trouncing Moore and taking a peak Hagler 15 rounds (if Duran had won the last round against Hagler, he would have got the verdict, by the way).
But the manner in which he lost to Leonard meant he needed to lose like a true fighter before he would be fully forgiven. Look at the first knockdown. He just stands there and takes it. Then the second and final knockdown is inevitable, with Duran trading sloppily and allowing himself to be backed to the ropes. Duran, always a defensive master, stayed in range. He took the knockout
Never say never but I can't see it that way. Roberto may have decided he wouldn't fight again (again) yet why erase disgrace with humiliation? Appeasing his country folk may have been on his mind and one way of doing it would have been to offer Hearns a semi-competitve fight.

Less than a year after the tough fight with Hagler, close on the scorecards but not in terms of the fight itself which Hagler clearly won even before he stepped it up in the final straight, he could have been shop-worn. This coupled with Hearns hitting him hard often and clean could be the reason why his defences were scattered so early.

The standing and taking it seemed to be sheer bravado to me but I don't know the man (Duran) so who can say, maybe Hearns' resolve unnerved Duran.

For me he got caught early by a tremendous finisher, the final volley took him out and left him on his face, how easily would he have been forgiven for that? Duran often defended in close and, at times by thispoint, along the ropes, in this case he met a guy who could blast straight through him.

I re-watched Duran-Kobayashi the other day, even the young Roberto could be caught with hooks and rights that would momentarily stop him in his tracks, maybe Hearns had the power to really follow through.
Any version of Duran - before and after Hearns - could easily have done a Doug DeWitt and messed Tommy around for 12 rounds.

Hmm, you seem to be suggesting that there's a huge gulf if Duran and Hearns' boxing ability? Come on, Hearns was boxing Leonard's ears off in their bout, the same Leonard who was outfought by Duran in their first fight, and totally outpsyched.

That's a rather enormous consipracy theory right there, I mean what evidence is there to suggest that's the case?

It's a nice theory, but Tommy was a devastating puncher all the way to light heavyweight, and had huge height and reach advantage over Roberto, not hard to believe he can ice him.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 10:32**

But any version of Robert Duran, you have to agree, would have been quetly confident of landing one on Hearns suspect chin, and pulling off a sensational win: national pride and all the cash he'd ever need, would have been a far better prospect than gallantly going out on his shield.

And you can see Duran tries a few right hand bombs aimed at the Hearns chin while backed to the ropes in the 2nd. As for taking that right hand, he's actually ducking to his right to defuse the impact, but it's pretty awesome speed that Tommy throws it with.

Judge for your selves.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ran+hearns

Round 10 of Hearns/Andries is on there too. Looks like Tommy is clipped by a left hook then bundled over. Then the ref calls a blatant push on Andries a knockdown, and waves it off.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 10:34**

MightyWarrior wrote:But any version of Robert Duran, you have to agree, would have been quetly confident of landing one on Hearns suspect chin, and pulling off a sensational win: national pride and all the cash he'd ever need, would have been a far better prospect than gallantly going out on his shield.

And you can see Duran tries a few right hand bombs aimed at the Hearns chin while backed to the ropes in the 2nd. As for taking that right hand, he's actually ducking to his right to defuse the impact, but it's pretty awesome speed that Tommy throws it with.

Judge for your selves.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ran+hearns

Round 10 of Hearns/Andries is on there too. Looks like Tommy is clipped by a left hook then bundled over. Then the ref calls a blatant push on Andries a knockdown, and waves it off.

Precisely, much more caveat to be had in bouncing Hearns' afro off the canvas than tasting the canvas after getting the shit punched out of you.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 10:39**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Precisely, much more caveat to be had in bouncing Hearns' afro off the canvas than tasting the canvas after getting the shit punched out of you.

Only odd thing about the fight is Duran keeps touching gloves with Hearns. And to be honest, he fights like he's just smoked a large bong before the first bell.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 10:47**

MightyWarrior wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote: Precisely, much more caveat to be had in bouncing Hearns' afro off the canvas than tasting the canvas after getting the shit punched out of you.

Only odd thing about the fight is Duran keeps touching gloves with Hearns. And to be honest, he fights like he's just smoked a large bong before the first bell.

I can't watch Duran going through the motions, waiting to be knocked out. He didn't even train.

Posted: **13 Sep 2006, 10:54**

Why have I never heard this rumour before? I would have thought it would have cropped up somewhere sometime before now.

I mean I must admit that Duran was always so durable and so good at protecting his chin anyway, that it was a shocker than Hearns iced him, but Hearns' power really was something else.

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WITTER - A NEW LOOK