BoxRec

Terence wrote:

salaco wrote:quote]

Edourad has been as high as 170, he dropped because the #1 guy beat the shit out of him and he may like to have a career of sorts. He always weighed fairly high and is likely to hurt himself at the lower weight. Here is a newsflash, prospects take on less than stellar fights. They then take one another on and fight a Champ, as Taylor has done. What they do not do afterwards is take on the guy considered consensus #1. Taylor did this and still you whinge?

You said he had beaten no MW's, then you backed off and said he had beaten an old one and a bum. You must have jumpers for goalposts to move them so freely.

Here is another newsflash, many MW fights feature fighters moving up, most of the great ones in fact. MW is traditionally deepened by fighters moving from lower weights.

Also matchmaking a good name at a late stage is tricky, Ouma is a name and a decent fight given Taylor's CV recently. Blame Wright.

literacy 101, I said "legit" MWs, Edouard does not fit the bill, get it?.
For example, in contrast with Abraham, he had never fought an undefeated big MW like Ikeke (in fact that was an obvious fight that never happened), a top 10 MW coming off a respectable showing in a title fight like Eastman...even Edouard I would put below a level of the likes of velazco and hamden....

Taylor was carefully guided to the title shot, no shame in that, it what's done nowadays but there's no question he lacks a damn definitive win at MW to stamp his authority on the division and Ouma is just the guy to do that except for the fact he's a JMW (and a short one too, Ouma is not moving up to MW, he's just movin up for some Taylor bucks)..

Actually it would be Understanding 101 and you would not be teaching it, you would be outside, with your face against the window, drooling profusely.

Both you and 'Maussa are talking nonsense here, you also failed to address my points on the size of Edouard, plus the fact MW is traditionally a division that sees smaller fighters moving up and instead threw up a bunch of equally erroneous points.

Ikeke was big (incidently that was his problem), so was Edouard, both Taylor and Ikeke fought on a Hopkins bill only Taylor was not taking on a guy who was in the midst of a bunch of losses including one to Taylor himself . Ikeke fought that guy. It is hardly setting the pace is it?

Edouard was big, check out his weights, he was also undefeated, you see that, it is called addressing a point, erroneous or not. Ikeke hardly set the world alight up until that point and had a similar diet to Taylor, only Taylor stepped-up well didn't he? Ikeke did not so throwing his name in is pretty nonsensical.

Basically you are praising AA for taking on Eastman and denigrating Taylor for by-passing Howard and fighting Hopkins. You both need to get your heads together and talk sense a little bit.

Taylor has two wins over Hopkins, you can cry a river over the decision yet the W is there on the record whereas Ikeke has a big fat L on his record when it was time to step-up.

Ouma was the best possible fight considering Wright turned down a lot of money to take less for fighting his next fight. Taylor fought Wright and offered a return, I think fight one damaged Wright's heart muscles or failing that he is not pragmatic enough to realise he would have to bribe flies to rotate around shit. Making a fight is hard enough without making a biggish one in a short time scale.[/quote]

Dude, you must have never seen Edouard, the guy is simply not "big" anymore than Toney is "big", he was a softish MW, a club fighter at a weight where he did not belong.

You're missing the point. What I originally pointed out is that outside the last three fights, Taylor has not fought one legitimate MW contender, and with his highly controversial wins over Hopkins and Winky he has yet to register a definitive win over an elite MW. I don't think I'm alone in thinking this. The contrast with Abraham is that Taylor fought a lot of smaller guys, the likes of Bunema, Cuevas, and yes Edouard, on the way up and did not at any point fight another undefeated genuine MW prospect. And now, in his first MW defence, he is fighting another guy who has never fought at the weight. That sucks. Even the likes of Sergio Mora would have been acceptable or even a castillejo - at least the latter has a title and beat a genuine MW in Sturm. That would have been a nice Hatton-Maussa type fight which would not have been too stretching.

Anyhow, like all nuthuggers, you see any criticism as straight out hating so there's hardly any point arguing the points...

The paradox in Taylor's career is that a) he was heavily criticised by much of the trade media for not fighting who they wanted him to fight, then b) he fights Hopkins twice and then Winky. For a lot of ppl, a) was too easy and b) not quite convincing enough.

Edouard is a pretty good name to have. Joppy was a decent workout. But Taylor was supposed to fight Eastman in an eliminator for Hopkins. At the time, that is what I wanted to see from Taylor, ie beat Hopkins' top contender.

But the fact is he blew out Edouard impressively enough, on Hopkins-Eastman undercard, to make an impression and stir up interest for a title fight.


I mean, during his rise to the top, he was already being hyped as the heir apparent to Hopkins. Silly talk from Lampley all the time, ie "Like the greatest fighters of all time, Taylor..." So it does invite some criticism when Taylor beats up a lot of junior middles & then 'merely' scrapes by outstanding boxers.

But none of this really matters now. Ouma is actually a good workout, as Kassim might be small, but is also talented & I reckon Taylor has to work for it. If they can get Miranda in afterward, we can really see Jermain going places AND looking dominant at the same time.

Terence wrote:

salaco wrote:

Terence wrote: literacy 101, I said "legit" MWs, Edouard does not fit the bill, get it?.
For example, in contrast with Abraham, he had never fought an undefeated big MW like Ikeke (in fact that was an obvious fight that never happened), a top 10 MW coming off a respectable showing in a title fight like Eastman...even Edouard I would put below a level of the likes of velazco and hamden....

Taylor was carefully guided to the title shot, no shame in that, it what's done nowadays but there's no question he lacks a damn definitive win at MW to stamp his authority on the division and Ouma is just the guy to do that except for the fact he's a JMW (and a short one too, Ouma is not moving up to MW, he's just movin up for some Taylor bucks)..

Actually it would be Understanding 101 and you would not be teaching it, you would be outside, with your face against the window, drooling profusely.

Both you and 'Maussa are talking nonsense here, you also failed to address my points on the size of Edouard, plus the fact MW is traditionally a division that sees smaller fighters moving up and instead threw up a bunch of equally erroneous points.

Ikeke was big (incidently that was his problem), so was Edouard, both Taylor and Ikeke fought on a Hopkins bill only Taylor was not taking on a guy who was in the midst of a bunch of losses including one to Taylor himself . Ikeke fought that guy. It is hardly setting the pace is it?

Edouard was big, check out his weights, he was also undefeated, you see that, it is called addressing a point, erroneous or not. Ikeke hardly set the world alight up until that point and had a similar diet to Taylor, only Taylor stepped-up well didn't he? Ikeke did not so throwing his name in is pretty nonsensical.

Basically you are praising AA for taking on Eastman and denigrating Taylor for by-passing Howard and fighting Hopkins. You both need to get your heads together and talk sense a little bit.

Taylor has two wins over Hopkins, you can cry a river over the decision yet the W is there on the record whereas Ikeke has a big fat L on his record when it was time to step-up.

Ouma was the best possible fight considering Wright turned down a lot of money to take less for fighting his next fight. Taylor fought Wright and offered a return, I think fight one damaged Wright's heart muscles or failing that he is not pragmatic enough to realise he would have to bribe flies to rotate around shit. Making a fight is hard enough without making a biggish one in a short time scale.

Dude, you must have never seen Edouard, the guy is simply not "big" anymore than Toney is "big", he was a softish MW, a club fighter at a weight where he did not belong.

You're missing the point. What I originally pointed out is that outside the last three fights, Taylor has not fought one legitimate MW contender, and with his highly controversial wins over Hopkins and Winky he has yet to register a definitive win over an elite MW. I don't think I'm alone in thinking this. The contrast with Abraham is that Taylor fought a lot of smaller guys, the likes of Bunema, Cuevas, and yes Edouard, on the way up and did not at any point fight another undefeated genuine MW prospect. And now, in his first MW defence, he is fighting another guy who has never fought at the weight. That sucks. Even the likes of Sergio Mora would have been acceptable or even a castillejo - at least the latter has a title and beat a genuine MW in Sturm. That would have been a nice Hatton-Maussa type fight which would not have been too stretching.

Anyhow, like all nuthuggers, you see any criticism as straight out hating so there's hardly any point arguing the points...

Funny how you can call me a nut-hugger, the only time I hug my nuts is to stop them slapping your birds arse mate.

If I was a N-H I would have watched Taylor fights no? Including Edouard? He was a proper MW, as was Toney incidently, he campaigned there until he met Taylor in a contenders fight. He also beat Joppy who was a MW, who also beat Eastman, the great test on AA's record. Taylor beat Hopkins too, despite the tears.

Taylor took a title from a Champion, he then took on Wright, HBO offered him a homecoming match versus Ouma and he demanded Wright but they kept Ouma on stand-by. It is hard enough making fights, it is not a magic act where a fan cries "X" and they make the fight.

You addressed zero points.[/quote]

Stop being such a fornicating baby, does jermain pay your bills, send you beer money?
A. Its not just about who you fight, its when you fight them. Joppy was coming out of retirement (he announced it after the hopkins fight, where he celebrated not being knocked out), he was not a genuine contender, he was used up. Its about as relevant as Paul Williams stopping sharmba mitchell.
B. "He was a proper MW, as was Toney incidently, he campaigned there until he met Taylor in a contenders fight" I have no idea what you are talking about, toney meeting taylor??...
C. It like the previous poster said, HBO have invested a lot in this kid, and so far, he has not put in one definitive performance against a MW contender, and now they're having to dig up a JMW (one without power and a mediocre defence) to make him look good. They could have got Sam Soliman, a genuine MW whose style is not dissimilar but who is at least ranked at the weight, recently fought winky, and would have been happy to take the fight....

Terence wrote:AA fought Eastman after it had become quite clear Howard was not up to it on the big stage. Taylor fought Hopkins and beat him twice, Hopkins fans can cry about the result but is just that, a result.

Toney and Taylor, apply some lateral thinking, I am not pulling you up for talking like a jive-talknig pimp.

Edouard, Joppy and Hopkins twice is a pretty decent MW resume.

The Ouma fight was set up as a homecoming fight for Tayor to defend before his own fans and with one eye on taking the Wright fight next year. Wright was then offered the fight but his whole career relies on his not getting beaten so he can play the "poor avoided me, no one can beat me but they don't even want to try" card.

I also think you will find that Winky's delaying meant a whole host of names signed for fights in Nov/Dec. Ouma is a good fight for what it is worth.

You said Taylor did not fight MW's before Hopkins, you was wrong.

You said this and that about Edouard, you was wrong.

Quit whilst you are behind.

There is no point arguing with you, you think that if you keep repeating the same things regardless of the response you get, it constitutes a "victory".
To recap, Taylor did not fight a legitimate MW contender prior to the first Hopkins fight, which is why there was such a question mark regarding whether it was a good idea to stick him in so soon, check the articles around that time. It was only because Hopkins announced he was finishing up that HBO and Pat Burns decided it was now or never, that they couldn't wait any longer. I'm not a Hopkins fan, in fact I had them splitting both fights, 1-1.

Edouard is shit dude, watch what happens to his career from now on, watch what happened to the guy who he drew with twice (Beaupierre). He is NO good, he was not a legitimate contender, it was a foregone conclusion. If you deny this, then you simply never saw him prior to the Taylor fight.

Abraham fought Eastman after Eastman had put in a non-peformance against Hopkins, whereas Joppy was PUNISHED horrifically against Hopkins. Again, if you can't see the difference between Eastman (who went on to go tooth and nail with miranda) and Joppy at that point in their respctive careers, damn...

I still have no idea what you meant by Toney meeting Taylor...

jesus H

I cant believe folk are criticiing taylors fight resume?

what a load of bollocks, theres no need to go into it in my mind.

Hopkins Winy right and Ouma, outside Pacqiou no otherman has fought such fine opposition over the past couple of years.

Really osme of you need to lose the bias towards a fghter just cos you dontlike him for some reason.

this really is quite silly.

So i think we can safely assume that Abraham isn't all he is cracked up to be, struggled his arse off to impress against Taylor and Jantuah (two blown up Welters) and now this showing against a raw, tough guy in Miranda. The Ikeke fight was a clear cut case of styles make fights IMO. Abraham V Sturm should happen soon...i back Sturm still, like i always have, he wouldn't be so reckless as he was with Castillejo trying to impress the crowd. He will outbox Abraham.

Terence wrote:AA fought Eastman after it had become quite clear Howard was not up to it on the big stage. Taylor fought Hopkins and beat him twice, Hopkins fans can cry about the result but is just that, a result.

Toney and Taylor, apply some lateral thinking, I am not pulling you up for talking like a jive-talknig pimp.

Edouard, Joppy and Hopkins twice is a pretty decent MW resume.

The Ouma fight was set up as a homecoming fight for Tayor to defend before his own fans and with one eye on taking the Wright fight next year. Wright was then offered the fight but his whole career relies on his not getting beaten so he can play the "poor avoided me, no one can beat me but they don't even want to try" card.

I also think you will find that Winky's delaying meant a whole host of names signed for fights in Nov/Dec. Ouma is a good fight for what it is worth.

You said Taylor did not fight MW's before Hopkins, you was wrong.

You said this and that about Edouard, you was wrong.

Quit whilst you are behind.

I was actually excited about Taylor fighting Edouard. It was the 1st time I'd seen him fight, & my colleagues were getting very impatient with him fighting junior middles. However, after he blew Ed away, I heard about Ed being his ex sparring partner.

However, I will say that I reckon the Edouard fight possibly shows us as much about Taylor as the Hopkins & Winky fights. If he struggled vs the two hardest to hit boxers in the sport Hops and WW, he is also way too powerful and rounded for most middleweights.