David Haye vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 18 Nov 2006, 07:21

DAMNIT! i thought the fight was tonight, not that i could have seen it anyway.

Anyone know where i can find clips of the fight?

revporl · Post by **revporl** » 18 Nov 2006, 08:15

I don't think I've ever really felt strong enough about a fight to say this, but I think there were some bungs going about last night, the Italian was withdrawn way too suddenly, and him and his corner seemed perfectly happy about the result. My girlfreind immediately said "Fix!", and having thought about it, I hate to admit it but I think she was right.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 18 Nov 2006, 09:19

revporl wrote:I don't think I've ever really felt strong enough about a fight to say this, but I think there were some bungs going about last night, the Italian was withdrawn way too suddenly, and him and his corner seemed perfectly happy about the result. My girlfreind immediately said "Fix!", and having thought about it, I hate to admit it but I think she was right.

there was a wbc title shot on the line.

no way was that a fix.

the cornerman could have let his man go, but he obviously felt he had tried his best was just gonna take more of it.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 18 Nov 2006, 09:27

Haye fought a good fight against a very tough challenger but his defence wasnt good enough - Good job the Italian didnt have big bombs to offer or it might have been a very different story - This fight has convinced me Enzo is the better man whereas before the fight I thought they were pretty even with Enzo just edging it - Haye has improved, a year or so ago against the same man I think he would have lost - He needed that fight to prepare himself for a war with Bell - I think he has learned a great deal from it just as he did in his battle with Thompson - You must have a tight defence at world level and I think this is what he must concentrate on.

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 18 Nov 2006, 10:33

It was exactly what Haye needed, he boxed superby IMO, I really enjoyed the fight, although I was abit nervous when I saw the punches that Fragomeni was walking through early on, but Haye answered the questions about his stamina. Fragomeni was a tough SOB, Haye caught him with some BIG shots throughout the fight and he kept coming back for more. Haye picked his punches well to head and body, boxed at a decent pace and gradually wore him down. Fragomeni was constantly in Hayes face trying to make him work at an uncomfortable pace, hoping that Haye would punch himself out, but Haye learnt that lesson against Carl Thompson and he maintained his discipline and fught at a 12 round pace

Haye picked up a nasty cut from a punch around the 7th round, but he didn't let it effect him. He proved he has the heart to dig deep when needed

Hayes defence could have been tighter (as always) and Fragomeni wasn't a BIG puncher, so there are still questions regarding his chin, but this was a career best performance and just what Haye needed in preperation for Bell.

Bring on Bell, he's in for a right shoeing!!! Then Haye can fit in a quick defence against Enzo before moving upto HW

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 18 Nov 2006, 10:34

revporl wrote:I don't think I've ever really felt strong enough about a fight to say this, but I think there were some bungs going about last night, the Italian was withdrawn way too suddenly, and him and his corner seemed perfectly happy about the result. My girlfreind immediately said "Fix!", and having thought about it, I hate to admit it but I think she was right.

Absolute drivel

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 11:05

revporl wrote:I don't think I've ever really felt strong enough about a fight to say this, but I think there were some bungs going about last night, the Italian was withdrawn way too suddenly, and him and his corner seemed perfectly happy about the result. My girlfreind immediately said "Fix!", and having thought about it, I hate to admit it but I think she was right.

I agree unfortunately, Hayes eye was pouring blood, and he looked totally knackered, a half decent attack could well have forced a stoppage in my opinion... as it was the Italian seemed to collapse very quickly under a fairly innocuous barrage of punches... I've never seen someone suddenly so uninspired when he's got his opponent cut and tired.... I've been watching boxing over 30 years and didnt like what I think I saw last night... put together with his last few performances I've got serious doubts about Haye now... far too heavily muscelled, (someone should tell him he's a boxer not a bodybuilder) and knackered after 5 rounds.... I think Enzo Maccrinelli would demolish Haye.... as for Haye being a force at heavyweight, thats a pipe dream, he's not even a big Cruiserweight like Enzo and I dont think he has the durability to beat fighters weighing 230+....

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 11:09

Chesney_Chambers wrote:It was exactly what Haye needed, he boxed superby IMO, I really enjoyed the fight, although I was abit nervous when I saw the punches that Fragomeni was walking through early on, but Haye answered the questions about his stamina. Fragomeni was a tough SOB, Haye caught him with some BIG shots throughout the fight and he kept coming back for more. Haye picked his punches well to head and body, boxed at a decent pace and gradually wore him down. Fragomeni was constantly in Hayes face trying to make him work at an uncomfortable pace, hoping that Haye would punch himself out, but Haye learnt that lesson against Carl Thompson and he maintained his discipline and fught at a 12 round pace

Haye picked up a nasty cut from a punch around the 7th round, but he didn't let it effect him. He proved he has the heart to dig deep when needed

Hayes defence could have been tighter (as always) and Fragomeni wasn't a BIG puncher, so there are still questions regarding his chin, but this was a career best performance and just what Haye needed in preperation for Bell.

Bring on Bell, he's in for a right shoeing!!! Then Haye can fit in a quick defence against Enzo before moving upto HW

With respect mate I think you were watching a different fight to me!... 8)

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 11:12

hitman_hatton1 wrote:
revporl wrote:I don't think I've ever really felt strong enough about a fight to say this, but I think there were some bungs going about last night, the Italian was withdrawn way too suddenly, and him and his corner seemed perfectly happy about the result. My girlfreind immediately said "Fix!", and having thought about it, I hate to admit it but I think she was right.
there was a wbc title shot on the line.

no way was that a fix.

the cornerman could have let his man go, but he obviously felt he had tried his best was just gonna take more of it.

You really dont think its a bit iffy a corner pulling their man out when the opponent is tired and badly cut??... and a world title shot on the line too?... remember it was Haye who was cut not the Italian...

tigerpomfret · Post by **tigerpomfret** » 18 Nov 2006, 12:38

I thought it was a fix. As soon as Fragomeni hit the ground you could see his corner walking up the steps to throw in the towel. He was up around 6 and didn't look to bad. He still had focus in his eyes. and his hands were up and ready.

I think if Fragomeni had the cut Haye had it would have been stopped before the 8th round. Haye said himself that he was fighting with one eye. The ref would have had to stop it. Fragomeni probably only needed to go 2 more rounds max.

It was a little weird how happy Fragomeni was at the end of the fight, even though it looked like he should have won it. He was climbing the ropes at one point and punching the air. He didn't look at all disappointed.

Haye hands are always down. He needs to keep them up. I personally didn't think he looked anything special. He's asking for it keeping his hands down that low. Maybe it was just because he knew that Fragomeni didn't have a good punch?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 12:44

tigerpomfret wrote:I thought it was a fix. As soon as Fragomeni hit the ground you could see his corner walking up the steps to throw in the towel. He was up around 6 and didn't look to bad. He still had focus in his eyes. and his hands were up and ready.

I think if Fragomeni had the cut Haye had it would have been stopped before the 8th round. Haye said himself that he was fighting with one eye. The ref would have had to stop it. Fragomeni probably only needed to go 2 more rounds max.

It was a little weird how happy Fragomeni was at the end of the fight, even though it looked like he should have won it. He was climbing the ropes at one point and punching the air. He didn't look at all disappointed.

Haye hands are always down. He needs to keep them up. I personally didn't think he looked anything special. He's asking for it keeping his hands down that low. Maybe it was just because he knew that Fragomeni didn't have a good punch?

Something certainly stank last night I think... the Italian was the happiest loser I've seen in a longtime, he would only have needed to mount a half-decent attack to stop Haye imo... cant believe some are calling Hayes performance 'brilliant' aside from everything else he seems to be growing muscle bound and this is a fighter already with a stamina problem...

Chesney_Chambers · Post by **Chesney_Chambers** » 18 Nov 2006, 12:51

silkov wrote:
revporl wrote:I don't think I've ever really felt strong enough about a fight to say this, but I think there were some bungs going about last night, the Italian was withdrawn way too suddenly, and him and his corner seemed perfectly happy about the result. My girlfreind immediately said "Fix!", and having thought about it, I hate to admit it but I think she was right.
I agree unfortunately, Hayes eye was pouring blood, and he looked totally knackered, a half decent attack could well have forced a stoppage in my opinion... as it was the Italian seemed to collapse very quickly under a fairly innocuous barrage of punches... I've never seen someone suddenly so uninspired when he's got his opponent cut and tired.... I've been watching boxing over 30 years and didnt like what I think I saw last night... put together with his last few performances I've got serious doubts about Haye now... far too heavily muscelled, (someone should tell him he's a boxer not a bodybuilder) and knackered after 5 rounds.... I think Enzo Maccrinelli would demolish Haye.... as for Haye being a force at heavyweight, thats a pipe dream, he's not even a big Cruiserweight like Enzo and I dont think he has the durability to beat fighters weighing 230+....

WTF, that post has gobsmacked me

It was the body shot that took it all out of the Italian, it was a delayed effect, to say it was an innocuous shot is rubbish. He'd been shipping BIG shots to head and body throughout the fight, so the accusations that you're throwing at Fragomeni are nothing short of disgraceful IMO. I thought Fragomeni looked teak tough, but the accumulation of body shots that he shipped took their toll and the one that finished him was a beauty (about 3 or 4 secs before he went down)

I can't believe that you reckon this Italian has thrown the BIGGEST fight of his career. Haye came on strong after the round he got cut and he was nowhere near being stopped.

Hayes too quick for Enzo IMO, but it's a case of who lands the BIG shot first (Haye IMO)

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 18 Nov 2006, 13:14

Haye sickened the Italian by refusing to fold and continually banging in hard, heavy shots.

Haye came thru a gut check last night in my eyes and went up in my estimations.

There is no 'fix' involved in my eyes - Haye fixed the Italian with a bucket load of hard punches and surprisingly good fitness levels.

Admittedly at one stage I though the Italian might walk Haye down, but the clothes horse showed grit and concentration in there.

Good on Haye, he came thru a tough one and melted the Italians reserve. Note that Fragomeni didnt rebel against the corner retirement - he'd had his fill and was put off by Haye's weight of shot.

At least thats how I read it.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Nov 2006, 15:04

yes, it does all sound over the top. Fragomeni looked like he'd had it when he WANTED to go down. Haye kept him up, punched him to keep him up, and then for good measure, hit him while he was on the ground.

frag was frigged, and his corner new it.

so many over reactions round here.

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 18 Nov 2006, 15:08

Silkov your the most whining bastard on here and always chatting shit about corruption and anything negative, you used to be a good quality member on this board along time ago but now your just full of negativity.

WayoftheCass · Post by **WayoftheCass** » 18 Nov 2006, 16:37

If that was a fix then bravo to whom ever organised it as I've never seen a fighter who is going to throw a fight give the victor hell for long. No way you take the shots Haye did and suffer the facial damage he did when your opponent is paid to dive. I mean surely if the fix was in the the Italian goes down earlier as for about 2-3 rounds there was a serious possibility of Haye being stopped on that horrible cut that was bleeding like a stuck pig.
I thought the body shot that effectively finished Fragomeni was pretty superb. Haye really wound it up.
While Watt was banging on about how it was all playing into the Italians hands, that being Haye at times kicking the shit out of him but not putting him down, I was thinking how unhappy the Italian was looking. He took a hell of a lot of Haye's bombs.
Thats another thing. Fragomeni took some mother shots right from the off so why didn't he go down from them? Why did he wait and then take a dive at a point that would arise suspicion.
I didn't think he looked that happy after the bout. Maybe he was satisfied that he gave a good effort and didn't get blown away as many thought he would. I never actually saw him smiling.
I mean it wasn't exactly a no mass but the difference between the two when they opened up was huge. The Italian just didn't thave the power. I mean apart from that awful cut Haye's face wasn't really that marked up.
It actually reminded me of the Lasse Johansen fight which eneded in similar fashion but was no where near as exciting.

JC · Post by JC » 18 Nov 2006, 16:46

WayoftheCass wrote:If that was a fix then bravo to whom ever organised it as I've never seen a fighter who is going to throw a fight give the victor hell for long. No way you take the shots Haye did and suffer the facial damage he did when your opponent is paid to dive. I mean surely if the fix was in the the Italian goes down earlier as for about 2-3 rounds there was a serious possibility of Haye being stopped on that horrible cut that was bleeding like a stuck pig.

That's an excellent point, it's like if Moore was supposed to tank the fight witn Marciano why the heck did he hit the iron jawed heavyweight hard enough to put him down in the 9th.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:01

Razor wrote:Silkov your the most whining bastard on here and always chatting shit about corruption and anything negative, you used to be a good quality member on this board along time ago but now your just full of negativity.

Just voicing my opinion mate, free speech and all is not totally banned yet... you dont have to agree with me, but I dont have to say what you want to hear... if it gives you nightmares then I'm sorry... 8)

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:03

J-C wrote:
WayoftheCass wrote:If that was a fix then bravo to whom ever organised it as I've never seen a fighter who is going to throw a fight give the victor hell for long. No way you take the shots Haye did and suffer the facial damage he did when your opponent is paid to dive. I mean surely if the fix was in the the Italian goes down earlier as for about 2-3 rounds there was a serious possibility of Haye being stopped on that horrible cut that was bleeding like a stuck pig.
That's an excellent point, it's like if Moore was supposed to tank the fight witn Marciano why the heck did he hit the iron jawed heavyweight hard enough to put him down in the 9th.

I think you'd see that theres a hell of a lot of difference between the two fights... anyone who thinks Moore tanked it against Marcinao is either blind or stupid...

holyfields_ear · Post by **holyfields_ear** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:14

The last shout I thought I would see on here is that of a 'fix'! Such posts reek of cynicism and misery. Fragomeni had an excellent chin and was very proud. His corner knew he wouldn't be beaten until he was battered into the ground so they pulled him out. Perhaps too early in the eyes of some but they know the fighter best and could see what was going to happen. Trainers get slated for stopping a fight too late and the same goes for stopping it too early. They cannot win! Haye was the better man on the night and dispelled any doubts about his desire when having to rough it out. The doubters should give him credit instead of making such cynical observstions and leave the miserable attituted behind - we have a genuine world class fighter ffs!

People moan the sport is dying in this country yet I have never seen such pitiful support for fighters from our shores. Some people should take a look at themselves.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:25

holyfields_ear wrote: The last shout I thought I would see on here is that of a 'fix'! Such posts reek of cynicism and misery. Fragomeni had an excellent chin and was very proud. His corner knew he wouldn't be beaten until he was battered into the ground so they pulled him out. Perhaps too early in the eyes of some but they know the fighter best and could see what was going to happen. Trainers get slated for stopping a fight too late and the same goes for stopping it too early. They cannot win! Haye was the better man on the night and dispelled any doubts about his desire when having to rough it out. The doubters should give him credit instead of making such cynical observstions and leave the miserable attituted behind - we have a genuine world class fighter ffs!

People moan the sport is dying in this country yet I have never seen such pitiful support for fighters from our shores. Some people should take a look at themselves.

I agree, and it's the same people crying fix that were saying Macklin-Moore should have been stopped sooner!

I can't people are actually calling that a fix, worst fix I've ever seen in that case :x

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:27

holyfields_ear wrote: The last shout I thought I would see on here is that of a 'fix'! Such posts reek of cynicism and misery. Fragomeni had an excellent chin and was very proud. His corner knew he wouldn't be beaten until he was battered into the ground so they pulled him out. Perhaps too early in the eyes of some but they know the fighter best and could see what was going to happen. Trainers get slated for stopping a fight too late and the same goes for stopping it too early. They cannot win! Haye was the better man on the night and dispelled any doubts about his desire when having to rough it out. The doubters should give him credit instead of making such cynical observstions and leave the miserable attituted behind - we have a genuine world class fighter ffs!

People moan the sport is dying in this country yet I have never seen such pitiful support for fighters from our shores. Some people should take a look at themselves.

Misery?... I'm not miserable mate, most of the time, just voicing an opinion that something looked a bit iffy to me and I wasnt the first to say it. if you're so happy about the fight stop crying about a few comments that you are free to ignore if you dont agree with them. As for Haye I've got nothing against him personally, just thought some things didnt look right last night... I've been watching boxing long enough to know what I'm talking about....

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:29

lvlarc_uk wrote:
holyfields_ear wrote: The last shout I thought I would see on here is that of a 'fix'! Such posts reek of cynicism and misery. Fragomeni had an excellent chin and was very proud. His corner knew he wouldn't be beaten until he was battered into the ground so they pulled him out. Perhaps too early in the eyes of some but they know the fighter best and could see what was going to happen. Trainers get slated for stopping a fight too late and the same goes for stopping it too early. They cannot win! Haye was the better man on the night and dispelled any doubts about his desire when having to rough it out. The doubters should give him credit instead of making such cynical observstions and leave the miserable attituted behind - we have a genuine world class fighter ffs!

People moan the sport is dying in this country yet I have never seen such pitiful support for fighters from our shores. Some people should take a look at themselves.
I agree, and it's the same people crying fix that were saying Macklin-Moore should have been stopped sooner!

I can't people are actually calling that a fix, worst fix I've ever seen in that case :x

Maybe some of us know what we're watching mate... the fact that FW himself thought Macklin should have been pulled out earlier should tell you something on that subject!....

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:34

I'm not saying I disagree with some of those opinions, (although had it been stopped sooner, no doubt people would STILL have complained) but you can't have it both ways mate.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 18 Nov 2006, 17:39

silkov wrote: Maybe some of us know what we're watching mate... the fact that FW himself thought Macklin should have been pulled out earlier should tell you something on that subject!....

FW's thought on the subject are irrelevant IMO.

He doesnt manage Matthew anymore and hates his trainer so his comments are forever tainted with hideous levels of bias.

David Haye vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni

Will Fragomeni go the distance against Haye?