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Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 04:58
by Deram
Max Molyneux wrote:I bet Kessler after he fights Andrade will fight the winner of whoever fights for the vacant IBF title and then he'll have even more of a rightful reason to fight Calzaghe and he'll gain more of the hardcore fans on his side then.
Joe will look even worse if he turned him down then!
Wish he didn't give up the belt, one more mandatory surely couldn't hurt and fighters are getting too obsessed with pleasing America, they get pleased enough already!
That's right - come to the white side Max. After all - it is rarely a very pleasing experience being a Calzaghe-fan and he is done in a year or two anyway.
Kessler will give you a great ride for many years to come
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 06:06
by rhino222
calzaghe is known in the states now due to his job on lacy, therefore the belt becomes unimportant, belts are only important if you are relatively unknown across the pond.
the big fights are still there for joe, even without a belt at stake, and taylor would be an ideal opponent.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 06:38
by JC
rhino222 wrote:calzaghe is known in the states now due to his job on lacy, therefore the belt becomes unimportant, belts are only important if you are relatively unknown across the pond.
the big fights are still there for joe, even without a belt at stake, and taylor would be an ideal opponent.
I'm not a big fan of the various titles myself but in this case I disagree. With Kessler holding two of the big three and Calzaghe with the IBF the opportunity was there to unify the SM diuvision for the first time ever. Joe's been knocking around the SM dicision for over 10 years now never as unified champion. If he unified the division it makes a future fight with Tylor that much more attractive, surely that has to be worth more to HBO than seeing him fight Manfredo.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 07:12
by Max Molyneux
Deram wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:I bet Kessler after he fights Andrade will fight the winner of whoever fights for the vacant IBF title and then he'll have even more of a rightful reason to fight Calzaghe and he'll gain more of the hardcore fans on his side then.
Joe will look even worse if he turned him down then!
Wish he didn't give up the belt, one more mandatory surely couldn't hurt and fighters are getting too obsessed with pleasing America, they get pleased enough already!
That's right - come to the white side Max. After all - it is rarely a very pleasing experience being a Calzaghe-fan and he is done in a year or two anyway.
Kessler will give you a great ride for many years to come
Screw you hippy, Kessler is good but he won't go as far as Calzaghe has yet.
Maybe they will ight eventually but at the moment doing this gives him more hate.
Maybe after Andrade's sorted and Manfredo is whooped maybe then.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 07:56
by lvlarc
Deram wrote:Kessler offered Calzaghe 3.4 mill US$ which would be double Joe's hitherto highest purse...
think about that.
Even knowing that one or two people still say... "well, but I don't think the fight makes enohgh money.. so it should not happen..."
WTF?
That is like going to Target shop and being offered an Ipod for 30US$ and then replying.. "Hmm.. I don't think you guys are making money.. so I don't want the Ipod".
How TF is it Calzaghe's business if the fight makes money? Bottom line is that he was offered double any purse he has ever made.
Why would Warren give up the promotion and miss out on cash when Calzaghe brings most of the money to the fight? Calzaghe is the one who sells the tickets & brings in the viewers.
What are the details of this offer then? Palle was supposed to be in financial trouble so that figure is probably bogus. Can I have a link to the article on Palle's site.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:12
by Max Molyneux
How do we know that 3.4 Million offer is legit too.
I hear they lost money on Beyer and aren't Palle in financial trouble?
Deram is as bad as Pundit.
That offer would be his highest purse but hearing about the financial side of Palle are you really sure that offer is legit Deram?
The Target sentence is absolute crap. It doesn't make sense with the other sentence.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:15
by Max Molyneux
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:23
by lvlarc
Steiglitz has to win the NABO to become madatory though, by beating Inklin?
No actually Manfredo is ranked 1 in WBO NABO rankings.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:44
by Deram
Max Molyneux wrote:How do we know that 3.4 Million offer is legit too.
I hear they lost money on Beyer and aren't Palle in financial trouble?
Deram is as bad as Pundit.
That offer would be his highest purse but hearing about the financial side of Palle are you really sure that offer is legit Deram?
The Target sentence is absolute crap. It doesn't make sense with the other sentence.
This was all over the news about 2 weeks ago. I am sure a simple google search can get you it - at least in Danish
OK, give me one second... since you cannot be bothered to look for it...here is one.. in Danish. It says Calzaghe has been offered 20 mil Danish Crowns plus the TV right to GB.
http://borsen.dk/657/?id=SLAN-6VCDDR15828
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:46
by Deram
You know not to worry about the WBO. They have never made Joe do anything and that wont change now.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:46
by Max Molyneux
And you instantly believe it because Kessler and Palle said it?
There taking advantage of the criticism Joe gets.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:48
by Max Molyneux
Deram wrote:
You know not to worry about the WBO. They have never made Joe do anything and that wont change now.
I prefer the IBF, it's red leather and gold with Jewels makes it look better.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 08:53
by Deram
Max Molyneux wrote:And you instantly believe it because Kessler and Palle said it?
There taking advantage of the criticism Joe gets.
Just use common sense. Palle were supposed to be in financial trouble about 2 years ago.. and a year later they pay Beyer the biggest purse of his life.. and that IS saying a lot because he is usually paid WELL by he huge German promotor.
Palle has been rumoured to be bankrupt many many times over the years, but it has never been true. The fmaily is so rich that they can do what they want and if they don't want the company to go bankrupt.. it wont. Simple as that.
So after Lucas received his carreer highest purse, Beyer received his carreer highest purse..and now Calzaghe has been offered his carreer highest purse... and he is desparately hoping that the money isn't there... lol
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 09:08
by Max Molyneux
Yeah and who helps pay those highest paydays? Thats right there TV contract that they havent had for that long.
And they supposed to have lost money paying Beyer his highest purse.
Just because they manage these paydays doesn't mean there still not in financial trouble.
Just because they don't want it too doesn't mean they don't struggle to make the money too.
If there so rich and if Kessler is such a big name then why couldn't they sell more than 7,000 tickets in a 42,000 seater staduim? Calzaghe does 16,000 to 19,000 in a 22,000 seater staduim at least.
Boxings not even too big in Denmark, he'd have to come to Wales.
Warren could sell the fight better than they can eat Danish Bacon.
You wouldn't see Palle outbidding Golden Boy.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 10:11
by pundit
Deram wrote:
You know not to worry about the WBO. They have never made Joe do anything and that wont change now.
This is the key point. And this is why they are keeping the WBO belt and not the IBF one.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 10:15
by pundit
Max Molyneux wrote:Yeah and who helps pay those highest paydays? Thats right there TV contract that they havent had for that long.
Sorry, but what exactly is your point? This is Team Palle's problem -- if they transfers USD 3,4 million to Warren's account then the money is Warren's -- Palle has to see himself how he'll balance his finances.
FACT: Warren just turned down the BY FAR biggest payday he would ever have had with Calzaghe. He also turned down a bigger payday he could ever hope to make in the US, at least at this stage. Hence MONEY is definitely NOT the reason why they are ducking Kessler.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 10:23
by pundit
Taki... wrote:pundit wrote:Taki... wrote:
Bollocks, half the titles knocking around aren't worth the imitation gold they're printed on. The IBF's supermiddle rankings are a joke!
The only thing having all 4 titles does is cost a boxer 4 times the sanctioning fee.
It's really simple.
IBF title > WBO title.
Why? Because the IBF tends to require from its beltholders to fight decent mandatories.
Now what title does Calzaghe keep? The WBO title.
Hence the trouble of not to being able to select his opponents seems to trouble him and his team more than the higher worth of the IBF title attracts him.
Btw, if all belts are worthless, why doesn't Calzaghe dump BOTH the IBF belt and the WBO belt and becomes Kessler's mandatory? This he would be on the day after announcing his decision, and Kessler would ahve to take him on in this case.
But of course this Calzaghe does not do -- he does not want to be Kessler's mandatory, because in this case he would have to fight him.
Conclusion: keeping the WBO title and droping the IBF title is the best possible strategy to protect Calzaghe against unpleasant opposition.
Any more questions? I don't think so.
P
Hahahahahaha... decent mandatories? We are talking about Stieglitz! And assuming Calzaghe had beaten him the #2 on the IBF's stiffs list is Berrio, who was KO'd by Stieglitz... shit, then maybe Lacy and Haussler would box off for that 'decent' manadatory spot you're talking up.
And one day -- scare shock drama -- the IBF may put MUNDINE in the mandatory spot....
And they may -- almitghty in heaven -- request a PURSE BID, and stingy Warren may lose that bid to Australia....
... off with the belt into the trashcan. Far too hot to handle.
More generally, you need to face up to a few simple truths that are really common knowledge but perhaps haven't made their way into FWarren's digestive system:
1) All federations are shaky organiazations, but among the major ones the WBO is by far the shakiest.
2) All belts have limited value, but the WBO has by far the least.
3) Most promoters are shady characters and bad for boxing, but FWarren pretty much tops the list.
As a consequence, Warren and the WBO make a perfect match.
The fans are those being taken for a ride though, but fortunately for Warren and the WBO there are enough around who will back and defend every attempt to cheat them.
P
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 12:47
by Max Molyneux
pundit wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Yeah and who helps pay those highest paydays? Thats right there TV contract that they havent had for that long.
Sorry, but what exactly is your point? This is Team Palle's problem -- if they transfers USD 3,4 million to Warren's account then the money is Warren's -- Palle has to see himself how he'll balance his finances.
FACT: Warren just turned down the BY FAR biggest payday he would ever have had with Calzaghe. He also turned down a bigger payday he could ever hope to make in the US, at least at this stage. Hence MONEY is definitely NOT the reason why they are ducking Kessler.
My point is, is that offer legit as Palle have problems and lost money paying Beyer.
Did Palle even talk about this alleged 20 million Krone or 1.8 Million pound with Warren or did they just spout nonsense through the internet?
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 12:53
by jamesmcdonnell
Yep, anyone can make bold offers which they cannot back up.
I could get a promoters license and then say I'll pay him 50 million to fight my cousin in the back yard of my mum's flat, don't mean shite though.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 13:01
by pundit
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, anyone can make bold offers which they cannot back up.
I could get a promoters license and then say I'll pay him 50 million to fight my cousin in the back yard of my mum's flat, don't mean shite though.
So far Palle has backed up all his offers. What on earth stops Warren from just accepting the offer? Should the fight fall really through thereafter because Palle can't pay, the fault would be squarely and visibly for everyone in Palle's field.
The fact of the matter is of course: Warren doesn't accept the offer because they don't want to fight Kessler.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 13:20
by jomothepure
J-C wrote:rhino222 wrote:calzaghe is known in the states now due to his job on lacy, therefore the belt becomes unimportant, belts are only important if you are relatively unknown across the pond.
the big fights are still there for joe, even without a belt at stake, and taylor would be an ideal opponent.
I'm not a big fan of the various titles myself but in this case I disagree. With Kessler holding two of the big three and Calzaghe with the IBF the opportunity was there to unify the SM diuvision for the first time ever. Joe's been knocking around the SM dicision for over 10 years now never as unified champion. If he unified the division it makes a future fight with Tylor that much more attractive, surely that has to be worth more to HBO than seeing him fight Manfredo.
Fully agree. The belts may be pap, but having them unified is symbolic. The fact that a man of Calzaghe's talent has let us have this discussion over him needing to unify belts/fight another guy (ie. Kessler) is a clear indication the job is not done. Whilst the WBO may be as good/bad as the other 3 belts in many repects, for me they are by far the worst in terms of the mandatories they produce. At least having (and defending) two titles makes the "rigorous" mandatory opposition process a little better, yet Joe has dropped it in favour if the big bucks and big lights. It may be looking good on the surface, but for me he could beat Manfredo, beat Taylor, and still have work to do.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 13:31
by nickd
The reason the offer was not accepted is because Warren would never give away the promotional rights if that fight ever happened. Even with that big offer Calzaghe would make a fortune and Warren who doesn't even charge most of his fighters a managers fee would make peanuts at best compared to how much he'd make for promoting such a fight himself.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 15:11
by pundit
nickd wrote:The reason the offer was not accepted is because Warren would never give away the promotional rights if that fight ever happened. Even with that big offer Calzaghe would make a fortune and Warren who doesn't even charge most of his fighters a managers fee would make peanuts at best compared to how much he'd make for promoting such a fight himself.
Spot on. Warren won't allow to lose control over the management of Calzaghe's fights. This is also why they drop the IBF belt -- a proper federation would impose mandatories and hold purse bids that Warren may lose.
The question then is why CALZAGHE is putting up with this -- and has so for the past 10 years.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 18:14
by Flump
pundit wrote:nickd wrote:The reason the offer was not accepted is because Warren would never give away the promotional rights if that fight ever happened. Even with that big offer Calzaghe would make a fortune and Warren who doesn't even charge most of his fighters a managers fee would make peanuts at best compared to how much he'd make for promoting such a fight himself.
Spot on. Warren won't allow to lose control over the management of Calzaghe's fights. This is also why they drop the IBF belt -- a proper federation would impose mandatories and hold purse bids that Warren may lose.
The question then is why CALZAGHE is putting up with this -- and has so for the past 10 years.
Absolutely right. What is Warren doing for him? In a 'coming out' fight where the Americans were looking at him as a potential star allegedly Frank throws him in with an UFC style challenger who is as strong as an ox and what happens? Joe looks terrible.
Now he's convinced him to give up a legitimate title and keep the bargain basement belt that has stained most of his career. Calzaghe should drop him, he is after all 34 years old and coming towards the end.
Posted: 28 Nov 2006, 19:46
by Max Molyneux
pundit wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, anyone can make bold offers which they cannot back up.
I could get a promoters license and then say I'll pay him 50 million to fight my cousin in the back yard of my mum's flat, don't mean shite though.
So far Palle has backed up all his offers. What on earth stops Warren from just accepting the offer? Should the fight fall really through thereafter because Palle can't pay, the fault would be squarely and visibly for everyone in Palle's field.
The fact of the matter is of course: Warren doesn't accept the offer because they don't want to fight Kessler.
Has Palle even gone up to Warren with the offer? Spouting it on the internet is no good when you don't even talk to the promoter.
He's backed them up but Beyer was the only real money he's done with Kessler and lost money doing it. Mundine was the one promoting their fight.