You're pushing it here, surely. I'm not going to claim Hatton is invincible or anything. But the Tackie fight cannot be used as an example of Hatton being vulnerable. He certainly wasn't 'hanging on' apart from the last few seconds of the fight, when he clinched after being hit. ( after a fight where he hammered Tackie for 12 rounds).Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Was Hatton hurt - yes, he was hanging for dear life against Collazo and Tackie.
I wasn't looking at critisising Hatton. My original point was Hatton had improved his defense by being less reckless. Witters vunerabilities were pointed out and I contended he had overcome some of those just as Hatton did when he faced Tyszu. I only remembered Hatton was hurt against Collazo after Taki said Ricky had never been seriously hurtjamesmcdonnell wrote:Balderdash.
I agree Hatton was hurt against Collazo, yes, he did look badly stunned, and he was holding on for dear life, but so what, fighters get hurt in the ring.
Have you actually watched Corley v Mayweather, he briefly stuns mayweather who stumbles back into the ropes, and then proceeds to kick Corley's ass for the remainder of the fight, big deal. The same horseshit was talked about his fight with Cotto, when he landed a temple shot which short circuited Cotto's legs, but never his head. Cotto was totally with it, and hung on and covered up until he felt back to normal.
Magee hurt Hatton only briefly, Hatton was more shaken up than hurt, and fought cautiously back into the fight because it was the first time he had been knocked down and was a bit taken aback, he got caught cold, nothing more.l
Harris is inconsistent, just like Judah is. He would not have beaten Tszyu, absolutely no way. Hatton took massive bombs of Tszyu in the middle rounds, and really had to beat the life out of him with constant pressure, Harris would have gotten torn to shreds.
I agree though that Castillo is being overhyped at 140, what has he done to prove anything at 140. He could turn out to be awesome, he could fold like a broken deck chair, thing is, Hatton is getting to him before we find out either way, and if he beats Castillo, which I think he will, then Castillo I have a feeling won't go on to do much, he's getting on now, and has been in some tough battles, a style like Castillo's doesn't make for longevity, especially when you're in with bigger men.
I never said Hatton had been exposed, I just pointed out hes not invincable. Did you watch Maussa-Harris, something was wrong with Harris that night if you've watched his career. He was punched out after round 2. They said overtraining. I don't know I just want to see him get a shot when hes 100%.Taki... wrote:Sorry, but how can Harris 'not have been exposed' by being knocked out cold by Maussa and yet Hatton has been exposed by getting caught a couple of times and remaining undefeated? Hyperbole my dear Phenom is not an argument.
Something wrong with him? I can think of several things... he took his eye of the ball by getting into a bickering contest with Mayweather. He took Maussa too lightly. He tried to blast Maussa out (when in truth Maussa isn't the type to lay down early). If training was the issue he looked undertrained rather than over. And when Maussa (who has a bit of a dig on him) hit Harris on the chin, he sparked him... it's not like Harris fell over from exhaustion.Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I never said Hatton had been exposed, I just pointed out hes not invincable. Did you watch Maussa-Harris, something was wrong with Harris that night if you've watched his career. He was punched out after round 2. They said overtraining. I don't know I just want to see him get a shot when hes 100%.Taki... wrote:Sorry, but how can Harris 'not have been exposed' by being knocked out cold by Maussa and yet Hatton has been exposed by getting caught a couple of times and remaining undefeated? Hyperbole my dear Phenom is not an argument.
I wasn't saying Corley was the second coming but hes always been a top10 contender, he is the former WBO. Not many would take Judah to an SD and rock 2 of the top names in the sport like he did. Remember Team Hatton were dubious about putting Ricky in with Corley when he was WBO champ. His comp is top class -Mayweather, Cotto, Judah, Witter. He beat Flores in 1round who went the distance with Collazo and Shamba Mitchell, he beat Randal Bailey and a few other decent lower run namesjamesmcdonnell wrote:If I had a square arse, I'd shit bricks.
Cotto was definetly on unsteady legs for the rest of the round, but Mayweather was actually caning Corley about 15 seconds later, there was nowt wrong with his legs, his balance or his timing, he came right back at Corley the same round.
Corley is a horribly overrated fighter, he got lucky with a temple shot with Cotto, nothing more. I was one of the few who predicted an easy win for Witter over Corley, based on the fact that Corley ain't anything special, and I was entirely right.
Agree largely (but remember over training has the same effect as undertraining). Also when you said he lost because Maussa hit him on the chin. That punch would have done nothing to Harris in the first round. HE was exhausted when that punch landed and when a mans exhausted hes very easy to KO.Taki... wrote:Something wrong with him? I can think of several things... he took his eye of the ball by getting into a bickering contest with Mayweather. He took Maussa too lightly. He tried to blast Maussa out (when in truth Maussa isn't the type to lay down early). If training was the issue he looked undertrained rather than over. And when Maussa (who has a bit of a dig on him) hit Harris on the chin, he sparked him... it's not like Harris fell over from exhaustion.Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I never said Hatton had been exposed, I just pointed out hes not invincable. Did you watch Maussa-Harris, something was wrong with Harris that night if you've watched his career. He was punched out after round 2. They said overtraining. I don't know I just want to see him get a shot when hes 100%.Taki... wrote:Sorry, but how can Harris 'not have been exposed' by being knocked out cold by Maussa and yet Hatton has been exposed by getting caught a couple of times and remaining undefeated? Hyperbole my dear Phenom is not an argument.
Does Harris hit harder than Tyszu? Maybe - remember he stopped Hurtado faster, and stopped Ukral when Tyszu couldn't. He certainly landed his shots against them. He'd be 50-50 against the older Tyszu, especially as older Tyszu wasn't hard to hit. Tyszu also had a good chin but he could be potentially knocked out. Obviously Vince Phillips took him out and Hurtado/Judah put him down or shook him to his bootsjamesmcdonnell wrote:As I thought, you were I think going by reports of the Mayweather fight rather than your own observations. The clip made it look a lot worse than it was, as if Corley came close to stopping him. I went to the trouble to ask someone on here (forget who it was, was it you Stu, and do I still owe you for the Hagler Leonard DVD?), for a copy of the fight.
A split decision loss to Judah looks impressive, until you consider how inconsitent Judah really is. He is a B+ level fighter, who on his worst night is capable of losing to a C level competitor. Judah finds it virtually impossible to concentrate for a whole fight, and has little in the way of an orthodox defence.
Corley is a contender level fighter, but really is quite far from being an elite level fighter, he is quite quick, but very sloppy, and hangs with better fighters more through being awkward in style than anything else.
Witter is not a country mile ahead of him in talent, but I knew technically, despite his flaws, he was too good for the eccentric Corley.
As for Harris and his much vaunted punchpower, well, perhaps, but a bigger puncher than Tszyu at 140? Utter bollocks. Power is nothing without timing, precision and skill, and Harris just wasn't that special, and didn't help himself by not training properly for Maussa, which is the mark of a fighter who ain't world class. When was the last time Hatton or Mayweather came in out of shape.....answer...never.
Yes it was me James, no you don't owe me... although I think I'm going to forget about Paypal next time. Somehow, I cannot get hold of the money - although you have given me the agreed "donation".jamesmcdonnell wrote:As I thought, you were I think going by reports of the Mayweather fight rather than your own observations. The clip made it look a lot worse than it was, as if Corley came close to stopping him. I went to the trouble to ask someone on here (forget who it was, was it you Stu, and do I still owe you for the Hagler Leonard DVD?), for a copy of the fight.
A split decision loss to Judah looks impressive, until you consider how inconsitent Judah really is. He is a B+ level fighter, who on his worst night is capable of losing to a C level competitor. Judah finds it virtually impossible to concentrate for a whole fight, and has little in the way of an orthodox defence.
Corley is a contender level fighter, but really is quite far from being an elite level fighter, he is quite quick, but very sloppy, and hangs with better fighters more through being awkward in style than anything else.
Witter is not a country mile ahead of him in talent, but I knew technically, despite his flaws, he was too good for the eccentric Corley.
As for Harris and his much vaunted punchpower, well, perhaps, but a bigger puncher than Tszyu at 140? Utter bollocks. Power is nothing without timing, precision and skill, and Harris just wasn't that special, and didn't help himself by not training properly for Maussa, which is the mark of a fighter who ain't world class. When was the last time Hatton or Mayweather came in out of shape.....answer...never.
Yes, he's crap. Just like the fighters our supposed superstar Hatton is taking on these days: it's all about levels.Ant Evans wrote:Exactly! Morua is a stiff. I'd tip Thaxton, Khan and a few other Brits to beat him. It's a pathetic, woeful, crappy, non-event. Let's see, Maussa was dross as a first defense after Tszyu but Morua is the Hulk, Darth Vader and Ali rolled into one?Twinkle Toes Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject:
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Witter fighting Morua is a very poor match up, yet the Witter fans just gloss over such a terrible title fight, preferring to slate Hatton instead.
It's comical, hypocritical and it is also pointless discussing Hatton with such people
1. Witter-Hatton would see every boxing fan in the country go to see it. It would get huge publicity (especially if it was for 2belts). Its like saying Mayweather only brings $8m worth of revenue to fight Delahoya - well why is he getting $20m? It is leagues above Calazage-Woods as a fight, which is pretty dull match up. Remember Eubank-Benn - Eubank wasn't a star before Benn either. The style of Witter and Hatton and the similar level of skill would create a great contest.Ant Evans wrote:First off my views posting here are my own, for good or ill. I'm not representing Fight Academy, SecondsOut, Boxing Monthly, Eurosport, UFC or anyone else I freelance for. I just like the debates here - as opposed to the slanging matches at DogHouse - and want to join in.
My personal view is that Hatton/Witter is not a big fight on the level of say Calzaghe v Woods. Witter is deathly boring to watch, hasn't beaten anyone of real note and does not bring a fan base. I am sure die-hard Ricky Hatton fans would love to see their hero KO Witter, but then again they'll buy tickets to see Ricky anyway, so, again, my view is Witter adds nothing to ticket sales.
The Collazo fight was a close one. Watching live, I had one point in it (and two on repeat views). However, Ricky landed more power shots, more jabs, had a better punch percentage plus scored the only knockdown of the fight. Like I say, I've been a Collazo fan since I met him in 2004 and watched him train and I am 100% sure he'll beat the 2007 version of Shane Mosley.
Mr Phenomenal-Nutrition: if you really think Hatton v Witter is a bigger fight than Hatton v Castillo then I doubt I can change your mind. I don't mean to be rude, but surely you are joking?
I gave Witter rounds 1-5 and Kotelnik 6-12, for what it is worth.
So struggling with Lynes and Kotelnik and beating Ndou a shot to bits Corley is better than wins over Magee, Tackie, Maussa, and Collazo? C'mon..."5. Other than the Tyszu win Hattons CV is equal or below Witters/ Yes Witters whole achievement is living in the same country as Witter. A WBC belt and 3 top 10 JWW victories arent as important as that are they"
The reference to how much Witter is probably going to make for his next ho-hum fight was to illustrate just how far adrift Witter is from Hatton in terms of popularity, earning power and drawing power. It wasn't a subtle point I was making. He is the only 'world champion' in the UK getting sub six figures for 'world title' fights.
And, from speaking to Ricky, Ray and the other Team Hatton members, their beef with Witter started when he gate-crashed the post-fight TV interview when Hatton had just beat Jon Thaxton. If you recall, Hatton had come through a hard fight, with blood all over him, and was talking about what the British title win meant for him, and Witter shoved his face in the camera and started BSing about “Give the title up for fight me” etc. Witter has no career other than to badmouth Hatton and hope Hatton turns round to give him scraps from his table.
As it some of your other points:
1) Explain why you think the "British gate would be huge" - if you add Hatton's gate to Witter's gate you get about 70 more people than a normal Hatton gate. It's my 30th birthday in a few months, and I'll get more people to my party than Witter can get to his fights. Witter is not a star, he is not popular and that's because instead of talking up his own career, he's spent more than half a decade rubbishing Hatton's. The British public don't like it, it is boring and when Witter says things like he'd had KO'd Tszyu in four rounds and then can't beat domestic opposition in style he makes himself look a clown. Shame, that, because he's actually a nice enough fella who can give a good interview which isn't based around Hatton.
Benn v Eubank were big fights because they both sold tickets. Hatton is the lone ticket seller in any Hatton v Witter fight.
And yes, Urango DOES make Hatton more because he's had several exciting fights (you may not know what they are, as you're a Witter fan) on ESPN and thus HBO approved him. HBO will not approve Witter, and that won't change as long as Witter continues to give crappy, half-arsed performances like he did against Chop Chop.
2) I agree with you that HBO have double standards (Winky isn't exactly exciting to watch, I know, but I've never seen him stand perfectly still for 30seconds, either) but that's their perogitive. Like I said before, if Witter was a Yank I'm sure they'd love Witter v Hatton. But this is the world we live in and Witter is doing NOTHING to impress anyone with his boring, shakey and phoned-in performances. Serious, what three fights would you send to HBO with a letter headed "Get this guy Witter on HBO before Showtime snap him up?"
3) Witter can't KO Colin Lynes, who was KTFO in his next fight by Lenny Daws, but he'd KO Hatton? OK...
4) You'd probably be interested to know that Dennis Hobson was in talks to make the Mayweather fight for 2007 but then Mayweather accepted the Oscar fight. Mayweather v Oscar is the biggest fight in boxing by some way and it is perfectly sane of Mayweather to go after Oscar. That doesn't mean Floyd is "afraid" of Ricky, though, does it? Sometimes fights just don't happen at a particular time.
Now Ricky has a greater deal of control over his career, he's fighting as good a level of opposition as anyone in boxing, in my view. Maybe Jermain Taylor's run gets the nod, but some people think he's 1-3 in his last four (not me, though).
You're going OTT in order to rip on Hatton and you're clearly not a fan. But I wonder, if Ricky had fought Corley, not Collazo, and was now in camp for Morua. I think you'd be going nuts about it. And you'd be right to.
James - Ricky feels that Witter is way below him and that not giving Witter a pay day is the best revenge for all the badmouthing. It is down to Witter to fight good opposition (why isn't he fighting all those names listed above instead of a nothing fight against Morua?) and get himself into the big league he is so far adrift of.
And Billy Graham is on record in saying that he'd love Ricky to fight Cotto at 140lbs, but wouldn't jump right up to 147lbs to fight Cotto, so you're on the same page.
1. Witters actually become a local celebrity in his hometown Bradford after his title win. The fight would get publicity as an all British title fight. Again every British boxing fan wants this, its the no1 domestic clash. Calazage-Woods is an irrelevant fight. You think Calazage-Woods would be fantastic because Woods is a FA fighter. Woods is a nice bloke but Calazage certainly has far bigger fights than him and the fight would be a snooze and possibly an easy UD. And I like Woods allot more than Joe who I thinks a bit of twat.Ant Evans wrote:I'm not so sure that British fans would want to the Witter fight instead of a Castillo fight. And you say "esp if it was for two belts" - well Ricky has to fight Urango in order to get a belt back. We disagree on Calzaghe v Woods, which I think would be a fantastic fight, but that's fair enough. And Eubank's personality, Barry Hearn and terrestrial TV fights made him a star going into the first Benn fight. Honestly, who outside hardcore boxing knows Witter?1. Witter-Hatton would see every boxing fan in the country go to see it. It would get huge publicity (especially if it was for 2belts). Its like saying Mayweather only brings $8m worth of revenue to fight Delahoya - well why is he getting $20m? It is leagues above Calazage-Woods as a fight, which is pretty dull match up. Remember Eubank-Benn - Eubank wasn't a star before Benn either. The style of Witter and Hatton and the similar level of skill would create a great contest.
Castillo isn't a real fight??!?!?!?2. The Hattons won't fight Witter because they don't give the public real contests and are happy to fight easy fights.
C'mon! Be real. If anyone is degrading anyone is it Witter constantly trying to rip on Hatton. And fighting Tszyu, Maussa (who, whatever you say, KO'd Harris which is more than Witter has ever done), Collazo, Urango and Castillo are a funny way of avoiding anyone.3. I am actually a Hatton fan, I'm not a fan of Team Hatton and the degrading of Witter to make Hattons DUCKING acceptable!
He's not my favourite fighting, no. Whenever I've interviewed him, I come away thinking he's a decent enough fella but I think he needs to find his own place in the world. He's been gifted a WBC title, so why not defend it against a real contender, bang him out, and repeat until he's not a poor relation to Hatton? Because, quite clearly after six years, bitching and moaning about Ricky isn't doing his career much good.4. Your posts reeks of bias against Witter - he can be very exciting at times. Scoring rounds 6 and 12 against Kotelnik against Witter also reeks of bias.
If you tell me that Witter won rounds 6 and 12 v Kotelnik I'll gladly believe you. The fight happened a while ago and I recalled giving 1-5 to Junior and the rest to the challenger. I may be in error but, believe me, I'm not ever watching that 'fight' again to check!
You make some solid points. But no way is Kotelniks on Collazo's level, his win over Abdulev was a good one, but it was an EBU level win and not the same as Collazo's over Jose Rivera.5. Addressing Hatton and Witters comp: Ndou is better than Tackie we can tell that because Ndou was robbed against Mitchell who won every round against Tackie. Collazos good but unproven, Kotelniks on his level after picking up a win against Abdulev. Corley is a leage above Magee and Maussa. REMEMBER THOUGH HATTON CAN GET ANY FIGHT HE WANTS AND TURNS THE BIG FIGHTS DOWN. WIITER WILL FIGHT ANY TOP FIGHTER ANYTIME THATS THE DIFFERENCE
Hatton clearly can't get any fight he wants, or he would have fought Baldomir in May rather than HBO ensuring Gatti got there instead. The only fighter on the planet who has the power to do and fight as he pleases is named Oscar.
Witter will fight any top fighter, anytime? Maybe, but he's fighting a stiff next month, though, isn't he?
DKP seems to think their man has the Mosley fight... we'll see. I hope Louie does get it, as I think him v Shane will be a fantastic bout and I think HBO own Collazo one after stepping in to fight Hatton at seven and a half weeks notice.6. I picked Collazo to give Ricky a hard time - see my pre-fight posts. HEs good, I rate Witter above him though. Hes not fighting Mosley, Mosleys going for the belt from Cintron.
By that logic, Mayweather "ducked" Hatton and when he signed to fight Oscar.7. The Hattons wanted $13m to fight Mayweather talking about pricing yourself out. There probably wouldn't be $20m in the pott. Is it 5 or 6 offers that have been turned down from Mayweather now?
WHAT?8. Hattons last 3 opponents have been very poorTszyu was very poor? Maussa, who was a journeyman contender turned champion, I admit, was "VERY POOR", not even "half good" or even "average". Collazo was VERY POOR? Didn't you just state above that you "picked Collazo to give Ricky a hard time - see my pre-fight posts. HEs good".
I think you are very confused and I think I know why. You're standing on eggshells trying to build a nonsensial case for having Witter above Hatton, for Witter's CV rated better than Hatton's etc etc and you've just fallen on you arse and completely contradicted yourself within the space of 20 seconds.Mighty Warrior - my views are my own. And fighting and beating world champions is how a fighter build a career worthy of rememberance. If Hatton beats Urango (and unbeaten young power-puncher, if nothing else) and Castillo and then a third man in 2007, sure that adds to what he's achieved. Surely if he continues to fight good to great opposition (and I think Tszyu and Castillo are great opponents while Maussa, Collazo and Urango are varying degrees of "good") he'll slowly but surley build himself a legacy.Ant, you are no doubt blinded by the fact that you have the ear of the team Hatton, and are willing to accept these never ending marking time fights as acceptable.
Surely you'd prefer Collazo to Tocker Pudwill or Will MacIntyre and Urango and Maussa to Branco Sobot and Evans Ashira?
Not interested in answering the questions I posed previously Ant? I don't think my business knowledge of the matter is way off centre but if you have any inside info please share it. I've enjoyed the debate too and welcome to the forum.Ant Evans wrote:I think you're way off base on a lot of things, and don't seem to have a real grasp of the business side of things, but enjoyed the debate.
I personally would like to see Calzaghe v Woods (and Calzaghe v Froch, actually) rather than Hatton v Witter but that's just personal choice.
Oh my god thats bullshit.I'm not so sure that British fans would want to the Witter fight instead of a Castillo fight.
Strange, I've not had any problems with paypal myself. I'm going to have a look at the list of transactions, see if there's anything odd going on.stujones wrote:Yes it was me James, no you don't owe me... although I think I'm going to forget about Paypal next time. Somehow, I cannot get hold of the money - although you have given me the agreed "donation".jamesmcdonnell wrote:As I thought, you were I think going by reports of the Mayweather fight rather than your own observations. The clip made it look a lot worse than it was, as if Corley came close to stopping him. I went to the trouble to ask someone on here (forget who it was, was it you Stu, and do I still owe you for the Hagler Leonard DVD?), for a copy of the fight.
A split decision loss to Judah looks impressive, until you consider how inconsitent Judah really is. He is a B+ level fighter, who on his worst night is capable of losing to a C level competitor. Judah finds it virtually impossible to concentrate for a whole fight, and has little in the way of an orthodox defence.
Corley is a contender level fighter, but really is quite far from being an elite level fighter, he is quite quick, but very sloppy, and hangs with better fighters more through being awkward in style than anything else.
Witter is not a country mile ahead of him in talent, but I knew technically, despite his flaws, he was too good for the eccentric Corley.
As for Harris and his much vaunted punchpower, well, perhaps, but a bigger puncher than Tszyu at 140? Utter bollocks. Power is nothing without timing, precision and skill, and Harris just wasn't that special, and didn't help himself by not training properly for Maussa, which is the mark of a fighter who ain't world class. When was the last time Hatton or Mayweather came in out of shape.....answer...never.
Its definately left your bank, but its in paypal... I bought a small item there, they took it off my funds (i.e. your money) and I still got charged by my credit card.
No worries about it.
The average bod in the street wouldn't know who Witter or Castillo were. Witter's performances on terrestrial TV have not exactly set the back pages aflame with superlatives.Max Molyneux wrote:Oh my god thats bullshit.I'm not so sure that British fans would want to the Witter fight instead of a Castillo fight.
How many British fans have heard of Castillo more than Witter.
I'm favouring Witter the way Hatton's going, Witter is staying disciplined.
[/quote]Ant Evans wrote: I really don't see how Hatton could have fought better opposition in the last two years (from summer 2005-summer 2007). Name me five fighters who've faced better opposition in five fights compared to Ricky fighting Tszyu, Maussa, Collazo, Urango, Castillo.
But I'm sure the guys at Fight Academy will take your views as a compliment. You obviously seem to think Dennis could have delievered Mayweather, Cotto and King Kong for Ricky. Funny you don't seem to complain about Witter's opponents, or maybe you think this jabroni Morua is the best Hennessey can do?
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