BoxRec

Decagon wrote:Lennox Lewis ducked Dominick Guinn. At one point, Guinn's manager confronted Lewis, asking for Guinn to get a title shot, but Lewis started pretending to talk on his cell phone!

I also heard Lewis said no to a Frans Botha rematch.

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:

Decagon wrote:Lennox Lewis ducked Dominick Guinn. At one point, Guinn's manager confronted Lewis, asking for Guinn to get a title shot, but Lewis started pretending to talk on his cell phone!

What did Guinn do to deserve a shot at Lewis?
So every other B grade fighter who didn't get a shot at Lewis, do they accuse him of ducking them? He can't fight everyone out there!
Fighters who haven't climbed the heavyweight ladder should keep their mouths shut.
You'll be saying next DannyWilliams and Audley Harrison were calling out Lewis when they had done nothing to deserve a shot at him

I think Decagon was joking!

Would like to clear up a point I made in a earlier post,I compared Joe Mesi to Gerry Cooney,only in the fact he is a white American heavy who much of America would love to see as a champion and would probally have doors open up for him quicker than his skills deserve. As for comparing Skills ect,Cooney was a far more formidable fighter than Mesi,and fought a brave and great fight against Holmes.

This thread is beat to death..but I just felt a need to come and close the loop.
Clearly, some of you are just too dedicated Lewis fans to confess what the rest of the world knows..and even you know at some level. That Lewis, while being a solid champ, does not qualify as an all time great, and never forged an era or a legacy.
PROOF that you know it, is that it was brought up in the first place and was so eagerly verbally attended too.
I bet you all get all choked up when Lewis says "Absolutely Jim" huh ?

I will give you all the benefit of the doubt that you got caught up in the heat of debate with some of the sillyness you posted.
Discounting an undefeated fighter that beat three top 15 fighters in a row, two of which have had title fights since, and knocking out one in under 2 minutes
Claiming that a fight with an opponent who was in the middle of a 3 fight deal with HBO, and was the Buzz of the boxing media would have been a "non event"
Judging the career and potential of another undefeated fighter, by ONE fight, and a fight that he WON no less !

Come on guys, being a fan is one thing, disregarding and attempting to rewrite history is another.

My point was best made, although grossly overstated, by IrishRufusMurphy in the very first post of this thread.

Most people when they hear Lennox Lewis’s name come up instantly start branding him as being ‘not good enough’ and that the majority of Heavyweight champions before him would have destroyed him

No..he WAS "good enough" , but good enough is not historic. It is just that, "Good Enough"

And no...the majority of Heavyweight champions before him would NOT have destroyed him. Many however, achieved far more then him, and left a more profound mark then him. There were also some of his contemporaries, that would have and some who did, beat him.

What former champs would have beat Lewis ? Actually, very few. In their primes... Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Frazier, Tyson, Bowe, and that’s about it.
Those who try to rank fighters over a century on a "head to head" basis are way off base.
The fact is, head to head, pre 1960 HWs, with a few exceptions, would be vanquished by most top 10 fighters of today. Sheer size and strength make it an Apples and Oranges comparison.
When I rank fighters, it is based on achievement and how they ruled and competed in the division AT THE TIME. To do otherwise, is like comparing the Roman legions with the US marines.

Sorry guys, I give your fighter a B+, most people give him a B. All the posturing, degrading of other fighters, and revisionist history is not going to get him an A, and certainly not an A+

cosand wrote: When I rank fighters, it is based on achievement and how they ruled and competed in the division AT THE TIME. To do otherwise, is like comparing the Roman legions with the US marines.

So in terms of achievement and how the ruled and competed in the divison, who are the 40 heavyweihgts you place above Lewis?

Please write them down.

Thanks,
P

PS: the rest of your post didn't contain anything of note that would necessiate a response.

I am a man of my word, and I give you my word that while I have to get off the PC for the night, I will furnish that list, if not tomorrow, before the weekend is out
When I do, just keep in mind...THIS will be the critera

1 Fighters who showed a willingness to fight anyone
2 Fighters who "came to fight", regardless of the compitition
3 Fighters who by no attribute of their own, simply had a more impressive array of figghters to choose as opponets
4 Fighters who would never take a win via a questionable stoppage, and walk away without proving himself the better fighter
5 Fighters who welcomed a "new wave " of contender, and would never imagine at least not attempting to taking one out to prove his supremicy

All will have one or more of those claims to fame

Not all 40 were champions, not all were "better" then Lewis, not all of them had only 2 3, 4 or even 5 losses, but all will have a bigger place in history then Lewis, even if it was just a part of someone elses legacy.

Some will no doubt lose focus, and say things like.."are you kidding, he couldnt even....... didnt even...lost to....never beat......"
etc

But remember, we are talking about lagacy, impact on the sport, courage etc.

I will tell you that one of the fighters that will be toward the bottom on my list is Greg Peralta.
If you reject that outright, and don't see where he meets the criteria I laid out above..let me know..and I will save the bandwidth and a bunch of keystrokes, cause you just won't get it.

cosand wrote: When I do, just keep in mind...THIS will be the critera

1 Fighters who showed a willingness to fight anyone

Fine, LL has a score of 10 out of 10.

2 Fighters who "came to fight", regardless of the compitition

LL always came to fight, but a couple of times he came in sloppy and unprepared.

8 out of 10.

3 Fighters who by no attribute of their own, simply had a more impressive array of figghters to choose as opponets

No clue what this means, unless you refer to the oeverall quality of the era. There the Tyson-Holyfield-Bowe-Lewis era ranks 3rd in my view, only surpassed by the 1970s and 1990s.

8 out of 10.

4 Fighters who would never take a win via a questionable stoppage, and walk away without proving himself the better fighter

9 out of 10.

(the only doubtful case is the Mercer fight)

5 Fighters who welcomed a "new wave " of contender, and would never imagine at least not attempting to taking one out to prove his supremicy

10 out of 10.

Golota, Tua, Rahman, Vitali -- LL took on plentiful deserving contenders even though he did not have to.

I'd be very surprised if you could put together a credible list with 20 names beating this record, beware of 40.

Peralta, a gutsy, crafty fellow who figured out George Foreman surprisingly well, but who was also one-and-half levels below world class, does of course NOT belong above Lewis.

Cheers,
P

let me sum it up this way,,,and with your permission, avoid the hair spliting and screaming fits my list will produce.
Then I DO have to go for now.....

If Lewis:
Was not fighting stiffs like Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune and Phil Jackson at a time he should have been hunting conteders
Fought Tyson on the way up
Had not lost to the likes of an Oliver Mccall
Had not spent his early title years fighting the Mavrovics, Grants and Morrisons of the world.
Had not so often looked like he would have rather been at a Pub then in the ring
Foughtt Bowe (Anything can be negotiated)
Had not only accepted, but insisted on a chance to redeem his performence against Mercer
Taken a fight in between the Tyson and Klitschko fights
Given Vitali a re match
If he beat Vittali in the second figght, fought virtually ANY top 10ish contender to finish off his career.

Then I would have humbly agreed that There had been a genuine Lewis 'era"

Not much to ask for really.

These are the differences between Lewis, and the fighters I would place above him.
To use Greg Peralta as an example;
Here is a guy who refused to quit.
He screamed at the ref to let him contine against Pastrono
When he went down against Bonavena, he summond up all he had and got up and continued. (get the idea?)
He had no reason to go after Forman a second time, the first fight was a great moral victory, but he demanded another shot. The same with his fights with Ron Lyle. he was not going end his career until he proved to himself and the world he belonged in the ring with a fighter like him. He managed a draw.

This is what i mean by history and legacy, or the lack there of

Be well for now..

cosand wrote:let me sum it up this way,,,and with your permission, avoid the hair spliting and screaming fits my list will produce.
Then I DO have to go for now.....

If Lewis:
Was not fighting stiffs like Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune and Phil Jackson at a time he should have been hunting conteders

Irrelevant. It's the best you fight that matter, not the worst.

Fought Tyson on the way up

Implies that this was LL's fault, which is untrue

Had not lost to the likes of an Oliver Mccall

Little relevant because avenged.

Had not spent his early title years fighting the Mavrovics, Grants and Morrisons of the world.

See above.

Had not so often looked like he would have rather been at a Pub then in the ring

News to me.

Fought Bowe (Anything can be negotiated)

Bowe ducked Lewis. You can only figfht an opponent who is willing to.

Had not only accepted, but insisted on a chance to redeem his performence against Mercer

A small stain on LL's record.

Taken a fight in between the Tyson and Klitschko fights

What on earth would that have been good for?

Given Vitali a re match

Why? 38 is a nice and solid age to retire.

If he beat Vittali in the second figght, fought virtually ANY top 10ish contender to finish off his career.

LL should have fought until he was 45??

Then I would have humbly agreed that There had been a genuine Lewis 'era"
Not much to ask for really.

Pretty silly and irrelevant things to ask for.

These are the differences between Lewis, and the fighters I would place above him.
To use Greg Peralta as an example;
Here is a guy who refused to quit.

When did LL quit?

He screamed at the ref to let him contine against Pastrono

LL wanted to continue against McCall.

When he went down against Bonavena, he summond up all he had and got up and continued. (get the idea?)

Not really.

He had no reason to go after Forman a second time, the first fight was a great moral victory,

But a clear-cut defeat by a large margin

but he demanded another shot.

... only to be KOed the secdon time.

The same with his fights with Ron Lyle. he was not going end his career until he proved to himself and the world he belonged in the ring with a fighter like him. He managed a draw.

This is what i mean by history and legacy, or the lack there of

Be well for now..

Seems you want to compile a courage ATG list. That may be an interesting idea; folks like Jim Braddock, Floyd Patterson, or Jerry Quarry would be very high on this one.

But the request was for a boxing ATG list.

Cheers,
P

cosand wrote:let me sum it up this way,,,and with your permission, avoid the hair spliting and screaming fits my list will produce.
Then I DO have to go for now.....

If Lewis:
Was not fighting stiffs like Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune and Phil Jackson at a time he should have been hunting conteders
Fought Tyson on the way up
Had not lost to the likes of an Oliver Mccall
Had not spent his early title years fighting the Mavrovics, Grants and Morrisons of the world.
Had not so often looked like he would have rather been at a Pub then in the ring
Foughtt Bowe (Anything can be negotiated)
Had not only accepted, but insisted on a chance to redeem his performence against Mercer
Taken a fight in between the Tyson and Klitschko fights
Given Vitali a re match
If he beat Vittali in the second figght, fought virtually ANY top 10ish contender to finish off his career.

Then I would have humbly agreed that There had been a genuine Lewis 'era"

Not much to ask for really.

These are the differences between Lewis, and the fighters I would place above him.
To use Greg Peralta as an example;
Here is a guy who refused to quit.
He screamed at the ref to let him contine against Pastrono
When he went down against Bonavena, he summond up all he had and got up and continued. (get the idea?)
He had no reason to go after Forman a second time, the first fight was a great moral victory, but he demanded another shot. The same with his fights with Ron Lyle. he was not going end his career until he proved to himself and the world he belonged in the ring with a fighter like him. He managed a draw.

This is what i mean by history and legacy, or the lack there of

Be well for now..

Mate, you are in a fantasy world.

If you've read more than one or two of my posts, you'll know I'm not a big fan of Lewis but you are talking crapola, my friend.

Lewis, when he got bombed by Madman McCall, got up and tried to get himself steadied and wanted to fight on. I thought the ref was right to stop it but Lewis was willing to continue. He showed balls (as well as a dodgy chin).

Get off Peralta's nuts and smell the coffee. You made a post several months ago claiming Peralta BEAT some of the greatest fighters of his era. I called you on that and you have yet to offer up the names.

You know when the challenge was made to compile a list of 40 HW's who woud be favored (later 'who would beat') over Lennox Lewis, I tried to make that list and despite considering myself an expert a the HW division, at least in a historical sense, I could not bring myself to find any more than 15 fighters who would have been favored and/or beaten Lewis.

The list goes as:

Ali
Foreman (prime/80-90's)
Frazier
Liston
Wills
Walcott
Charles
Godfrey
Dempsey*
Marciano*
Johnson
Holmes
Tyson (prime)
Holyfield (prime)
Louis
Klitschko------------JUST KIDDING!

*Both men fought in a way that would have penetrated Lewis' weakness, which was his inability to infight, Lewis also carried his hands low. Marciano's non-stop punching and conditioning, Dempsey's speed, agility and punching power would have been tough for Lewis. They didn't call Dempsey 'The Giant Killer' for nothing.

Walcott,Godfrey,Charles,Dempsey, Marciano,and Johnson would have all lost to Lewis, and in very ugly fashion. Dempsey and Marciano would have gotten the worst of it because of thier aggression. Dempsey killed the "Giants" of his era. Fighters who had very little else to offer besides thier size.

Tyson,Holyfield, Liston and Louis are arguable.

Ali, Holmes Frazier and Foreman, I agree with you.

I hate when Wills name comes up. Theres no real way to gauge how tough he was. I get the sense he gets somewhat overrated just because of the harsh circumstances of the era he fought in. So i never include him on these list.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:You know when the challenge was made to compile a list of 40 HW's who woud be favored (later 'who would beat') over Lennox Lewis, I tried to make that list and despite considering myself an expert a the HW division, at least in a historical sense, I could not bring myself to find any more than 15 fighters who would have been favored and/or beaten Lewis.

The list goes as:

Ali
Foreman (prime/80-90's)
Frazier
Liston
Wills
Walcott
Charles
Godfrey
Dempsey*
Marciano*
Johnson
Holmes
Tyson (prime)
Holyfield (prime)
Louis
Klitschko------------JUST KIDDING!

*Both men fought in a way that would have penetrated Lewis' weakness, which was his inability to infight, Lewis also carried his hands low. Marciano's non-stop punching and conditioning, Dempsey's speed, agility and punching power would have been tough for Lewis. They didn't call Dempsey 'The Giant Killer' for nothing.

Lewis would not have lost to half the people on that list.
Godfrey? Charles? Walcott? Willis? Don't make me laugh.

Yeah Dempsey could demolish giants, ones with no skill.
There is a big difference between lewis and Jess Willard in terms of skill and power.

Lewis is either a giant man with skill so there fore he's unbeatbale or he's a glass-jawed coward who would get blown away by a cruiserweight with a decent punch.

All the greats can beat one another and IMO lewis was a great fighter. I don't put him in the elite group (for me that's Ali, Louis, Johnson and Holmes) but he can hang with Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Dempsey, Holyfield...etc...

It's about styles once you get into these brackets because there's little to choose between the top fighters.

Lewis could be KO'd by single shots but if it was that easy to do how comes it only happened twice? Lewis was never really mastered in the ring. His ability was solid. Against the most formidable bangers he would lose a few. I also feel he would have trouble with fast paced fighters with stamina. if he couldn't get them out early he'd get gassed and stopped.

Decagon



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4427

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:03 am Post subject:

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cosand wrote:
Discounting an undefeated fighter that beat three top 15 fighters in a row, two of which have had title fights since, and knocking out one in under 2 minutes
cosand wrote:
If Lewis:
Was not fighting stiffs like Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune and Phil Jackson at a time he should have been hunting conteders... Then I would have humbly agreed that There had been a genuine Lewis 'era"
The three worst opponents Lewis fought are better than the three best opponents Mesi fought. Phil Jackson had knocked out Carl "Truth" Williams and was 30-1. Lionel Butler was riding a long win-streak that included a first-round win over Tony Tubbs, and the fight was a WBC eliminator. Justin Fortune had a high WBC ranking based on his OPBF Heavyweight Championship. Lewis was playing the game when he fought Butler and Fortune, trying to get another shot at the WBC title. That's how the game's played, little man.

Phil Jackson was pretty well ranked too, and you say that Lewis was fighting him instead of facing contenders?!?!?! Then how come in the year and a half preceding the Jackson fight, Lewis faced Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker and Frank Bruno? In four fights over the 18 months from October of 1992 to May of 1994, Lewis got in the ring with 3 top-10 heavyweights.

Joe Mesi fought DaVarryl Williamson and Monte Barrett, and nearly got killed by Vassily Jirov, somehow squeeking out decisions in the last two fights. I don't see how any of them were top-15 fighters when Mesi beat them. Beating T-Rex Sanders, an ancient Tim Witherspoon or Ernest Mateen isn't exactly a ticket to the top 15, you know. Barrett might have passed for a top-10 or -15 fighter later on, mostly based on the hype surrounding the aptly named "Southern Disaster," but the other two were never top-15 heavyweights

So let me get this right...just so i'm sure...you just ranked Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune and Phil Jackson, ABOVE TOS, Barrett and Jirov ?
You are kidding me right ?

BTW, you are incorrect, Barrett, Jirov and TOS were all ranked in the top 15 by the WBC at the time Mesi fought them. In the 30 round that were schedualed for the three fights, Mesi needed 21 to win all 3, and was pitching an 8 round shut out agaginst Jirov when Jirov threw an illegal blow that caused an injury, and should have resulted in an immediate DQ.
Can you see Lewis fighting and survibing two rounds with a brain injury ?
Not in a million years

Decagon, most of your posts are right on the money, but when you get on the subject of Mesi, and Lewis so it seems, you totally lose your prospective. Don't feel bad, you are not alone. I have a theory on the Mesi haters..I suspect is what I call "Morrison-Cooney, I wont be fooled again syndrome".
But that is another discussion.
Amazing how the haters bash a 33-0 HW, yet argue that a current fighter who lost to Pruiity and Sanders, or in Lewis's case Mccall and Rahman, are two of the greatest HWs of the past 15 years, if not all time !.,,,It is a bit...no..it is MOST bizzare

cosand wrote: BTW, you are incorrect, Barrett, Jirov and TOS were all ranked in the top 15 by the WBC at the time Mesi fought them.

They were three insignifcant second-tier contneders; and Mesi had far too many difficulties with them to be considered more than second-tier himself.

cosand wrote:Decagon



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 4427

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:03 am Post subject:

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cosand wrote:
Discounting an undefeated fighter that beat three top 15 fighters in a row, two of which have had title fights since, and knocking out one in under 2 minutes
cosand wrote:
If Lewis:
Was not fighting stiffs like Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune and Phil Jackson at a time he should have been hunting conteders... Then I would have humbly agreed that There had been a genuine Lewis 'era"
The three worst opponents Lewis fought are better than the three best opponents Mesi fought. Phil Jackson had knocked out Carl "Truth" Williams and was 30-1. Lionel Butler was riding a long win-streak that included a first-round win over Tony Tubbs, and the fight was a WBC eliminator. Justin Fortune had a high WBC ranking based on his OPBF Heavyweight Championship. Lewis was playing the game when he fought Butler and Fortune, trying to get another shot at the WBC title. That's how the game's played, little man.

Phil Jackson was pretty well ranked too, and you say that Lewis was fighting him instead of facing contenders?!?!?! Then how come in the year and a half preceding the Jackson fight, Lewis faced Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker and Frank Bruno? In four fights over the 18 months from October of 1992 to May of 1994, Lewis got in the ring with 3 top-10 heavyweights.

Joe Mesi fought DaVarryl Williamson and Monte Barrett, and nearly got killed by Vassily Jirov, somehow squeeking out decisions in the last two fights. I don't see how any of them were top-15 fighters when Mesi beat them. Beating T-Rex Sanders, an ancient Tim Witherspoon or Ernest Mateen isn't exactly a ticket to the top 15, you know. Barrett might have passed for a top-10 or -15 fighter later on, mostly based on the hype surrounding the aptly named "Southern Disaster," but the other two were never top-15 heavyweights

So let me get this right...just so i'm sure...you just ranked Lionel Butler, Justin Fortune and Phil Jackson, ABOVE TOS, Barrett and Jirov ?
You are kidding me right ?

BTW, you are incorrect, Barrett, Jirov and TOS were all ranked in the top 15 by the WBC at the time Mesi fought them. In the 30 round that were schedualed for the three fights, Mesi needed 21 to win all 3, and was pitching an 8 round shut out agaginst Jirov when Jirov threw an illegal blow that caused an injury, and should have resulted in an immediate DQ.
Can you see Lewis fighting and survibing two rounds with a brain injury ?
Not in a million years

Decagon, most of your posts are right on the money, but when you get on the subject of Mesi, and Lewis so it seems, you totally lose your prospective. Don't feel bad, you are not alone. I have a theory on the Mesi haters..I suspect is what I call "Morrison-Cooney, I wont be fooled again syndrome".
But that is another discussion.
Amazing how the haters bash a 33-0 HW, yet argue that a current fighter who lost to Pruiity and Sanders, or in Lewis's case Mccall and Rahman, are two of the greatest HWs of the past 15 years, if not all time !.,,,It is a bit...no..it is MOST bizzare

Who here is claiming Wladimir Klitschko is one of the greatest heavies of the last 15 years,if not all time????

So,winning a very contoroversial decision over Monte Barret(that modern day legend)and pitching an 8 round shutout before getting your mind scrambled against a cruiser who achieved absolutely fvck all at heavyweight means something?
It showed Mesi up for what he was all along,a mediocre,grade B(thats being kind)heavyweight who just happened to be from the right part of town and have the right ethnic background needed to overhype his actual ability.
Honestly,a prime Mesi would get starched against any of todays current champs,let alone a certified great like Lennox Lewis.

Joe Mesi was a creation of the media. I'm not saying he was a bad fighter, nobody gets that many wins, despite some against second and third tier fighters, with that many kayos without having some kinda power and ability---but in the case of the Barrett fight, it showed that he was able to get hurt, get confused, get in trouble, and Barrett is not anything to scream over.

Then you place him in with Jirov, whose just making his debut at HW. Now, if there could have been an easier fight for Mesi it should have been this as Jirov had little concept of defense, he blocked punches with his face for crying out loud. Being a cruiserweight champion or not, Mesi as great as a HW as he was being hyped up to be shouldn't have had such problems with a man who was smaller, had no defense and showed that he couldn't make a successful move to HW---with loses to an old Moorer and drawing with an old Orlin Norris.

Yes it was Mesi's first genuine test, but had the fight been 12 rounds, Mesi would have been knocked out or easily lost by points, he would have went down again, and rarely does anyone in boxing win a decision after being knocked down three times unless a fix was in or someone picked up the pace.

One thing is for certain...Mesi will never be a top contender again, and anyone who thinks he can or would ever again be close to a title shot, or even a threat to anyone in the top ten is on drugs or mentally retarded.

Anyone watching RINGSIDE on Lennox Lewis? I think its pretty good thus far, showing how Lewis wasn't too good technically until the Morrison fight, as he showed against Bruno that he was losing rounds.

I think it's crazy what Morrison said that guys like Louis, Marciano and other HW's from the past couldn't take on the guys of today, let alone beat them because they are 'bigger, faster, stronger' and that he felt that Marciano couldn't have even beaten him.

If anything the HW division has shown that its' gotten heavier and more lackidasical with guys sucking wind after four rounds. And if Michael Bentt could knock Morrison out in a round, then imagine what Marciano would have done to him? It would have been the Mercer-Morrison fight all over again! With maybe Morrison's head flying into the third row.

Not to knock Morrison, he is not just another 'white hope', just a guy who was moved too soon and tested his mettle against guys who were in their prime and in their element. I might take some heat for that but oh well, that's my opinion.

I still think the Lewis-Mercer fight gets closer and closer everytime I watch it and I think the decision should have been a draw. Lewis did prove he had a chin, had heart and Mercer showed to the world he was worthy as hell to get a shot at the title and could handle himself well against much larger men, its unfortunate that he never did.

Atm revisiting the Lewis-Briggs fight. Titanic showdown in some people's minds, but to me, it was a mismatch as Briggs won the 'lineal' title in a controversial decision over a 48 year old George Foreman, and before that Briggs was a relative unknown beating alot of mediocre opposition. Lewis, on the other hand, was at the peak of his powers and was only getting better.

Author Message
Decagon Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:20 am Post subject:

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cosand wrote:
Amazing how the haters bash a 33-0 HW



Brian Nielsen was once 49-0

Lou Savarese was once 36-0

Gary Mason was 35-0

Michael Grant was 31-0

Henry Akinwande was 32-0-1

John Dino Dennis was 28-0-1

Vaughn Bean was 27-0

Gerald Nobles was 24-0

Butterbean was 63-1-3

Peter McNeely was 36-1
... and they all sucked.

Even though those are CLASSIC apples and oranges straw man examples....thank you for making my point for me !

Lewis was only 24-0 when He LOST "His 0", and his paper WBC title to McCall !! So what does that say for him ?

See how your anti-logic has fails you once again ?

But that's cool..really.

The origin of the word "fan" is "fanatic"
keep up the good work !

Decagon Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject:

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Your only reason for saying that Mesi was any good was that he had a 33-0 record. I provided a counterexample to the line of logic, saying that being undefeated doesn't mean much. Lewis fought better fighters in his first 19 bouts (before Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno and McCall) than Mesi did in his entire, crappy, not-even-memorable career.

I can't see that Mesi was ever even as good as Mason.

I find it am using that for the many examples I gave to make my point about Lewis, you and a few others chose to jump on one that I emphisized the least. All I pointed out, is that Mesi called out Lewis in the international media, at a time when Mesi WAS, if you choose to admit it or not, a top 5 WBC rannked fighter, and at a time when his position, be it real or media induced, would have made a BIG pay day for Lewis, as well as a diggnified and positive exit, IF he had won the fight.

By the way Mesi's fights, From McNight through Jirov, (with the exception of Currie, who was a last minuite replacement) were MORE then on par for ANY HW in their 21st -28th fights.
Yes I know, lewis was just getting into his more competitive fights at around fight 25, but......he LOST one of them as well.


I also notice you refer to Mesi in the past tense, and that is incorrect.
He in fact, has a 10 rounder coming up next month. His opponent has not yet been announced, but I happen to know with about 80% certainty through my asssociations who the top 15ish opponent will be. When he wins that one, I can hardly wait to see what the haters will come up with then.
Things like this I am willing to bet;
Mesi lost 3 rounds..it was a razor thin controversial decision !!!!!!!
He hadn't fought since June, he was rusty !
He was too old ! 6 months earlier, he would have KILLED Mesi
He had the flu !
So what, the guy he beat in June, wasnt really that good anyway !
He was too tall. he had to punch down at Mesi, if he were shorter, he would have KILLED him !
His dad just has prostate surgery, he was distracted !
Mesi didnt Knock him out ! See he sucks !
Mesi Knocked him out, it was a lucky punch !
So what if Mesi's opponets trainer hit him with a baseball bat in the 8th round and Mesi hung on to win, if you get injured by a 5'10, 170 lb trainer, you must suck !
His opponent's cat died the night of the weigh in ! And he LOVED that cat !
But, but, but...Mesi will lost the next time..you just wait and see !!!!

Lewis would have KO's Mesi and early!

If Jirov a blown up cruiser can knock Meis around like a ping pong ball, its frightening to think what Lewis, one of the most pwoerful HWs ever, would have done him

Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:Lewis would have KO's Mesi and early!

If Jirov a blown up cruiser can knock Meis around like a ping pong ball, its frightening to think what Lewis, one of the most pwoerful HWs ever, would have done him

Too true.

Lewis -v- Mesi is not even a fight.

As of yet Mesi has yet to beat anyone good. His two close wins over Jirov and Barrett indicate that he wasn't for real. If his career was over now he shouldn't be remembered as anything special.
If he does starting beating some good fighters then he should get some respect. Until then, he doesn't deserve considered a good fighter, much less a great one.

Decagon Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:37 am Post subject:

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Mesi hasn't fought a top-15 fighter in his life. Why do you suppose that he's going to fight one on his current "I don't really suck that much," bum-of-the-half-year tour?

Actually, as we have already reviewed, he fought 3 of them, and won each time.
Good LORD Dracagan,,are you a member of the flat earth society ?
Why do you keep making that same silly statement, when anyone who can read can go to the 2004 WBC abd WBA rankings, and see that it is a bare faced lie ????
Do you think if you keep saying it, over and over again, it might somehow become true ?
Pssst...It wont


Syntax Error Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject:

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Heartbreak_Kid79 wrote:
Lewis would have KO's Mesi and early!

If Jirov a blown up cruiser can knock Meis around like a ping pong ball, its frightening to think what Lewis, one of the most pwoerful HWs ever, would have done him

Why was lewis going to throw an illegal overhand right to the back of Mesi's head, and then end up losing the fight on points anyway like Jirov did ?

Hummm...you might be on to something there !

Too true.

Lewis -v- Mesi is not even a fight.

You are correct ! It wasnt a fight. Why ? Because after being called out in the national and international media by the #4 ranked WBC contender, Lewis ..well...ummmmm...declined
:(

What a man of grat integrity Lewis must be ! To turn down a fight, that would have netted him 7 figures, against a guy who YOU guys claim, would have been a walk in the park....LOL..NOT

Anyway....Lets talk about this in February, when Baby Joe is still undefeated, probably top 25 ranked (if the opponent who is on the hook follows through), and Lewis is still regarded by 90% of the boxing community, as a guy who came JUST short of an all time great legacy