BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well, then it's hardly the internet's fault is it?

As for Ben Carey, he may get some stick on here, but the guy can write, and knows his stuff.

.

Thats your oppinion...(i have been watching them over the past 7 years since this thing begun).......my oppinion is his writing is complete rubbish, and for you to put his name in the same paragraph as Colin Hart is discussing...not to mention the fact that Harty was and still is after more than 30 years able to captivate people with his persona on T.V....when the likes of Carey are not even able to post a photo of themselves besides a crappie web write up because he looks that bad.

The problem with these self appointed/wannabee pop idol generation of internet boxing journos is there is no professional vetting or editing for their rubbish so they can write what they want....it's not like they have the pressure of getting it right before hundreds of thousands of news papers are printed.

P.S.Look for the alias posters to start on this thread.[/url]

Well, that's your opinion mate. You're entitled to it, but I think you will find that few here agree with you, I know that Hart says it like it is, and knows his onions, but as for him 'captivating' anyone, well, I think that is stretching it.

At the end of the day, newspapers carry sod all boxing content. If you wanted to follow boxing via the national newspapers, you would think that Ricky Hatton and Amir Khan were the only two fighters in the UK.

Boxing News of course cover the sport, but they are only giving one opinion, their format does not allow for the diversity of opinion that the proliferation of websites offers.

Of course, there are lots of poor, unmoderated garbage websites out there, or others masqueraring as news outlets who serve only to promote certain promoters fighters. There are also though websites such as Britishboxing.net, maxboxing, fightnews, that provide a growing number of people with quality, well researched, and responsible coverage of the sport, amongst others.

The internet is able to give a breadth and depth of coverage to the sport that print formats simply cannot match due to the constraints and costs involved. That is a fact.

The websites are already giving print media a run for it's money, and in time more of them will evolve into web based magazines with full time staff and growing user bases, much like maxboxing. There will always be the rogue websites which spout bollocks, but that's the nature of the unregulated internet.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: The websites are already giving print media a run for it's money, and in time more of them will evolve into web based magazines with full time staff and growing user bases, much like maxboxing. There will always be the rogue websites which spout bollocks, but that's the nature of the unregulated internet.

I totaly agree that the internet will take over the printed word...i had such a debate a while back on another site with a poster that claimed he owned a news paper....just because it is happening does not make it a good thing.

Perhaps if the likes of Boxing News put up a quality web mag back in like 2000 they could have set the standard instead of sticking their head in the sand.

The only problem i have with the pop idol generation/wannabe journos is the influence they may have on a newbie boxing fan, i know who the culprits are and know better than to read their rubbish.

If anyone was reading and taking in Bent Claireys "articals" last year he would have you believe Mark Hobson was going places because he was all gushy with Mark because "Mark talks to him and gives him interveiws"

Where as the likes of me who is just a neutral boxing fan predicted the demise of the Chris Aston stable, ala Hobson, Hare and Dale.

Where would boxing news have found the money for the staff for a website? They operate on a shoestring as it is, with only a handful of full time staff who also do the print layout themselves.

Boxing News is a small magazine which is owned by a much bigger parent company who would probably, if they had their way cease production of the magazine.

Also, it is a different style of journalism writing for the internet, where there is more scope for expansive pieces, interviews, mail bags etc.

I don't know what this pop-idol stuff you're going on about is, but there are a lot of internet journalists who don't fit into this category, and nobody is more egotistical than print journalists in any case.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't know what this pop-idol stuff you're going on about is, but there are a lot of internet journalists who don't fit into this category, and nobody is more egotistical than print journalists in any case.

Boxing News were in a perfect position to create a quality web site by uploading their mag onto the web and modifying it as they learnt...7 to 10 years ago they had the customer base and branding that would have followed them and made the site successful with their numbers...instead they chose to dismiss the internet.


Name the British internet journos that do not fit into the pop idol catagory?

Example;A pop idol is someone who sung in their bedroom with a hair brush last week and now thinks they are Marvin Gaye.

Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Name the British boxing journos that travel the World to report on fights from a live perspective?...and don't use the excuse they are not getting paid to travel across the World because if they don't have the means to a end then they shouldn't be in the game...why would we need these nuggets to give us their front page veiw on a fight they saw on the telly like the rest of us?

SIMPSONS wrote: Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Graham Houston.

SIMPSONS wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well, then it's hardly the internet's fault is it?

As for Ben Carey, he may get some stick on here, but the guy can write, and knows his stuff.

.

Thats your oppinion...(i have been watching them over the past 7 years since this thing begun).......my oppinion is his writing is complete rubbish, and for you to put his name in the same paragraph as Colin Hart is discussing...not to mention the fact that Harty was and still is after more than 30 years able to captivate people with his persona on T.V....when the likes of Carey are not even able to post a photo of themselves besides a crappie web write up because he looks that bad.

The problem with these self appointed/wannabee pop idol generation of internet boxing journos is there is no professional vetting or editing for their rubbish so they can write what they want....it's not like they have the pressure of getting it right before hundreds of thousands of news papers are printed.

P.S.Look for the alias posters to start on this thread.[/url]

Yawn, another boring rant from Simpsons. By the way, there is only 1 p in opinion. You might have been watching them for the past 7 years, but you still can't spell

There are some excellent new writers out there, and in my opinion BN has most of them.

Colin Hart is old school, and because he has been around the sport for so long some seem to read more into it than they really should...was he even that good all those years ago??...experience means nothing if you don`t learn from it

The internet, in one form or other will replace daily/weekly/monthly publications, and whilst at the moment almost all the internet boxing writers come under the mediocre heading, we will see the good print writers doing more for, and eventually crossing over full-time to web sites...thats when the `pop-idol` style wriers will disapear

The bigger boxing web sites may get alot of visits off people but how many people take the time to really read the artice?

Most I`d imagine will look to the result and click to another site....
thats what I do if I miss the fight....
then visit one or two forums and read the discussions to get a better view from both camps on their take of the fight...alot more accurate than just 1 persons view..who may know even less of the game than your wife

MightyWarrior wrote:

SIMPSONS wrote: Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Graham Houston.

Eric Armit - one of the best in the business

SIMPSONS wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't know what this pop-idol stuff you're going on about is, but there are a lot of internet journalists who don't fit into this category, and nobody is more egotistical than print journalists in any case.

Boxing News were in a perfect position to create a quality web site by uploading their mag onto the web and modifying it as they learnt...7 to 10 years ago they had the customer base and branding that would have followed them and made the site successful with their numbers...instead they chose to dismiss the internet.


Name the British internet journos that do not fit into the pop idol catagory?

Example;A pop idol is someone who sung in their bedroom with a hair brush last week and now thinks they are Marvin Gaye.

Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Name the British boxing journos that travel the World to report on fights from a live perspective?...and don't use the excuse they are not getting paid to travel across the World because if they don't have the means to a end then they shouldn't be in the game...why would we need these nuggets to give us their front page veiw on a fight they saw on the telly like the rest of us?

You're talking bollocks mate.

How is someone who is an internet journalist going to afford to fly around the world when the national print media don't even do it.

Print journalists only cover fights abroad when they are having their expenses picked up by the newspaper, which let's face it, isn't often. When was the last time a print journalist for one of the nationals was reporting from ringisde on a big title fight.

Most of the ringside reports from the states for boxing news, are filed by people who live there, unless Claude Abrams decides to go and cover a really big one. Most of the national newspapers don't even cover a fight unless there is British interest, so what point are you trying to make.

For your information, I've flown at my own expense to cover a world title fight in Las Vegas, which I wrote up for maxboxing.com. I have also had my work published in boxing news, though given the poor rate of pay for having your work published by trade publications, I've not bothered since.

There are any number of print journalists and boxing historians who are currently writing on the internet, Michael Katz, Thomas Hauser, Hank Kaplan, Jim Amato, amongst others.

Your argument simply doesn't hold water, as usual.....

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

SIMPSONS wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't know what this pop-idol stuff you're going on about is, but there are a lot of internet journalists who don't fit into this category, and nobody is more egotistical than print journalists in any case.

Boxing News were in a perfect position to create a quality web site by uploading their mag onto the web and modifying it as they learnt...7 to 10 years ago they had the customer base and branding that would have followed them and made the site successful with their numbers...instead they chose to dismiss the internet.


Name the British internet journos that do not fit into the pop idol catagory?

Example;A pop idol is someone who sung in their bedroom with a hair brush last week and now thinks they are Marvin Gaye.

Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Name the British boxing journos that travel the World to report on fights from a live perspective?...and don't use the excuse they are not getting paid to travel across the World because if they don't have the means to a end then they shouldn't be in the game...why would we need these nuggets to give us their front page veiw on a fight they saw on the telly like the rest of us?

You're talking bollocks mate.

How is someone who is an internet journalist going to afford to fly around the world when the national print media don't even do it.

Print journalists only cover fights abroad when they are having their expenses picked up by the newspaper, which let's face it, isn't often. When was the last time a print journalist for one of the nationals was reporting from ringisde on a big title fight.

Most of the ringside reports from the states for boxing news, are filed by people who live there, unless Claude Abrams decides to go and cover a really big one. Most of the national newspapers don't even cover a fight unless there is British interest, so what point are you trying to make.

For your information, I've flown at my own expense to cover a world title fight in Las Vegas, which I wrote up for maxboxing.com. I have also had my work published in boxing news, though given the poor rate of pay for having your work published by trade publications, I've not bothered since.

There are any number of print journalists and boxing historians who are currently writing on the internet, Michael Katz, Thomas Hauser, Hank Kaplan, Jim Amato, amongst others.

Your argument simply doesn't hold water, as usual.....

Thought i was speaking to someone who had "another agenda"..and yet again we have someone with pompus attitude who think he's the oracle of Boxing.

BTW. Who is qualified to take over from those guys you mentioned when they are gone?

SIMPSONS wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

SIMPSONS wrote: Boxing News were in a perfect position to create a quality web site by uploading their mag onto the web and modifying it as they learnt...7 to 10 years ago they had the customer base and branding that would have followed them and made the site successful with their numbers...instead they chose to dismiss the internet.


Name the British internet journos that do not fit into the pop idol catagory?

Example;A pop idol is someone who sung in their bedroom with a hair brush last week and now thinks they are Marvin Gaye.

Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Name the British boxing journos that travel the World to report on fights from a live perspective?...and don't use the excuse they are not getting paid to travel across the World because if they don't have the means to a end then they shouldn't be in the game...why would we need these nuggets to give us their front page veiw on a fight they saw on the telly like the rest of us?

You're talking bollocks mate.

How is someone who is an internet journalist going to afford to fly around the world when the national print media don't even do it.

Print journalists only cover fights abroad when they are having their expenses picked up by the newspaper, which let's face it, isn't often. When was the last time a print journalist for one of the nationals was reporting from ringisde on a big title fight.

Most of the ringside reports from the states for boxing news, are filed by people who live there, unless Claude Abrams decides to go and cover a really big one. Most of the national newspapers don't even cover a fight unless there is British interest, so what point are you trying to make.

For your information, I've flown at my own expense to cover a world title fight in Las Vegas, which I wrote up for maxboxing.com. I have also had my work published in boxing news, though given the poor rate of pay for having your work published by trade publications, I've not bothered since.

There are any number of print journalists and boxing historians who are currently writing on the internet, Michael Katz, Thomas Hauser, Hank Kaplan, Jim Amato, amongst others.

Your argument simply doesn't hold water, as usual.....

Thought i was speaking to someone who had "another agenda"..and yet again we have someone with pompus attitude who think he's the oracle of Boxing.

BTW.I was talking about British Journo's.

Ever thought of having a go yourself, Simpsons?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

SIMPSONS wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't know what this pop-idol stuff you're going on about is, but there are a lot of internet journalists who don't fit into this category, and nobody is more egotistical than print journalists in any case.

Boxing News were in a perfect position to create a quality web site by uploading their mag onto the web and modifying it as they learnt...7 to 10 years ago they had the customer base and branding that would have followed them and made the site successful with their numbers...instead they chose to dismiss the internet.


Name the British internet journos that do not fit into the pop idol catagory?

Example;A pop idol is someone who sung in their bedroom with a hair brush last week and now thinks they are Marvin Gaye.

Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Name the British boxing journos that travel the World to report on fights from a live perspective?...and don't use the excuse they are not getting paid to travel across the World because if they don't have the means to a end then they shouldn't be in the game...why would we need these nuggets to give us their front page veiw on a fight they saw on the telly like the rest of us?

You're talking bollocks mate.

How is someone who is an internet journalist going to afford to fly around the world when the national print media don't even do it.

Print journalists only cover fights abroad when they are having their expenses picked up by the newspaper, which let's face it, isn't often. When was the last time a print journalist for one of the nationals was reporting from ringisde on a big title fight.

Most of the ringside reports from the states for boxing news, are filed by people who live there, unless Claude Abrams decides to go and cover a really big one. Most of the national newspapers don't even cover a fight unless there is British interest, so what point are you trying to make.

For your information, I've flown at my own expense to cover a world title fight in Las Vegas, which I wrote up for maxboxing.com. I have also had my work published in boxing news, though given the poor rate of pay for having your work published by trade publications, I've not bothered since.

There are any number of print journalists and boxing historians who are currently writing on the internet, Michael Katz, Thomas Hauser, Hank Kaplan, Jim Amato, amongst others.

Your argument simply doesn't hold water, as usual.....

Of course, Simpsons is talking bollocks. He comes on a forum to slag off journalism, but he can't even spell himself. Look at the way he spells the word "view" veiw. It's hilarious

glittermonkey wrote:Ever thought of having a go yourself, Simpsons?

Yes i have, but i don't have the time and would not disrespect the art by being a part timer, i make a good living from a boxing related field anyway.

I actually think that if a British guy is serious about being a boxing journo they could do no better than sitting down and having a drink with the likes of Colin Hart...i would go as far to say that he should be inducted into The International Boxing Hall Of Fame! as he's lived the game for decades.

Anyway i will be posting less and reading more from now on as i think it's time to start putting in some extra work on the physique for what they are predicting as the hottest summer coming up.

the last 2 lines of your post simpsons are probably the best thing you have ever come out with. you are 100% true in what you say.

too many forums are promotional outlets and moderated by ill informed nobodies with a gestapo type mentality who feel the need to swing their mighty power sword at those who do not comply and therefore eradicate them.

saddam hussein used to do that, look what happened to him.

am i having a dig a ugly spudly, of course i am, but there are others !!

would i want ugly spudly to face the gallows.........the answer is yes, but only as part of the hatton undercard on PPV. with mick hennessy pulling the trapdoor.

SIMPSONS wrote:

glittermonkey wrote:Ever thought of having a go yourself, Simpsons?

Yes i have, but i don't have the time and would not disrespect the art by being a part timer, i make a good living from a boxing related field anyway.

I actually think that if a British guy is serious about being a boxing journo they could do no better than sitting down and having a drink with the likes of Colin Hart...i would go as far to say that he should be inducted into The International Boxing Hall Of Fame! as he's lived the game for decades.

Anyway i will be posting less and reading more from now on as i think it's time to start putting in some extra work on the physique for what they are predicting as the hottest summer coming up.

i take it that you live in brighton ...

Who's going to travel to a different country if the expenses don't even fully cover the plane ticket? No one.

Boxing News if filled with foreign reports that say "apparently Maskaev was in control the whole fight", "JC Gomez-McCall was allegedly a classic" and the like. In other words they report fights they HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN, if it isn't Uk or USA set. Also, a good deal of their writers are from thesweetscience.com - a good site that was known for its abrasive pro USA attitude not too long ago. & some of their Euro news has already been posted on BS and ESB, by Per Ake Persson.

A few weeks ago they even called Katushige Kawashima by the name of Masamori Tokyama - these are two different people who fought each other 3x!

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well, then it's hardly the internet's fault is it?

The internet is the future of sports journalism, especially boxing, and plenty of internet journalists know their stuff, and have put in the thousands of hours of research to get to that point. Just because someone hasn't had the grounding of journalistic training, doesn't mean they cannot write. As for not getting published in boxing news, there are several internet Journalists, including a couple on here, who have been published in either boxing news or boxing monthly, or both, so your argument doesn't really hold water. As for Ben Carey, he may get some stick on here, but the guy can write, and knows his stuff.

As for Colin Hart, whilst he knows boxing in the sense that he knows the difference between shite and talent, his knowledge of the current global scene isn't great. He didn't know who Ben Tackie was when Hatton was fighting him, despite the fact that Tackie was a former world title challenger. That I think is because like many people who have been around the sport for a long time, he perceives the modern era to be beneath him in terms of researching the current scene.

I dont research the current scene much these days James, and I could only name a handful of world champions. My interest in Bxing seems at an all time low.

I like Valero, Guzman, Mayweather, Paqcuaio, Duddy internationally and Haye and small on the British scene.

Apart from that I think the current scene is awfully lacking in depth.

Or maybe a business, wife, to kids and mortgage etc mean I just dont have the time.

Without Boxrec, I reckon I would have stopped following the sport 2 or 3 years ago. and remember I dont follow ANY other sport, not football, rugby cricket tennis, NONE.

simpsons you cracked me up with that claim about your boxing related earner.
quite a few of us on here have probably made a penny through boxing related methods and i reckon weve lost a bob or two through similar channels. its nothing to brag about. i'm steeped in the history of boxing journalism and am widely read in the great pen men of the last 150 years.
but that doesnt stop me from reading and enjoying the internet fellas making their way. some very good, some very poor, just as it always was. i even had a bit published in BN myself years ago.

i shouldnt pull his leg about the spelling too much, i find as i get older my spelling, which was once excellent, now needs much closer scrutiny.

Simpsons - I don't fit the pop idol category. I'm also a qualified journo rather than an 'amateur' (and I don't mean this term pejoratively) - though I don't make my living from writing.

Your point about sitting down with Colin Hart and the like is spot on - they've forgotten more about boxing than I know (though not about the current scene but who would expect them to? We all get older...) and we are all always learning unless we are too dumb to realise it.

Your point about the unregulated nature of the internet is also true. Some people don't understand why I get angry when I see the internet pop idols to whom you refer at ringside acting unprofessionally or read another inaccurate and badly written crock of shit on the web. It reflects badly on all those who are trying to elevate the status of net-based writing.

You will find that almost all pieces on BBN are edited for both accuracy (linguistic mainly) and also to conform with libel laws.

The thing about print as opposed to web is that if a print publication was of a very low standard and/or didn't appeal to the public, it would fold quickly. That isn't the case with the web.

You shouldn't tar everybody with the same brush. There are some excellent web-based journalists (amateur and otherwise) out there. But it's all about opinions. I'm with KO Artist - if it wasn't for the web, boxing would have an even smaller fan base than it does now.

SIMPSONS wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

SIMPSONS wrote: Boxing News were in a perfect position to create a quality web site by uploading their mag onto the web and modifying it as they learnt...7 to 10 years ago they had the customer base and branding that would have followed them and made the site successful with their numbers...instead they chose to dismiss the internet.


Name the British internet journos that do not fit into the pop idol catagory?

Example;A pop idol is someone who sung in their bedroom with a hair brush last week and now thinks they are Marvin Gaye.

Name the British internet journos that you heard of in boxing before boxing forums began?

Name the British boxing journos that travel the World to report on fights from a live perspective?...and don't use the excuse they are not getting paid to travel across the World because if they don't have the means to a end then they shouldn't be in the game...why would we need these nuggets to give us their front page veiw on a fight they saw on the telly like the rest of us?

You're talking bollocks mate.

How is someone who is an internet journalist going to afford to fly around the world when the national print media don't even do it.

Print journalists only cover fights abroad when they are having their expenses picked up by the newspaper, which let's face it, isn't often. When was the last time a print journalist for one of the nationals was reporting from ringisde on a big title fight.

Most of the ringside reports from the states for boxing news, are filed by people who live there, unless Claude Abrams decides to go and cover a really big one. Most of the national newspapers don't even cover a fight unless there is British interest, so what point are you trying to make.

For your information, I've flown at my own expense to cover a world title fight in Las Vegas, which I wrote up for maxboxing.com. I have also had my work published in boxing news, though given the poor rate of pay for having your work published by trade publications, I've not bothered since.

There are any number of print journalists and boxing historians who are currently writing on the internet, Michael Katz, Thomas Hauser, Hank Kaplan, Jim Amato, amongst others.

Your argument simply doesn't hold water, as usual.....

Thought i was speaking to someone who had "another agenda"..and yet again we have someone with pompus attitude who think he's the oracle of Boxing.

BTW. Who is qualified to take over from those guys you mentioned when they are gone?

What is pompous about that statement. I'm merely pointing out facts to you.
There are quite a lot of print journalists/boxing writers who feature on the net.
I have personally gone out of my way to cover a fight abroad at my own expense.
I have had my work published in mainstream print.

These three things are facts, there's nothing pompous about it.

I wouldn't have Jim Amato in the must have list.

Anyway, as we know, the Internet is perfect as a medium that can deal will daily updates. We can see fight reports the evening of/the morning after a big fight. Forums are also a great exchange of information.

This is the only way to stay current. And staying current is important -I don't give a fvck about Harty's or Hauser's recollections of Ali, I've heard it all before anyway.

Why are magazines starting to write about fighters like Kessler, Valero, and the like, who have had big reputations on the net?

A lot of sites have quality writers. Some don't.

I'm sceptical as to whether deciated boxing websites are indeed "the future of the sport". I think we've been consistently uttering this for 3 years now and I see next to no progress being made.

The only way the internet is going to replace print publications is by being able to televise fights that people want to see, either live or on delay with no television.

BBN had a brave dabble into this, allbeit on a smaller level, but you lot who trumpet them failed to back what was a very worthy initiative. They were screening Jon Thaxton and Scott Dann's British title defence but only a handful of people parted with their cash to watch the shows in full.

If Kevin Taylor and the likes make little money from their sites how are they supposed to improve not only the quality of their output and improve their content ie by attracting better writers and being able to pay them?

How many of you anaroks would be prepared to pay for boxing content, either televised footage or a news service, over the internet? Only a fraction. The majority of you can't even be arsed to buy DVDs, instead preferring to download fights from illegal sites.

Everyone likes to have a pop at the newspapers but arguably their boxing coverage has increased since Boxing returned to ITV. Amir Khan, our domestic heavyweights, Ricky Hatton, Junior Witter, Clinton Woods, Carl Froch, David Haye, Alex Arthur and Scott Harrison have all received a reasonable share of column inches - of course, some more than others. And many casual fans will still access boxing content through teletext and boxing pages on the BBC, ITV and SKY websites.

If Boxing News went online tomorrow they'd fold by Summer. Internet boxing "fans", and I say that conservatively because seldom do the majority actually part with their cash to go and attend shows, expect everything for FREE.

Free reports, Free interviews, Free fights. And whilever this mindset is allowed to manifest we'll still be talking about Boxing's "future" on the internet in 10 years time.

Ben Carey wrote: How many of you anaroks would be prepared to pay for boxing content, either televised footage or a news service, over the internet? Only a fraction. The majority of you can't even be arsed to buy DVDs, instead preferring to download fights from illegal sites.

.

Trying the Steve Bunce approach are we fat boy?..go suck a fat 1...we were talking about the pop idol generation of wannabee journo's and self appointed to$$ers..and you fat boy have been the cause of the lack of quality and bullsh!t on British Boxing sites.