Roberto Duran vs Ray Leonard II, no Mas.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 22 Aug 2005, 17:18

C'mon guys ! Duran had been fighting as a welterweight for about 2 years when he fought Leonard so it wasen't like he had to come up in weight. Then when he fought as a JMW and a MW, plain and simple it was because he liked to eat and wasen't going to get back down to 140 or lower anymore. It's a natural progression with almost every fighter who stays in the game for 10 years.

In regards to the Leonard-Lalonde fight, the problem there was not that Lalonde was mediocre. Lalonde was in fact a very hard puncher, but the fight was at 168, which meant he had to come down from his best weight. What can I say ? Lalonde agreed because it was his biggest payday ever.

As for Hagler losing because it was his last fight and he had been down to fighting only once a year for the last 3. Gimme a break ! Leonard should have had more rust on him than the Tin Man in the Wizard Oz considering he had 1 fight in the last 5 years. Do I hear anyone saying that Leonard's victory was one of the greatest achievements in boxing history though ?

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 22 Aug 2005, 17:20

In my mind Hagler never lost to Leonard.. he was robbed. And Duran clearly beat Leonard in their first match.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 23 Aug 2005, 08:53

I have to say that Leonard on his day was absolutely flawless in the ring. As close to unbeatable at Welter as you could ever get. That just goes to show what a brilliant display Roberto put up to beat him in the 1st fight. I personally think the first fight was a lot closer than most think. I'd give it to Duran by maybe 9-6 or even 8-7. No matter what people say, trying to make excuses that Ray fought the wrong fight, I give the credit to Duran for forcing Ray to fight the wrong fight. I will always be a blemish on Leonard's legacy that he lost to a blown up Lightweight. On the second fight which I have seen zero footage, I can't really say much. I have heard that the fight was pretty close, and that Ray wasn't dominating as a lot were saying. I think Duran just wasn't bothered that night and was in no humor to fight.....Still, credit to Ray for the victory. Can someone tell me why this fight has never really been shown. It's one of the most infamous fights in history, with the least TV footage. I've never even seen clips of it. And I've saw tons of boxing over the yrs.....

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Aug 2005, 09:02

walshb wrote:I have to say that Leonard on his day was absolutely flawless in the ring. As close to unbeatable at Welter as you could ever get. That just goes to show what a brilliant display Roberto put up to beat him in the 1st fight.

This pretty much sums up the way I see Duran's achievement.

Like I said before, in the 2nd fight Leonard wins no matter what style they fight. Duran wasn't in shape and Leonard was in the best shape of his career.

jyuza · Post by **jyuza** » 26 Aug 2005, 08:59

and "no mas" ?
what does it mean ?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 26 Aug 2005, 11:57

If Sugar Ray had of said 'No Mas' & walked away in the 1st fight, because he could not subdue Duran, would Duran's apologists be so forgiving of Sugar Ray?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 26 Aug 2005, 14:13

jyuza wrote:and "no mas" ?
what does it mean ?

No more.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 26 Aug 2005, 14:43

My thoughts on this fight from another thread.

As for the first Duran - Leonard fight. I to was too young to remember it the first time around but of course have it on tape. Duran that night was as much a force of nature than a fighter that night. People say Leonard chose the wrong tactics that night which in part may be true but I think it was more of a case of Duran forcing Leonard to fight his fight.

I think it was in the second round Duran badly hurt Leonard with a left hook(?). If Leonard had been able to dance around that night surely that would have been his wake-up call? Duran was in Leonards face all night, beating him to the jab, slipping Leonards shots like no other fighter ever did and punishing Leonard to the body and head.

The infamous 'no mas' rematch was lost for Duran before the fight even began due to Durans crazy methods of making the weight. From what I have heard Duran was something like 200lbs when he went into training camp for the rematch due to heavy partying. He didn't have enough time to get down to 147lbs by just training hard.

For about two days before the weigh-in he ate and drank almost nothing apart from laxatives to make the weight. After the weigh-in the first thing he did was eat about TWO large steak and potatoe meals straight after each other resting only to drink pints of fruit juice. He then finished that off with eating some more fruit.

By the time fight time came the mixture of laxatives and binge eating had given the great Duran the mpther of all stomach aches. He tried his best early on but the stomach cramps were too much to content with along with Leonards shots to body and head. I believe he quit that night because I believe he felt another hard shot to the body and he would not have been responsible for the behavour of his bowels.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 28 Aug 2005, 15:46

Wow. Don't quite know what to think of that.
Anyway, Duran quit in one of the biggest fights of his career, and that's his own fault.
As for the original thread, what was the bigger achievement? Well it was a big achievement for Duran to win the welterweight title, but it isn't as impressive Leonard's win over Hagler. As mentioned before Duran was already fighting other welterweights before he fought Leonard. Before this fight, the "experts" were very evenly divided about this fight.

As for the Leonard-Hagler fight, Leonard was coming off a very long layoff ( first fight in 2 years and only 1 in the last 5 years) and was fighting as a middleweight for the first time. Before the Leonard-Hagler fight, virtually every "expert" was picking Hagler to destroy Leonard. The talk about Hagler supposedly being washed up wasn't an issue before the fight.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 01 Sep 2005, 12:11

[quote="Ambling Alp"]Wow. Don't quite know what to think of that.
for Duran to win the welterweight title, but it isn't as impressive Leonard's win over Hagler. As mentioned before Duran was already fighting other welterweights before he fought Leonard. Before this fight, the "experts" were very evenly divided about this fight.

Alp, I don't see how Leonard's win over a sluggish Hagler was better than the Lightweigt Duran coming to face a peak Leonard at Leonard's best weight. Ray was in prime condition for that fight and Roberto jumped two weights. He was also 29, not old I know, But Ray had the youth, height, reach, speed and power advantage over Duran and Duran still mastered a plan to win......Hagler by comparison was not faster than Ray, no reach or height advantage and was on the slide big time. Ray basically hit and ran thru the whole fight. I'm a huge Leonard fan, but I really thought Marvin deserved to keep his title that day. Leonard looked as if he just wanted to survive and go the distance. He certainly didn't grab the title, he sort of stole it, if you know what I mean