BoxRec

Collins2000 wrote:

granberry wrote:

Sir Psycho wrote:I detest Ali but I have nothing on this granberry guy You woud think Ali was Hitler.

Ali was a fighter who was beaten up by Doug Jones and Henry Cooper but then was supposedly able to beat Sonny Liston.

After his fake one punch knockout over Liston, in his very next fight
Ali showed he had no punching power at all against a sore-backed Patterson.

Ali's magic Liston "punch" was also completely absent as he struggled for 39 rounds with Ken Norton, 30 rounds with Leon Spinks, and tried as hard as he could to KO Terrell with his circular slaps without ever scoring a knockdown.

We are instructed to thrill to Ali's win over Cleveland Williams, who was missing one kidney, ten feet of his small intestine, and had a shriveled left leg from the nerve damage from the bullet he was shot with a year and a half before he "fought" Ali.

Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and beat him thoroughly, Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons

but the news media, who collectively never had a single fight out on the playground at school, instruct us that their Ali was the greatest of all time (whatever that means).

Hilarious.

I suggest you try and obtain copies of those fights as you obviously haven't seen any of them.

See if you can get someone who actually knows something about boxing to watch them with you and explain such things as what a jab is, how long a round is, which fighter is which etc.

Clown.

Yes,

Ali was a clown.

Red Medicine wrote:Whatever, I'd pick Wlad to beat a prime Ali anytime. Ali doesn't have the knockout power that it takes to scare off Wlad, who would jump all over him, probably stopping him late.

Intelligent man

Red Medicine wrote:Whatever, I'd pick Wlad to beat a prime Ali anytime. Ali doesn't have the knockout power that it takes to scare off Wlad, who would jump all over him, probably stopping him late.

I'd rate Ross Puritty over Ali as well. Unbale to hurt Ross the Boss, Ali would eventually succumb to Puritty's constant pressure. Late round TKO I'd say.

wouter wrote:

Red Medicine wrote:Whatever, I'd pick Wlad to beat a prime Ali anytime. Ali doesn't have the knockout power that it takes to scare off Wlad, who would jump all over him, probably stopping him late.

I'd rate Ross Puritty over Ali as well. Unbale to hurt Ross the Boss, Ali would eventually succumb to Puritty's constant pressure. Late round TKO I'd say.

Brewster and Sanders would squash a prime Ali as well. Sanders with his blazing hand speed and explosive power, and Brewster with his great stamina and heart.

Well while we are taking this enjoyable stroll through the looking glass, let's not forget John Carlo who beat Leon Spinks in a round or two and J.D. Whatshisface who took John Carlo out in one round. Either of these proven ferocious predators would easily disassemble Wlad or Ali within a few rounds.

Sadly the big sharks such as these two are never trotted out to feast on the big names. It's all conspiracy and politics and money. The reall champions just never get the opportunities.

I'm convinced Stacy Goodson would be HW champion if people would just get out his way and let the man fight.

The fact that this thread has managed to lure Granberry out of his straitjacket says all you need to know about Ali being overrated... this is a tired subject posed by sad and tired individuals who are still struggling to get over the fact that Ali made them eat their words well over 30 years ago... you'll still find some people hanging round street corners who believe that the world is flat, the moon is made of cheese and G.W Bush is a man of intelligence and peace and fighting for a better world for the rest of us... most of these people are probably related in some fashion to Granberry... it aint pretty!...

BoxBuzz wrote:Well while we are taking this enjoyable stroll through the looking glass, let's not forget John Carlo who beat Leon Spinks in a round or two and J.D. Whatshisface who took John Carlo out in one round. Either of these proven ferocious predators would easily disassemble Wlad or Ali within a few rounds.

Sadly the big sharks such as these two are never trotted out to feast on the big names. It's all conspiracy and politics and money. The reall champions just never get the opportunities.

I'm convinced Stacy Goodson would be HW champion if people would just get out his way and let the man fight.

You conveniently omit the obvious:

Ali struggled with novice Leon Spinks in two fights for total of THIRTY rounds.

In his VERY NEXT FIGHT after fighting thirty rounds with the news media's "greatest of all time,"

Spinks was unable to last for three minutes of the first round against Gerrie Coetzee.

Coetzee knocked out Spinks in the first round.

Yet nobody in the news media called Coetzee "the greatest" fighter of all time" for doing that.

But the same news media called their Ali "the greatest of all time" for his two pathetic struggles with the novice Spinks.

silkov wrote:The fact that this thread has managed to lure Granberry out of his straitjacket says all you need to know about Ali being overrated... this is a tired subject posed by sad and tired individuals who are still struggling to get over the fact that Ali made them eat their words well over 30 years ago... you'll still find some people hanging round street corners who believe that the world is flat, the moon is made of cheese and G.W Bush is a man of intelligence and peace and fighting for a better world for the rest of us... most of these people are probably related in some fashion to Granberry... it aint pretty!...

The fact that this thread has managed to lure Silkov out of his straitjacket says all you need to know about those who regurgitate the media sales pitch for Ali... this is a tired subject posed by sad and tired individuals who are still struggling to get over the fact that Ali was far from being the greatest of all time... you'll still find some people hanging round street corners who believe that the world is flat, the moon is made of cheese and Ahmadinejad is a man of intelligence and peace and fighting for a better world for the rest of us... most of these people are probably related in some fashion to Silkov... it aint pretty!

granberry wrote:But the same news media called their Ali "the greatest of all time" for his two pathetic struggles with the novice Spinks.

Is that why he’s called “the greatest of all time”? I always wondered. And here I always thought it might have had something to do with a few of his other fights, so thanks for setting that straight.

The Great John L wrote:

granberry wrote:But the same news media called their Ali "the greatest of all time" for his two pathetic struggles with the novice Spinks.

Is that why he’s called “the greatest of all time”? I always wondered. And here I always thought it might have had something to do with a few of his other fights, so thanks for setting that straight.

The salesmen for the Ali industry always point out that he "won the title" for a third time against novice Spinks.

They always omit that Spinks was a novice,

that novice Spinks beat Ali (LOL),

and that as soon as he finished his 30 rounds against the "great" Ali,

Spinks couldn't stay in the ring for a full three minutes against Gerrie Coetzee.

granberry wrote:

silkov wrote:The fact that this thread has managed to lure Granberry out of his straitjacket says all you need to know about Ali being overrated... this is a tired subject posed by sad and tired individuals who are still struggling to get over the fact that Ali made them eat their words well over 30 years ago... you'll still find some people hanging round street corners who believe that the world is flat, the moon is made of cheese and G.W Bush is a man of intelligence and peace and fighting for a better world for the rest of us... most of these people are probably related in some fashion to Granberry... it aint pretty!...

The fact that this thread has managed to lure Silkov out of his straitjacket says all you need to know about those who regurgitate the media sales pitch for Ali... this is a tired subject posed by sad and tired individuals who are still struggling to get over the fact that Ali was far from being the greatest of all time... you'll still find some people hanging round street corners who believe that the world is flat, the moon is made of cheese and Ahmadinejad is a man of intelligence and peace and fighting for a better world for the rest of us... most of these people are probably related in some fashion to Silkov... it aint pretty!

Youre either retarded or nuts, your knowledge of boxing can be put on the back of an ant... the fact that you need to use the Spinks fights to criticise Ali says it all, yeah, Ali was really at his peak vs Spinks wasnt he!!... hahahaha!!...

silkov wrote:
Youre either retarded or nuts, your knowledge of boxing can be put on the back of an ant... the fact that you need to use the Spinks fights to criticise Ali says it all, yeah, Ali was really at his peak vs Spinks wasnt he!!... hahahaha!!...

Ahmadinejad admirer Silkov speaks.

The 'great' Joe Louis whilst in his prime was badly staggered and dropped by the 200lbs fringe contender Tony Galento whom by this point was past his best and was spending more time smoking and drinking whisky than training.

Great fighters do NOT get nearly KO'd in there prime by this level of fighter.

Yet the WW2 media poster boy Joe Louis is called a great Heavyweight, pathetic.

KOJOE90 wrote:The 'great' Joe Louis whilst in his prime was badly staggered and dropped by the 200lbs fringe contender Tony Galento whom by this point was past his best and was spending more time smoking and drinking whisky than training.

Great fighters do NOT get nearly KO'd in there prime by this level of fighter.

Yet the WW2 media poster boy Joe Louis is called a great Heavyweight, pathetic.

OK it's time for the truth to be known. The facts are as follows....if you turn the ratings UPSIDE DOWN and read them off you will then find the "hidden" truth. It has been true since the days of Sullivan that the best fighters will be found at the "bottom" of the ratings and the stinkers at the top. This Hoax has been imposed for far too long on the public in general and finally finally finally our hero Granberry has released to the general citizenry the facts of the matter.

May I be the first to offer my sincere thanks. granberry.....speaking the inconvenient truth to us all. Let's be grateful.

KOJOE90 wrote:The 'great' Joe Louis whilst in his prime was badly staggered and dropped by the 200lbs fringe contender Tony Galento whom by this point was past his best and was spending more time smoking and drinking whisky than training.

Great fighters do NOT get nearly KO'd in there prime by this level of fighter.

Yet the WW2 media poster boy Joe Louis is called a great Heavyweight, pathetic.

And you are an "editor" at boxrec?

Pathetic.

What heavyweight fighter had a better career than Ali? I think Ali is overrated as well and many of his so called wins were gifts, but most were when he was past it, exxcept the Doug Jones robbery.


Who had a more successful career? Joe Louis? He fought more hobos than anyone in history.

granberry wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote:The 'great' Joe Louis whilst in his prime was badly staggered and dropped by the 200lbs fringe contender Tony Galento whom by this point was past his best and was spending more time smoking and drinking whisky than training.

Great fighters do NOT get nearly KO'd in there prime by this level of fighter.

Yet the WW2 media poster boy Joe Louis is called a great Heavyweight, pathetic.

And you are an "editor" at boxrec?

Pathetic.

Have you ever heard of sarcasm?

Keep the insults to yourself please, I am many years past school yard games.

KOJOE90 wrote:

granberry wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote:The 'great' Joe Louis whilst in his prime was badly staggered and dropped by the 200lbs fringe contender Tony Galento whom by this point was past his best and was spending more time smoking and drinking whisky than training.

Great fighters do NOT get nearly KO'd in there prime by this level of fighter.

Yet the WW2 media poster boy Joe Louis is called a great Heavyweight, pathetic.

And you are an "editor" at boxrec?

Pathetic.

Have you ever heard of sarcasm?

Keep the insults to yourself please, I am many years past school yard games.

You could have fooled me.

granberry wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote:

granberry wrote: And you are an "editor" at boxrec?

Pathetic.

Have you ever heard of sarcasm?

Keep the insults to yourself please, I am many years past school yard games.

You could have fooled me.

I happen to think Joe Louis was almost the complete fighting machine (helped with Chappy programming him). My point was you can punch holes in any career, even the great Joe Louis'.

granberry your opinion is rightfully yours.....we all have the inalienable right given to us by our founder and saint, John Shep, to speak in freedom (within civilized limits) about any and all fighters throughout history.

And I can say with no hesitation at all, that of all the many many many opinions I have read on this subject, yours is without a shadow of a doubt, one of them.

There is nobody around today that I can see really giving Ali the trouble that Norton, Foreman, Shavers and Frazier gave him. The only guy, power wise, who could would be Samuel Peter, but I think of him as being a poor man's Earnie Shavers, though he is getting a lil better, but hasnt yet blown away blown up MW in Toney.

Klitschko's got skills for a big man, and power, but if Foreman couldn't stop Ali I honestly don't see either Klitschko doing it, plus they have stamina issues when taken the limit.

And Valuev...bleh...I remember when Ali was to 'fight' Wilt Chamberlain and everybody was talking up Chamberlain's 90" reach, and to Ali's quick retort: 'Reach dont mean nothin, Terrell had a reach too and I whooped him'.

Briggs? He reminds me of one of Ali's opponents, Mac Foster. Hits hard, and thats about it. Confidence issues, and couldn't take being in tough situations.

Like I said...there ain't nobody in the current HW crop I could see beating Ali. But then again, I think any of the top all-time HW's could have beaten one another at one time or another. If Frazier could beat Ali one time out of three, I could see Marciano winning that same amount. I could see Jefferies winning at least 100 out of 1,000 fights with Ali, and etc.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:There is nobody around today that I can see really giving Ali the trouble that Norton, Foreman, Shavers and Frazier gave him. The only guy, power wise, who could would be Samuel Peter, but I think of him as being a poor man's Earnie Shavers, though he is getting a lil better, but hasnt yet blown away blown up MW in Toney.

Klitschko's got skills for a big man, and power, but if Foreman couldn't stop Ali I honestly don't see either Klitschko doing it, plus they have stamina issues when taken the limit.

And Valuev...bleh...I remember when Ali was to 'fight' Wilt Chamberlain and everybody was talking up Chamberlain's 90" reach, and to Ali's quick retort: 'Reach dont mean nothin, Terrell had a reach too and I whooped him'.

Briggs? He reminds me of one of Ali's opponents, Mac Foster. Hits hard, and thats about it. Confidence issues, and couldn't take being in tough situations.

Like I said...there ain't nobody in the current HW crop I could see beating Ali. But then again, I think any of the top all-time HW's could have beaten one another at one time or another. If Frazier could beat Ali one time out of three, I could see Marciano winning that same amount. I could see Jefferies winning at least 100 out of 1,000 fights with Ali, and etc.

I see (overweight lightheavyweight who lost to Harold Johnson) Doug Jones beating Ali 1 fight out of 1.

and I see Jimmy Young beating Ali 1 fight out of 1.

And Ali never gave either a rematch.

I see 7-fight novice Leon Spinks beating Ali one fight out of two.

And I see glass chinned Ken Norton beating Ali 3 fights out of 3.

And that is in the REAL WORLD.

Of course members of the Ali industry don't like it when you mention what he did in the REAL WORLD.

They like to stick to their fairy tales.

granberry wrote:

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:There is nobody around today that I can see really giving Ali the trouble that Norton, Foreman, Shavers and Frazier gave him. The only guy, power wise, who could would be Samuel Peter, but I think of him as being a poor man's Earnie Shavers, though he is getting a lil better, but hasnt yet blown away blown up MW in Toney.

Klitschko's got skills for a big man, and power, but if Foreman couldn't stop Ali I honestly don't see either Klitschko doing it, plus they have stamina issues when taken the limit.

And Valuev...bleh...I remember when Ali was to 'fight' Wilt Chamberlain and everybody was talking up Chamberlain's 90" reach, and to Ali's quick retort: 'Reach dont mean nothin, Terrell had a reach too and I whooped him'.

Briggs? He reminds me of one of Ali's opponents, Mac Foster. Hits hard, and thats about it. Confidence issues, and couldn't take being in tough situations.

Like I said...there ain't nobody in the current HW crop I could see beating Ali. But then again, I think any of the top all-time HW's could have beaten one another at one time or another. If Frazier could beat Ali one time out of three, I could see Marciano winning that same amount. I could see Jefferies winning at least 100 out of 1,000 fights with Ali, and etc.

I see (overweight lightheavyweight who lost to Harold Johnson) Doug Jones beating Ali 1 fight out of 1.

and I see Jimmy Young beating Ali 1 fight out of 1.

And Ali never gave either a rematch.

I see 7-fight novice Leon Spinks beating Ali one fight out of two.

And I see glass chinned Ken Norton beating Ali 3 fights out of 3.

And that is in the REAL WORLD.

Of course members of the Ali industry don't like it when you mention what he did in the REAL WORLD.

They like to stick to their fairy tales.

I thought your were on to something there for sure....then I opened up the record books to find that Ali had actually WON both of those fights....yep the judges who were actually there saw things different than you. I'm at a loss.......perhaps they did not consult with you on these matters.

Anyway those fights when witnessed today still get different opinions but most agree they were close....though the majority do NOT give Jones the nod....I'd say it's a close on the Young fight....but Ali got the nod on that one. Course as you know Young was a bum too....bout all he could manage was a clear UD over Foreman. So your credibility remains stable.

KOJOE90 wrote:

granberry wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote: Have you ever heard of sarcasm?

Keep the insults to yourself please, I am many years past school yard games.

You could have fooled me.

I happen to think Joe Louis was almost the complete fighting machine (helped with Chappy programming him). My point was you can punch holes in any career, even the great Joe Louis'.

Well actually its worth wondering whether the likes of Braddock and Galento would have floored Ali... what would a puncher like Liston, Frazier, Shavers or Foreman have done to Louis???.... mind you I wouldnt waste my time attempting a civil/sane debate with Granny... he's obviously not equipped for it...

BoxBuzz wrote:

I thought your were on to something there for sure....then I opened up the record books to find that Ali had actually WON both of those fights....yep the judges who were actually there saw things different than you. I'm at a loss.......perhaps they did not consult with you on these matters.

Buzz,

You nailed yourself there.

They 'consulted' with DON KING in the fight where Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons.

They consulted with Madison Square Garden management in the Jones fight.

Madison Square Garden had no use for an overweight lightheavyweight like Jones, even if he was a superior fighter to Ali.

Ali never gave either fighter a rematch.

Ali wouldn't give Young a rematch even after Young beat Foreman.

Instead he fought novice Leon Spinks---and lost.