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Posted: 15 Apr 2007, 20:40
by Elton John
silkov wrote:Elton John wrote:
I've seen Sibbo myself a few times. At his peak he was able to beat Minter which put him in line for an eliminator against top ranked Davison whom he outpointed in twelve to qualify for a title shot at Hagler.
Of course, I've seen the Hagler fight, followed by the Collins fight.
It seems that popularity influenced people into thinking John would have the same success as Hagler if you can believe that. I thought John looked too frail next to Tony.
Tony knew he had no reason to fear and in fact had an easy prey in front of him. He was able to avoid the jab coming in and scored with authority using the right lead the way my man Roy Jones would a decade later.
And that left hook was was without peer. Let him hit you with it and you're finished. And it wasn't just the power it carried but the fact that he used it so effectively in succession and on top of that, was also lethal in the form of a jab. No doubt about it, the man was gifted, especially when it came to quickly getting another man in trouble.
The Lee fight shortened his career I believe. he skyrocked downwards afterwards. Lee was mediocre but like Buster Douglas, he trained very hard for this fight. having a decided height advantage at 6-2 to Tony's 5-8 and turning lefty on him gave Tony stylistic problems.
James Toney I give credit to. he was the first man to beat Micheal Nunn but as a middleweight, he proved a few times he could be outworked and several of his bouts were to close to call. I think Sibbo would outwork him and definitely packed more of a punch. I like Sibbo to get inside and work him furiously to the body.
McCallum was technically better than Sibbo but not nearly as powerful. Maybe he could handle him and maybe he wouldn't. That's how I feel about him.
Hopkins was the best of a weak division. he beat a weaker man in Trinidad but it took him 12 to do it. He lost lopsidedly to Roy Jones who fought with one good hand.
I'm not knocking him but I have have never beaten an elite middleweight. An elite middleweight is someone like Kalambay, Nunn and in Hagler's day it was usually contenders.
His durability is without question. But, his power is a bit low and I very seriously doubt that Bernard could hurt Sibson in a tough fight. I'm not saying he would lose but I don't have full confidence in his ability to win either.
I wouldnt say Lee was mediocre, far from it, ...look at the wars he had with Doug Dewitt... he was an underachiever though and had an erratic career which partly stemmed I think from the fact that many fighters wouldnt touch him with a barge pole. Had he been handled better he could have gone much further imo.... good speed, skills, and excellent power... I never saw anyone else hurt Sibbo the way Lee did, (aside from Mwale early in Sibs career) not even Hagler.
Sibbo had a lot of injury problems after the Lee fight, I remember him having a chronic elbow problem that hampered his left hook... this led to inactivity... one problem with Sibson is that he probably turned pro too early at 18 and by the time he was in his late 20s he was a little jaded and disillusioned with boxing... I remember his last fight with Tate and he had been doing well but then just seemed to run out of steam and lose heart... I think there were quite a few problems for him going into that fight and he was probably sick of all the hassle that goes with boxing etc... the Sibbo of a few years earlier would have beaten Tate imo...
yes, it's hard to judge Tony off of that one fight with Hagler. It looked as if Marvin was too dominant. Judging Tony from the Lee fight is also misleading because Lee had so much height on him. Even at that, Tony was handling him with ease but once Don turned his stance around, he was vulnerable to Don's straight counter to the chin.
I don't remember ever seeing Don look as formidable since that time.
Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 19:32
by Jaclem
..decagon....i am most highly interested in your post on jose basora. i've always thought the number of losses on his record are deceptive because he fought damn near everybody....especially the guys nobody else wanted to fight....a real who's who of quality figthers. i'd like to see more about his draw with sugar ray. i do know he fought a war with ezzard charles....which ended in a kayo by ezzard but not before basora made a comeback himself in that fight and had ezzard in trouble. that fight was at a period in charles' career when having him in trouble could be dangerous as ezz often was at his most devastating when he himself had to rally. one of ezzard's cornermen though basora was on of the greatly under rated fighters ever.
do you think you could start a thread on him?
Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 19:56
by BoxBuzz
Archie is the perfect example here....having ezz in trouble at almost every moment appears to have been his undoing....over and over and over again.
Posted: 17 Apr 2007, 01:45
by Jaclem
..archie had ezzard in trouble only once...in their third fight...but buzzy likes to get archie and ezzard in over and over and over again...
.eeeek....one of my rare mistakes....on this very thread...i said i had nearly 2000 posts and when i just looked at my last one it's actually closing in on 3000!!! I don't like to count my very earliest ones....too smart ass...mostly just to get something started for the hell of it.
Posted: 20 Apr 2007, 10:24
by revporl
Anyone know what Tony Sibson has done since he retired from boxing?
I remember him as being a very popular fighter at the time.
Posted: 20 Apr 2007, 10:40
by KOJOE90
revporl wrote:Anyone know what Tony Sibson has done since he retired from boxing?
I remember him as being a very popular fighter at the time.
Invested his ring earnings well, made a few extra £££'s in the building trade, still enjoys a beer and moved from Leicester to somewhere on the south coast a few years back, I am lead to believe.
Very happy and healthy as far as I know,
Posted: 21 Apr 2007, 17:25
by KO Artist
funso banjo baby wrote:sibbo was great
look at the destruction of John Collins !!!!
fought his heart out against Hagler and would have won the middleweight title against any other fighter that night
look at the demolition of minter
i was the only one to go for sibbo on points against Kaylor
plus his name could be chanted out like a football song sssiiiibbbboooooo
Sibbo was the business, mate. Are you Funso Banjo?
Tony was a man in body and mind before he was 20. He won the British title v Frankie Lucas on his 21st Birthday in a top grudge match
Tony ducked no one. He was a converted southpaw, as strong as an ox and fearless
He would be champ today. A better schooled version of Miranda
Sibson is now a sucessful builder.
I saw his win over Davison live and Lucas too
Posted: 22 Apr 2007, 22:05
by ringsider
Tony ducked no one. He was a converted southpaw, as strong as an ox and fearless
Well if he was a converted southpaw, then someone in his camp knew something.
Posted: 24 Apr 2007, 06:41
by MightyWarrior
He was very popular in the midlands, where he came from.
He was a very down to earth sort, a bit like Hatton in a way, and that plus his blast em out ringstyle made him a real crowd pleaser.
That left hook could flatten a wall - no-one knocked out Alan Minter, who had a granite chin, but Sibson absolutely decimated him - not many saw it due to a TV dispute, but bootleg tapes are around, and it was a frightening display of power from Sibo that night.
Yes the Hagler fight was a disaster - for some bizzare reason Tony did no sparring in the run up - and it was touch and go if the fight would go ahead as planned, due to a raging blizzard hitting town.
But I doubt anyone could have beaten Hagler on that night. He was just simply magnificent.
Posted: 24 Apr 2007, 06:54
by funso banjo baby
cant believ this thread is still going
some of these people are knockers ignore them
get a dvd of sibbo's best fights
its all about bums on seats in this bizz
sibbo pulled out of the bobbie watts fight at wembley and mark kaylor stepped in...with Bruno the unofficial main event
and who's name did we chant all night ?
siiiibbbbbo
Posted: 24 Apr 2007, 12:57
by KOJOE90
MightyWarrior wrote:But I doubt anyone could have beaten Hagler on that night. He was just simply magnificent.
I read an interview with Sibson a few years ago where he stated that when he was 'on' he felt he could have given any Middleweight a hell of a fight.
But then there was Hagler, who Sibbo said something like "When I fought Hagler I was fighting a man who had mastered his art"
Sibbo, ever modest alluded that he maybe could never had beaten The Marvelous One.
Posted: 24 Apr 2007, 23:21
by Jaclem
..it's nice to read that what's-his-name didn't let his enormous world wide fame go to his head and now as he looks back on those halcyon days gives a modest assessment of himself in that fight. a good example for others to follow.
Posted: 25 Apr 2007, 18:57
by Collins2000
Jaclem wrote:..it's nice to read that what's-his-name didn't let his enormous world wide fame go to his head and now as he looks back on those halcyon days gives a modest assessment of himself in that fight. a good example for others to follow.
He gave the assessment immediately after the fight with Hagler. It isn't something he took any time to realise.
You claim to have hung around Ezzard Charles so if you need to understand why Tony was, and still is popular, just think Ezzard with a midlands accent.
Posted: 25 Apr 2007, 19:48
by icejack
Sibson was a very good fighter ,who as others have stated beat Minter (former world champ) ,Davidson (no 1 contender) and several other world rated fighters of the time (John Collins ,Mark Kaylor ,Louis Acaries ,Matteo Salvemini ,Roy Gumbs ) . Marvin Hagler was quotedf as saying Sibson hit him as hard as anyone he fought . Sibson in my opinion was better than Doug De witt ,Get the feeling some of the posts on this thread are by people who never have seen Sibson fight or are talking total crap !
Posted: 25 Apr 2007, 20:50
by Jaclem
...collins.....well expressed and it makes a change in my thinking....and i'm not being sarcastic. as for ezzard...sibson may well have been more popular...as ezzard was not popular when he was heavyweight champion. most of his aclaim has come in recent years, based on his earlier great career as a light heavy. alas....the boxing writers were mainly based in new york at that time, and he, archie moore, bivins, burley and those other greats just weren't seen much there, particularly when they were in their prime. just take a look on box rec at how long it took for archie moore to make his debut there.
i think sibson perhaps suffers from the same unfair neglect by american writers and fight fans such as myself.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 05:15
by icejack
Lets be realistic ,im not for 1 second putting Tony Sibson in the same class as Ezzard Charles ,but having attended most of his fights and hearing what various opponents of the time said of Sibson,some of the posts in this thread are laughable. With hindsight its obvious the likes of John Collins was overated but at the time he was considered a big hitting Golden boy who was going to get a title shot with Hagler by blasting out Sibbo with ease.Sibson destroyed him that night and Collins was never the same, a fighter like Mark Kaylor is someone most Americans know little of but he was one of the bravest fighters ever to come out of the uk and had decent power ,Sibson gave away height and reach and outboxed him with ease .
Sibson had vastly underated boxing skills and very fast hand speed and of course his left hook.Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it seems some on here ,have nothing better to do then belittle the abilitys of fighters they know F@ck all about!
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 05:21
by icejack
MightyWarrior wrote:He was very popular in the midlands, where he came from.
He was a very down to earth sort, a bit like Hatton in a way, and that plus his blast em out ringstyle made him a real crowd pleaser.
That left hook could flatten a wall - no-one knocked out Alan Minter, who had a granite chin, but Sibson absolutely decimated him - not many saw it due to a TV dispute, but bootleg tapes are around, and it was a frightening display of power from Sibo that night.
Yes the Hagler fight was a disaster - for some bizzare reason Tony did no sparring in the run up - and it was touch and go if the fight would go ahead as planned, due to a raging blizzard hitting town.
But I doubt anyone could have beaten Hagler on that night. He was just simply magnificent.
He didnt spar leading up to the fight because Cliff Gilpin had damaged his nose in sparring back in Englang.Sibson was getting £300000 for the Hagler fight (his biggest payday) and was worrid the fight would be cancelled if his nose was damaged further in sparring ,I think its fair to say ,in this day it would have been cancelled but remember there was only 1 champion at this titme not 4 and Sibson was concerned if he pulled out he wouldnt get another chance.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 06:02
by Ezzard
Agree that Sibson was a top contender. Had he met the hagler who fought Mugabi or Leonard he would have stood a chance. Instead he got bashed up by Hagler who fouhgt an almost perfect round in round one.
His win against Minter was something special and Minter himself is terribly overlooked.
I did read, way back when, that Sibson had a bit of a problem with burgers and chips... He liked the junk food...
maybe icejack can help but did he retire for a while? I remember some inactivity.
He never had a chance against Andries but I think he might have taken Tate if the fight had been 2-3 years earlier.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 07:16
by icejack
Yes! it has to be said Sibbo liked his food and although he never retired officially ,he was inactive after the Hagler fight for some time ,he also had a problem with a elbow injury which kept him out.As for the Andries fight ,Sibbo was a small middleweight ,as there was no Super middleweight division to speak of at the time ,he moved up to light heavy.At the weigh in for the Andries fight he alledgedly had weights in his shorts!!
A Sibson v Bennn fight would have been a very very exciting fight, of fights that could have been made at the time both Sibbo v Frank Fletcher and Juan Roldan were annouced but never came off,they would have been very exciting ,the Fletcher fight would have been similar to Frankie Lucas i believe
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 07:26
by Ezzard
icejack wrote:Yes! it has to be said Sibbo liked his food and although he never retired officially ,he was inactive after the Hagler fight for some time ,he also had a problem with a elbow injury which kept him out.As for the Andries fight ,Sibbo was a small middleweight ,as there was no Super middleweight division to speak of at the time ,he moved up to light heavy.At the weigh in for the Andries fight he alledgedly had weights in his shorts!!
A Sibson v Bennn fight would have been a very very exciting fight, of fights that could have been made at the time both Sibbo v Frank Fletcher and Juan Roldan were annouced but never came off,they would have been very exciting ,the Fletcher fight would have been similar to Frankie Lucas i believe
Cheers
I emember the story about the weights now you've mentioned it.
I'd have backed him to beat Fletcher and Roldan too. Hamsho would have been a good match up but I'd give Hmasho the edge in that one.
Sibson-Benn would have been a cracker.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 08:13
by icejack
Hamsho was very tough but not a great boxer ,i would bet on Sibbo to land one of his left hooks at some stage and control the action with his superior hand speed and boxing skills ,Always thought Minter was robbed against Hamsho to be honest
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 09:45
by MightyWarrior
icejack wrote:
He didnt spar leading up to the fight because Cliff Gilpin had damaged his nose in sparring back in Englang.Sibson was getting £300000 for the Hagler fight (his biggest payday) and was worrid the fight would be cancelled if his nose was damaged further in sparring ,I think its fair to say ,in this day it would have been cancelled but remember there was only 1 champion at this titme not 4 and Sibson was concerned if he pulled out he wouldnt get another chance.
Ah that explains that one then
To add to his troubles, I think the elastic in his shorts failed during the Hagler fight, and he was worried about getting exposed in more ways than one.
The great trainer George Francis tells a good story, about persuading Sibson's manager to take on George's fighter Lotte Mwale at LH, early in their careers.
They asked him if Lotte could punch, and Francis insisted he couldn't break an egg.....then Lotte proceeded to ice Sibo inside a round.
Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 10:08
by icejack
That was before Tony went with Sam Burns (a real old time manager) ,Sibson had tough fights early in his career ,I believe he fought Roy Gumbs in his 8th fight ,also a decent West Indian bloke called Eddie Smith (i think) who beat him but Sibbo done him in the return.He also stopped a American guy called Bobby Coolidge in 7 rounds who was unbeaten in a crossroads sort of fight.He was only 21 when he went 15 rounds with Kevin Finnegan.I think it has to be said Sibson had managerial problems early and was never protected like he would have been if he had been say a Terry Lawless fighter.