BoxRec

Terry D wrote:

Katon! wrote:

Terry D wrote:Max Collazo threw more punches in their final round than Witter does per fight.

Hatton just deconstructed and stopped a, for some, top ten P4P guy. Witter is coming off two poor fights and is having problems convincing his madatory fighter he is worth the effort.

And throwing more matters how?

Castillo was a great win I don't doubt It but how Is Castillo P4p?

Poor fights? He dominated Morua and Corley Is It only considered poor because he Isn't reckless and keeps to his skills? Since Corrales 2, didn't Castillo look poor In his last 2 fights before Hatton?

How Is Harris not convinced Witter Is worth the effort?

Erm, James said Collazo had a higher workrate and you disputed this so I addressed that. As in James said Hatton is troubled by workrate, James, I think said collazo troubled him with it, you said Collazo has no workrate, I pointed out that he did in that big final round. He fought with more fire and urgency than Witter ever did.

Some consider Castillo P4P. Don't forget he avenged a win over Corrales by clean KO.

Witter did look poor in both winning and defending his title. His workrate, always poor, is even more in decline and his power is vastly overrated. Hatton has stopped two high-level fighters, Witter can barely trouble them beyond Euro level.

Harris is as convinced that Witter is worth travelling/training for as you, Witters 'fans', are. As I keep asking why do his fans only pay him lip-service?

A wave of 'Get Witter a Pension' hit in January and, like the fighter himself, it has blow itself out leaving him looking for alternative pension plans.

Witter insulted both Hatton and Thaxton with his antics, now they are fighting regulalry and seem content whilst Witter is inactive and embittered.

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Terry D wrote: Hatton just deconstructed and stopped a, for some, top ten P4P guy. .

Errrrr no Castillo hasn't been top10 P4P in the last 2 years and probably wasn't top10 P4P 2years ago either.

Actually for some he was, hence my saying

Hatton just deconstructed and stopped a, for some, top ten P4P guy

Castillo went top ten P4P when he KO'd Corrales and since then he has lost to who exactly? Those who ranked him then probably had him ranked last week.

Autobarn wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Terry D wrote: Hatton just deconstructed and stopped a, for some, top ten P4P guy. .

Errrrr no Castillo hasn't been top10 P4P in the last 2 years and probably wasn't top10 P4P 2years ago either.

Castillo was certainly a top 10 pound for pounder through 2005 and into 2006. He beat Lazcano, Casamayor (now Lineal lightweight champion), Julio Diaz (then was vacated IBF champ & is IBF champ again now), and lost to Corrales in a fight he would have won if it was kept in the rules, then got his own back by fvcking with the rules himself (in essence, Castillo & Corrales came off as equals). With the weight disgrace, plus his pedigree, the move to 140 was one that many were demanding. It took the luster off him, but JLC's done a lot in his career at the elite level.

~ MIKEE ~ wrote:"And stop excusing Castillos cheating and taking away from the late Corrales victory - how do you know he wouldn't have been ko'd by COrrales regardless? You don't, Corrales was continually bombarding him with devastating shots before and after him being knocked down. "

Not to take anything away from anyone, but how do you view the spitting out of the gumshield incident? An effort to gain some respite? If that is the case, seeing as it is an unusual act in the sport, would you not conclude that he felt in need of that respite, so much so he would risk the point deduction for it... and then, would you agree that you must REALLY need that respite to exchange it for a point on the scorecards?

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

~ MIKEE ~ wrote:"And stop excusing Castillos cheating and taking away from the late Corrales victory - how do you know he wouldn't have been ko'd by COrrales regardless? You don't, Corrales was continually bombarding him with devastating shots before and after him being knocked down. "

Not to take anything away from anyone, but how do you view the spitting out of the gumshield incident? An effort to gain some respite? If that is the case, seeing as it is an unusual act in the sport, would you not conclude that he felt in need of that respite, so much so he would risk the point deduction for it... and then, would you agree that you must REALLY need that respite to exchange it for a point on the scorecards?

Corrales got fined a point for spitting out the gum shield and Castillo had he survived would have surely lost on points. If Castillo had taken a knee he may have won on points. Corrales just proved to be the better surviver and better concusive puncher of the 2. Maybe Castillo too benefited from the resprite as he was getting more and more hurt.

Obviously Corrales wanted to stall BUT it may have been all accidental and he didn't know he'd be fined and the gumsheild could have kept slipping out due to concusion and exhaustion especially the first time. All fighters twist the rules - ie Hatton faking low blows against Castillo and low blowing Tyszu. Should we change the result of every fight with gamesmanship now?

~ MIKEE ~ wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

~ MIKEE ~ wrote:"And stop excusing Castillos cheating and taking away from the late Corrales victory - how do you know he wouldn't have been ko'd by COrrales regardless? You don't, Corrales was continually bombarding him with devastating shots before and after him being knocked down. "

Not to take anything away from anyone, but how do you view the spitting out of the gumshield incident? An effort to gain some respite? If that is the case, seeing as it is an unusual act in the sport, would you not conclude that he felt in need of that respite, so much so he would risk the point deduction for it... and then, would you agree that you must REALLY need that respite to exchange it for a point on the scorecards?

Corrales got fined a point for spitting out the gum shield and Castillo had he survived would have surely lost on points. If Castillo had taken a knee he may have won on points. Corrales just proved to be the better surviver and better concusive puncher of the 2. Maybe Castillo too benefited from the resprite as he was getting more and more hurt.

Obviously Corrales wanted to stall BUT it may have been all accidental and he didn't know he'd be fined and the gumsheild could have kept slipping out due to concusion and exhaustion especially the first time. All fighters twist the rules - ie Hatton faking low blows against Castillo and low blowing Tyszu. Should we change the result of every fight with gamesmanship now?

I was just interested in your opinion mate, ty.
I just meant that without the interruption IS IT POSSIBLE that Castillo could have stopped Corrales?

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Castillo was certainly a top 10 pound for pounder through 2005 and into 2006. He beat Lazcano, Casamayor (now Lineal lightweight champion), Julio Diaz (then was vacated IBF champ & is IBF champ again now), and lost to Corrales in a fight he would have won if it was kept in the rules, then got his own back by fvcking with the rules himself (in essence, Castillo & Corrales came off as equals). With the weight disgrace, plus his pedigree, the move to 140 was one that many were demanding. It took the luster off him, but JLC's done a lot in his career at the elite level.

No he wasn't, He wasn't a top10 P4P fighter after being ko'd by Corrales (in 2005) and he shouldn't have been after cheating the scales in the second fight and fighting a weight drained lightweight as a 140lber (in 2005).

Castillo has always fought the best BUT many had him losing to Joel Casamaya and Stevie Johnston (not to mention Mayweather/Corrales). He hasn't been completely dominant at 135 by any means. Yes he beat the B Class fighters like Julio (not Juan) Diaz and Lazcanno but not without troubles

And stop excusing Castillos cheating and taking away from the late Corrales victory - how do you know he wouldn't have been ko'd by COrrales regardless? You don't, Corrales was continually bombarding him with devastating shots before and after him being knocked down.

Castillo is very good but calling him a top 10 P4P is very flatering to him.

For once we agree. Corrales spat out his shield in a spur of the moment act. Castillo planned to cheat in fight II, probably, from the moment he lost fight I.

Castillo is a fine boxer but he does have the Mexican trait of moaning a lot when he loses and getting spiteful over it before trying to cheat in some way or another.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Errrrr no Castillo hasn't been top10 P4P in the last 2 years and probably wasn't top10 P4P 2years ago either.

Castillo was certainly a top 10 pound for pounder through 2005 and into 2006. He beat Lazcano, Casamayor (now Lineal lightweight champion), Julio Diaz (then was vacated IBF champ & is IBF champ again now), and lost to Corrales in a fight he would have won if it was kept in the rules, then got his own back by fvcking with the rules himself (in essence, Castillo & Corrales came off as equals). With the weight disgrace, plus his pedigree, the move to 140 was one that many were demanding. It took the luster off him, but JLC's done a lot in his career at the elite level.

No he wasn't, He wasn't a top10 P4P fighter after being ko'd by Corrales (in 2005) and he shouldn't have been after cheating the scales in the second fight and fighting a weight drained lightweight as a 140lber (in 2005).

Castillo has always fought the best BUT many had him losing to Joel Casamaya and Stevie Johnston (not to mention Mayweather/Corrales). He hasn't been completely dominant at 135 by any means. Yes he beat the B Class fighters like Julio (not Juan) Diaz and Lazcanno but not without troubles

And stop excusing Castillos cheating and taking away from the late Corrales victory - how do you know he wouldn't have been ko'd by COrrales regardless? You don't, Corrales was continually bombarding him with devastating shots before and after him being knocked down.

Castillo is very good but calling him a top 10 P4P is very flatering to him.

fried bread wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Castillo was certainly a top 10 pound for pounder through 2005 and into 2006. He beat Lazcano, Casamayor (now Lineal lightweight champion), Julio Diaz (then was vacated IBF champ & is IBF champ again now), and lost to Corrales in a fight he would have won if it was kept in the rules, then got his own back by fvcking with the rules himself (in essence, Castillo & Corrales came off as equals). With the weight disgrace, plus his pedigree, the move to 140 was one that many were demanding. It took the luster off him, but JLC's done a lot in his career at the elite level.

No he wasn't, He wasn't a top10 P4P fighter after being ko'd by Corrales (in 2005) and he shouldn't have been after cheating the scales in the second fight and fighting a weight drained lightweight as a 140lber (in 2005).

Castillo has always fought the best BUT many had him losing to Joel Casamaya and Stevie Johnston (not to mention Mayweather/Corrales). He hasn't been completely dominant at 135 by any means. Yes he beat the B Class fighters like Julio (not Juan) Diaz and Lazcanno but not without troubles

And stop excusing Castillos cheating and taking away from the late Corrales victory - how do you know he wouldn't have been ko'd by COrrales regardless? You don't, Corrales was continually bombarding him with devastating shots before and after him being knocked down.

Castillo is very good but calling him a top 10 P4P is very flatering to him.

A lot of people will disagree with that. Corrales essentially got a huge break from 2 knockdowns he couldn't really recover from. Also, many feel Mayweather got a gift nod over him. In essence Castillo was VERY hard done by in the 2 biggest fights he had.

Before that Castillo had face everyone of worth at lightweight, and beaten most of them. You say that Johnston and Casa beat him - but the truth is Castillo got a draw & 2 wins against two superb boxers & these aren't regarded as robberies. He also controlled Lazcano and Diaz in their primes, battered Cesar Bazan (former WBC titlist 1-1 with Johnston), strong lightweights all.

That is an outstanding body of work. Few have faced as much tough comp today and done as well.

Terry D wrote:

ben k wrote:

Terry D wrote: Actually for some he was, hence my saying
Castillo went top ten P4P when he KO'd Corrales and since then he has lost to who exactly? Those who ranked him then probably had him ranked last week.

You must be retarded to have had Castillo top 10 before this fight, He hasnt been top 10 for a few years.
I think Hatton fought and dominated Castillo but i picked Hatton to win easily and wasnt suprised after seeing Castillo's last fight.

You must be of a greater retardation not to see that I use 'some people' to insinuate that I am not lumping myself in with them (you must be a candidate for chemical castration to see that I don't point this out in the above post also to correct someone who made the mistake you then compound). Other people on this forum have managed that level of lateral thinking in regards to previous posts I've made so either ship-up or ship-out.

As for Castillo not being top ten P4P 'for a few years' aren't we coming up to the second anniversary of him KOing Corrales? The Corrales who beat him over two years ago so, I assume, you had Castillo at 10 'a few years ago', then Corrales (after fight I), then Castillo (after fightII) then you dropped Castillo despite him not losing in this period? Now, that is silly.

Proof, if needed, that only drooling idiots keep a top ten P4P list (sorry James and anyone who I respect on here who does).

stujones wrote:No-one can really say the full score of that situation. So if Calzaghe fights and beats Kessler would you be pissed off cause he hasn't beaten Carl Froch. Then if he beats Froch would you be pissed off cause he hasn't beaten Catley?

I do want to see it happen, but I don't think Hatton will lose sleep if he doesn't. He's proven himself.

Witter continually talks about Hatton ducking, but I wish he would be more specific when it comes to his press conference. Lets see if Witter is prepared to take a pay cut to fight Hatton. Lets see if Wellington can do a post here that shows that Hatton is made an offer he cannot refuse.

Yes, that is harsh on Witter - but it is Hatton who is calling the shots and with some justification. He's beaten two pound for pounders. Witter, Toress, Malingagi, Mbaye would be like "challengers".

For all we know, Witter could be doing a Steve Collins in his call out of Roy Jones.

Autobarn wrote:Close does not mean controversial. I can't help but think Ph/Nutritian is burying Castillo for the sake of propping up Witter.

Bottom line: Castillo held his own against three of the finest pure lightweight boxers of this decade.

SOME feel he bested Mayweather 1st time. SOME feel Casa won. SOME feel Johnston won one of those fights. Pathetic to say he lost all of them, not to mention agenda driven. If you mention that he got lucky, then you have to consider JLCs lack of luck.

Personally, I had Castillo beating Mayweather 1, losing the second, edging Casamayor by a point, and going draw-win with Johnston. Your scorecard, PN, is not final.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Close does not mean controversial. I can't help but think Ph/Nutritian is burying Castillo for the sake of propping up Witter.

Bottom line: Castillo held his own against three of the finest pure lightweight boxers of this decade.

SOME feel he bested Mayweather 1st time. SOME feel Casa won. SOME feel Johnston won one of those fights. Pathetic to say he lost all of them, not to mention agenda driven. If you mention that he got lucky, then you have to consider JLCs lack of luck.

Personally, I had Castillo beating Mayweather 1, losing the second, edging Casamayor by a point, and going draw-win with Johnston. Your scorecard, PN, is not final.

If you want to look through my posts, you'll find I scored Casa-Castillo to Casa years before Castillo was mentioned as an opponent for Hatton. Also if you followed boxing around Casa-Castillo you will see most fans who saw the fight saw it as a robbery, most scored it to Cassa so I'm hardly alone on that 1.

Alternatively if you don't want to go through all my posts you can take your comments back about me being disingeuinous, I have never claimed anything other than this being a fantastic win for Hatton, it is not a career defining type of fight though and Castillo in his prime never proved himself to be above Cassa, Johnston, Corrales and showed himself to be below Mayweather. That doesn't mean he isn't a top fighter he is.

stujones wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Close does not mean controversial. I can't help but think Ph/Nutritian is burying Castillo for the sake of propping up Witter.

Bottom line: Castillo held his own against three of the finest pure lightweight boxers of this decade.

SOME feel he bested Mayweather 1st time. SOME feel Casa won. SOME feel Johnston won one of those fights. Pathetic to say he lost all of them, not to mention agenda driven. If you mention that he got lucky, then you have to consider JLCs lack of luck.

Personally, I had Castillo beating Mayweather 1, losing the second, edging Casamayor by a point, and going draw-win with Johnston. Your scorecard, PN, is not final.

If you want to look through my posts, you'll find I scored Casa-Castillo to Casa years before Castillo was mentioned as an opponent for Hatton. Also if you followed boxing around Casa-Castillo you will see most fans who saw the fight saw it as a robbery, most scored it to Cassa so I'm hardly alone on that 1.

Alternatively if you don't want to go through all my posts you can take your comments back about me being disingeuinous, I have never claimed anything other than this being a fantastic win for Hatton, it is not a career defining type of fight though and Castillo in his prime never proved himself to be above Cassa, Johnston, Corrales and showed himself to be below Mayweather. That doesn't mean he isn't a top fighter he is.

No, Sky scored it for Castillo and those you I was in contact with at the time who scored it for Casamayor dipped Castillo in the rematch. It was never a robbery.... The majority of views I read thought Castillo nicked it. He certainly was the fighter dominating the later stages and dominated Casa like no other fighter has. Casamayor often talks about the robberies of Corrales 2 and Freitas.... but not often says he was robbed vs Castillo. He knows he was on the verge of getting stopped IMO. Never wobbled, but was exhausted.

Yes, I do generally agree that Castillo never proved himself about Cassamayor/Johnston and Corrales (although that is debatable as I would say the vast majority of refs would have stopped it when Corrales went down for the second time and he did him like a kipper in the rematch). However, does that mean he is not a top fighter. Johnston was a crafty fighter who was in many peoples P4P list himself when he lost to Castillo. He was undoubtedly the #1 Lightweight. Similarly for Cassamayor and Corrales - top fighters.

You can say that about pretty much any fighter whose lost.