James Oyebola is in a critical condition

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 24 Jul 2007, 15:22

Yes Terry, but if somone you knew was chopped unjustly I doubt you would take a such a blahzee attitude on them getting the wrong guy.

Plus there is the old idea that the State shouldnt be able to take the life of one of its subjects..

Yes, id like some people put to death but it just wouldnt work

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 24 Jul 2007, 15:32

Terry D wrote:One thing that you can say about capital punishment and getting the wrong person is that you cannot make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

And this from an educated man.

I am surprised, I have to admit.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 24 Jul 2007, 16:09

The introduction of the Death Penalty will always be an emotively charged issue.

The fact that the justice system doesn’t always get it right makes me defer to a higher wisdom. However, in instances where there is no doubt ie DNA evidence, CCTV footage, cast iron witnesses etc., I feel you could make a case in the more extreme of murders. I am talking here of predatory murders (elderly and children) and inexplicable senseless ones committed against the defenceless.

Whilst idealistically I agree that the State should not take life, the real world is a harsher environment and apparently getting more so. Therefore Natural Law and justice appeals more to my sensibility than any idealism that I may have once had.

Anyway I hope James Oyebola manages to pull through, as unlikely as it appears at the moment. I never really knew him or talked to him but I did share some London Squad training sessions at the St Monicas ABC in Hoxton over 20 odd years ago.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 24 Jul 2007, 17:25

I am all for the death penalty,if it's clear cut cases,where there can't be any doubt.

For instance,when these pudenda are caught(hopefully)and they are proven guilty beyond any doubt,I don't want them to have a chance of rehabilitation at MY cost,I would rather see the fvckers dead.
The world is better off without vermin like that using up valuable oxygen

I'am sick of convicts getting moddy coyled at the expense of hard working,law abiding citizens.
The amount of money it cost's to keep a lag these days is ridiculous.I say half it,give em bread and water,and take away their electricity,let alone their playstations and TV's.

Fvck em.You break the rules,you pay the price.

Albert · Post by **Albert** » 24 Jul 2007, 17:31

yiddo14 wrote:I am all for the death penalty,if it's clear cut cases,where there can't be any doubt.

Fvck em.You break the rules,you pay the price.

Some may say you are being harsh but I have to agree with you.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 24 Jul 2007, 17:32

Terry D wrote:One thing that you can say about capital punishment and getting the wrong person is that you cannot make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. Occasionallly an innocent person will be put to death but on the other hand we will be weeding out a lot of bad wheat if we accept capital punishment for certain crimes.

I feel the crux of the capital punishment argument if whether having one guilty man executed is too much.

If we did have the death penalty there will always be errors and innocent men will die.

Is it worth sacrificing a few innocent men to execute many guilty men?

Remember the Birmingham six would have all have been executed.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 24 Jul 2007, 17:36

no change in the info according to BBC News Website

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 25 Jul 2007, 04:10

We could have life imprisonment where life actually means life, not 10-15 years.

For example if one of these lads is 20 years old right now, gets 25 years, gets out after 13 years with good behaviour, he is walking the streets at age 33 despite having pointlessly murdered someone. That's outrageous, they gave up their right to ever participate in society they day they shot someone in my opinion.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 25 Jul 2007, 04:17

Goz wrote:We could have life imprisonment where life actually means life, not 10-15 years.

For example if one of these lads is 20 years old right now, gets 25 years, gets out after 13 years with good behaviour, he is walking the streets at age 33 despite having pointlessly murdered someone. That's outrageous, they gave up their right to ever participate in society they day they shot someone in my opinion.

Would'nt you rather see such people executed though?

As I previoulsy stated,to keep a prisoner for a week these days,is pretty expensive.

Why should we all have to pay for them?

Hang them,then the money that was put aside for these people can be spent elsewhere

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 25 Jul 2007, 06:14

Put them in a 8x3 box for the 10 years then kill them by injection.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 25 Jul 2007, 06:46

DG. wrote:Put them in a 8x3 box for the 10 years then kill them by injection.

Put them in 8x3 min rounds with a 6'9" heavyweight and no guns.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 25 Jul 2007, 10:24

Gutted to hear this news about James. I just pray he pulls through.

I've fond memories of Oyebola back in his boxing days. The two crackers with Scott Welch, starching Mitchell and one of the most frightening right handers you're likely to see.....his stunning knockout of Art Terry. I reckon you could the "crack" of the punching landing from OUTSIDE the hall.

Hang in there champ!

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 25 Jul 2007, 10:51

Since the Death Penalty is irreversible you need ot have numerous appeals and using the states as an example they will often spent 5 or 6 years or more on death row (and still innocent people get executed and reformed people) waiting for death (pretty cruel and unusual if you ask me), the cost of maintining a death row is extremely high, that plus the numerous very expensive appeals often means that the death penalty will cost more of 'your' money than life in prison. It makes little financial, moral or justice sense.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 25 Jul 2007, 10:52

Also if you look at America, people tend to spend 20 years on death row before they are executed anyway, so there is no great economic saving in that respect.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 25 Jul 2007, 10:53

there are apparently more suicides than executions on Death Row

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 25 Jul 2007, 11:18

livingstone cole wrote:It costs more to execute someone in the U.S than it does to keep them in prison for their entire life.

I've heard this before, but how does it actually work?

Surely one needleful of poison or a dose of electricity doesn't equate to a lifetime's worth of meals, guarding, administration and health care?

E · Post by E » 25 Jul 2007, 11:24

oliverfennell wrote:
livingstone cole wrote:It costs more to execute someone in the U.S than it does to keep them in prison for their entire life.
I've heard this before, but how does it actually work?

Surely one needleful of poison or a dose of electricity doesn't equate to a lifetime's worth of meals, guarding, administration and health care?

It is all about the court time, legal costs etc involved in the appeals.

If you imagine the time, personnel, lawyers, judges involved and these all have to be paid by the state.

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 25 Jul 2007, 11:25

Well, a lot of the cost is in the appeals process, court time, court officers, defense lawyers, prosecution, investigators, juries, experts, judges, salaries, maintenenace of death row, extra security, high salaries to the executioners, pardoning requests, the need to keep the execution facilities up to date and working, then add in the amount of time they are being incarcerated during the appeals processes and take that off you life in prison total as well.

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 25 Jul 2007, 11:26

Plus any wrongful executions will lead to multi multi million dollar law suits, and fighting the numerous civil law suits from anti death penalty organisations.

E · Post by E » 25 Jul 2007, 11:50

Latest is this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 914956.stm

Seems like there is hope.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 25 Jul 2007, 11:58

E wrote:Latest is this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 914956.stm

Seems like there is hope.

I dunno if this means there is hope or not??

But come on James, you can make it, everyone is behind you.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 25 Jul 2007, 12:26

Keep punching Champ.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 25 Jul 2007, 12:43

I hate to say it, but James may be better off if he doesn't pull through. I used to know a guy in Herne Hill, who coincidentally was a former boxer, he was an amateur standout from South London, who was shot in the face at point blank range in a nightclub.

He lost an eye, a massive chunk out of his head, and had to relearn to talk. Suffers from terrible constant pain in his head, has trouble walking and communicating, and suffered quite severe brain damage as well as emotional trauma. He is walking around and can talk a little, but he cuts a very sorry figure indeed.

God knows what sort of state James will be in if he does pull through. Hopefully the damage isn't too severe, but being shot point blank in the face is seldom pretty. I hope as said that he can pull through all this relatively intact as one can hope after catching one in the face.

Good luck, he's going to need it.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 25 Jul 2007, 13:30

it makes you so angry. i keep trying to put myself into the mentality of the c... who did this - the one who aimed and pulled the trigger - and...
i just cant understand this extraordinary action. it was probably because of some cranky idea of losing "respect" in front of his companions. why didnt he just say "oh, sorry bro, i'll put it out" simple. no shooting. no 10 years in prison.

i'm with you champ

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 25 Jul 2007, 14:31

Because that would have meant losing face, which seems to be what it's all about these days. Better anything than being made to look like a fool. It's a fucked up mentality, but for some people, it's all they got.

I was cycling through loughborough junction the other day, and I've got to say, the level of poverty in that area of london is staggering. They need to bulldoze some of these vast housing estates and start again, they are just huge misery holes.

Round me there are four or five HUGE estates. Stockwell Park, Tulse Hill (at least half a mile long and the same across), Myatt's Field just to name a few. It's no accident that these impoverished housing blocks are where all the gangs who cause all the trouble round my area come from.