evander holyfield best heavyweight 1990-2000

[SaadOffTheDeck]

None of that changes how flawed your logic is. And I certainly am not obliged to rank bad decisions as historical victories. That's the most absurd thing I've read from you yet. I rate good losses much higher than tainted or meaningless wins. Mercer fighting Lewis & Holyfield tough rates waaaaaaaaay higher than a joke decision over a 48yr old Foreman. I don't even know how you can type that with a straight face. While you acknowledge the names at the bottom are interchangeable. Briggs accomplished nothing, he has no business on that list at all.

And Bowe is a clear #3 in that group behind Holyfield & Lewis. They have too much depth in their resume's for Riddick to compete with.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Briggs was garbage and should be viewed accordingly.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yup, George whipped his ass. Oddly, I thought Savarese beat George in his previous fight. Just think, Lou was this close to making Boilermaker's prestigious decade top 10.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Even more disturbingly, seeing Savarese's name etched permanently into the books as a linear HW champ would have made me puke.

Can you imagine the landrush for a title shot between Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis had a guy like Savarese taken the crown!?

I recall reading a while back Foreman backed out of a fight with none other than one Hasim Rahman (I cant remember why), opting for Briggs instead. Rahman and his management were apparently livid.

How do you guys see that clash turning out, circa-1997?

[Boilermaker]

None of that changes how flawed your logic is. And I certainly am not obliged to rank bad decisions as historical victories. That's the most absurd thing I've read from you yet. I rate good losses much higher than tainted or meaningless wins. Mercer fighting Lewis & Holyfield tough rates waaaaaaaaay higher than a joke decision over a 48yr old Foreman. I don't even know how you can type that with a straight face. While you acknowledge the names at the bottom are interchangeable. Briggs accomplished nothing, he has no business on that list at all.

And Bowe is a clear #3 in that group behind Holyfield & Lewis. They have too much depth in their resume's for Riddick to compete with.

So Bowe beats Holyfield 2 out of 3, but ranks behind him? Lewis beats Holyfield 1 out of 2 with a draw and also ranks behind him

Mercer Cant beat Jesse Ferguson but we rate him because he lost to Lennox lewis and holyfield

You admit that Foreman is the 5th or so best fighter in the decade. Briggs beat the 5th or so heavyweight. That is his achievement. Which ever way you dice it, beating the 5th best heavyweight is better than losing to the best heavyweight and beating the 10th best heavyweight.

now of course you personally dont think he should have beaten the 5th best heavyweight, but the fact is that he did beat him, and that your opinion is of zero relevance. The record books record it as a win, and that is what the fighters achievements ought to be judged on. Much like when Marvin Hart beat Jack Johnson by fighting the way the judges (or in his case the referee) wanted. The name of the game is to win the fight on the scorecards of the three judges that is all that counts. Many people say norton beat Ali 2 or 3 times, or Shavers beat Ali, or whoever. The reality is that they didnt. When looking at achievements, you look at who a fighter beat not who you think he would beat.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

None of that changes how flawed your logic is. And I certainly am not obliged to rank bad decisions as historical victories. That's the most absurd thing I've read from you yet. I rate good losses much higher than tainted or meaningless wins. Mercer fighting Lewis & Holyfield tough rates waaaaaaaaay higher than a joke decision over a 48yr old Foreman. I don't even know how you can type that with a straight face. While you acknowledge the names at the bottom are interchangeable. Briggs accomplished nothing, he has no business on that list at all.

And Bowe is a clear #3 in that group behind Holyfield & Lewis. They have too much depth in their resume's for Riddick to compete with.

So Bowe beats Holyfield 2 out of 3, but ranks behind him? Lewis beats Holyfield 1 out of 2 with a draw and also ranks behind him

Mercer Cant beat Jesse Ferguson but we rate him because he lost to Lennox lewis and holyfield

You admit that Foreman is the 5th or so best fighter in the decade. Briggs beat the 5th or so heavyweight. That is his achievement. Which ever way you dice it, beating the 5th best heavyweight is better than losing to the best heavyweight and beating the 10th best heavyweight.

now of course you personally dont think he should have beaten the 5th best heavyweight, but the fact is that he did beat him, and that your opinion is of zero relevance. The record books record it as a win, and that is what the fighters achievements ought to be judged on. Much like when Marvin Hart beat Jack Johnson by fighting the way the judges (or in his case the referee) wanted. The name of the game is to win the fight on the scorecards of the three judges that is all that counts. Many people say norton beat Ali 2 or 3 times, or Shavers beat Ali, or whoever. The reality is that they didnt. When looking at achievements, you look at who a fighter beat not who you think he would beat.

My opinion has zero relevance to my rankings?

[Goodnight, Irene]

None of that changes how flawed your logic is. And I certainly am not obliged to rank bad decisions as historical victories. That's the most absurd thing I've read from you yet. I rate good losses much higher than tainted or meaningless wins. Mercer fighting Lewis & Holyfield tough rates waaaaaaaaay higher than a joke decision over a 48yr old Foreman. I don't even know how you can type that with a straight face. While you acknowledge the names at the bottom are interchangeable. Briggs accomplished nothing, he has no business on that list at all.

And Bowe is a clear #3 in that group behind Holyfield & Lewis. They have too much depth in their resume's for Riddick to compete with.

So Bowe beats Holyfield 2 out of 3, but ranks behind him? Lewis beats Holyfield 1 out of 2 with a draw and also ranks behind him

Mercer Cant beat Jesse Ferguson but we rate him because he lost to Lennox lewis and holyfield

You admit that Foreman is the 5th or so best fighter in the decade. Briggs beat the 5th or so heavyweight. That is his achievement. Which ever way you dice it, beating the 5th best heavyweight is better than losing to the best heavyweight and beating the 10th best heavyweight.

now of course you personally dont think he should have beaten the 5th best heavyweight, but the fact is that he did beat him, and that your opinion is of zero relevance. The record books record it as a win, and that is what the fighters achievements ought to be judged on. Much like when Marvin Hart beat Jack Johnson by fighting the way the judges (or in his case the referee) wanted. The name of the game is to win the fight on the scorecards of the three judges that is all that counts. Many people say norton beat Ali 2 or 3 times, or Shavers beat Ali, or whoever. The reality is that they didnt. When looking at achievements, you look at who a fighter beat not who you think he would beat.

In a sport as crooked as Boxing, this is simply retarded. Theres just no way for me to phrase it politely, mate. Its indefensibly stupid --- and thats leaving aside the fact Saad is talking about the Foreman of the EARLY 90's being among the better Heavies, not the near 50-year-old Briggs received a CLEAR gift against.

I am, however, curious to hear how you rate Chavez and Holyfield, to name but two of a billion bad decisions, for their draws with Whitaker and Lewis respectively. How much does it add to their legacies? Id love to hear it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

In all of his stupidity, and it's quite vast, I don't get how smashing the #10 guy at his peak and losing very tight decisions to #2 & #3 pale in comparison to getting your ass whipped by an old man who wouldn't crack a top 20 in the state he was in. Of course I guess Boiler was just tallying up George's impressive victories over Schulz & Savarese and saw no slippage in him. Mercer also fought Witherspoon, I thought Tim won 7 rounds but since the judges disagreed that is another impressive win for him.

[Bricks]

Results in a sport like boxing beset by crooked judges and erratic refereeing decisions, can not be judged on pure statistical results only......Bowe took 2 terrible hidings in his two "wins" over Golota.....yet the whole world knows he was ruined by those "wins" and exposed. Old man Foreman would have put a worse beating on Bowe than Golota did. George was robbed against and Briggs....and he beat Savarese, just watch the 12th round to see who was the one winning at the end.

[Boilermaker]

I just lost a massive post setting out all the official wins and losses of the top contenders and dont have time to reproduce, but based purely on results here is a quick summary:

1. Riddick Bowe - (2-1 vs Holyfield) No other losses
2. Lennox Lewis - (1-0-1 vs Holyfield, 1-1 Draw McCall)
3. Evander Holyfield (W Tyson Drawn Moorer (1-1) Lost Bowe, Lewis)
4. Douglas - W Tyson L Holyfield (Beat Mcall late 1989 but it doesnt count and has a past prime comeback loss late in decade which shouldnt count)
5. Tyson - W Bruno, Ruddock L Holyfield, Douglas
6. Foreman - W Moorer, L Briggs
7. McCall - W Holmes Drew Lewis Lost Bruno, Tucker
8. Bruno - W McCall L Tyson, Lewis (no other losses)
9. Briggs - W Foreman L Lewis D Botha
10 Morrison - W Foreman, Ruddock L Lewis, Bent D Purity

Tucker, Holmes, Ruddock, Botha, Mercer and others miss out on the basis that they realistically did not beat the best one of best fighters of the era they fougth in. Some others who had some decent wins or draws had too many other losses against average fighters to be taken seriously. Jessie ferguson is one that crops up. Botha and Morrison both surprised me as to how their two records stack up.


I have never rated Douglas over Tyson for the decade before, but realistically, Douglas not only beat Tyson but his only loss was to the guy who beat Tyson (and Douglas had a better excuse, being in worse condition).

And here is the era that started the controversy. Shannon Briggs was the big winner.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I just lost a massive post setting out all the official wins and losses of the top contenders and dont have time to reproduce, but based purely on results here is a quick summary:

1. Riddick Bowe - (2-1 vs Holyfield) No other losses
2. Lennox Lewis - (1-0-1 vs Holyfield, 1-1 Draw McCall)
3. Evander Holyfield (W Tyson Drawn Moorer (1-1) Lost Bowe, Lewis)
4. Douglas - W Tyson L Holyfield (Beat Mcall late 1989 but it doesnt count and has a past prime comeback loss late in decade which shouldnt count)
5. Tyson - W Bruno, Ruddock L Holyfield, Douglas
6. Foreman - W Moorer, L Briggs
7. McCall - W Holmes Drew Lewis Lost Bruno, Tucker
8. Bruno - W McCall L Tyson, Lewis (no other losses)
9. Briggs - W Foreman L Lewis D Botha
10 Morrison - W Foreman, Ruddock L Lewis, Bent D Purity

Tucker, Holmes, Ruddock, Botha, Mercer and others miss out on the basis that they realistically did not beat the best one of best fighters of the era they fougth in. Some others who had some decent wins or draws had too many other losses against average fighters to be taken seriously. Jessie ferguson is one that crops up. Botha and Morrison both surprised me as to how their two records stack up.


I have never rated Douglas over Tyson for the decade before, but realistically, Douglas not only beat Tyson but his only loss was to the guy who beat Tyson (and Douglas had a better excuse, being in worse condition).

And here is the era that started the controversy. Shannon Briggs was the big winner.

Stop trolling your shit lists and threads.

[Rocky Balboa]

hey im british and im saying holyfield is the best

a prime holyfield beats lewis
a prime tyson destroys lewis

if rahman and mccall can knock out lewis with 1 punch both of these great champions (holy and mike) would do it aswell

hehehehe nobody destroys lewis... tyson avoided lewis for years... they trained together back in the day at some point and lewis was playing with tyson... so tyson never wanted any part of him

Do you honestly believe anyone "played" with Tyson? I have footage of Tyson sparring Carl Williams when Tyson was 15, and you can see Williams is the more experienced guy, but the speed, power & ferocity from Tyson is there & Williams is wary of it. Williams hits Tyson flush, and those shot don't seem to have an effect on Tyson.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Frans Botha played with Tyson.

[dan28uk]

1 lewis
2 bowe
3 holyfield
4 tyson

i can't put holyfield ahead of bowe losing twice to him and losing to michael moorer i know he avenged that but dont get me wrong i love the real deal he was lucky to get the draw with lewis as well.

[dan28uk]

I just lost a massive post setting out all the official wins and losses of the top contenders and dont have time to reproduce, but based purely on results here is a quick summary:

1. Riddick Bowe - (2-1 vs Holyfield) No other losses
2. Lennox Lewis - (1-0-1 vs Holyfield, 1-1 Draw McCall)
3. Evander Holyfield (W Tyson Drawn Moorer (1-1) Lost Bowe, Lewis)
4. Douglas - W Tyson L Holyfield (Beat Mcall late 1989 but it doesnt count and has a past prime comeback loss late in decade which shouldnt count)
5. Tyson - W Bruno, Ruddock L Holyfield, Douglas
6. Foreman - W Moorer, L Briggs
7. McCall - W Holmes Drew Lewis Lost Bruno, Tucker
8. Bruno - W McCall L Tyson, Lewis (no other losses)
9. Briggs - W Foreman L Lewis D Botha
10 Morrison - W Foreman, Ruddock L Lewis, Bent D Purity


Tucker, Holmes, Ruddock, Botha, Mercer and others miss out on the basis that they realistically did not beat the best one of best fighters of the era they fougth in. Some others who had some decent wins or draws had too many other losses against average fighters to be taken seriously. Jessie ferguson is one that crops up. Botha and Morrison both surprised me as to how their two records stack up.


I have never rated Douglas over Tyson for the decade before, but realistically, Douglas not only beat Tyson but his only loss was to the guy who beat Tyson (and Douglas had a better excuse, being in worse condition).

And here is the era that started the controversy. Shannon Briggs was the big winner.

riddick bowe avoided mike tyson and lennox lewis didnt he put the belt in the bin rather then face lewis?

[elmersalsa]

The best heavyweight of the 1990-2000 was the great Evander Holyfield. What heavyweight beat the very best of his era in that time frame?

He beat:
Buster Douglas
George Foreman
Mike Tyson
Riddick Bowe
Michael Moorer
Ray Mercer
Alex Stewart

Who can claim that quality of opposition. Lennox Lewis was good, but nothing to be awed about. He got whacked down and out against a goofy-goofy fighter like Oliver McCall...Please.

And I would have put my money on Holyfield if they would have fought earlier in the decade.

[Rocky Balboa]

Frans Botha played with Tyson.

I Meant when Tyson was a youngster? Who would have played with him in sparring? I doubt anyone.
Ask Frans Botha about that right hand that nailed him like he'd been shot! He didn't even see the punch coming... One shot, just like that... & that was all she wrote!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You asked a question and I answered it. Botha had his arms at his side and was giving Mike a lesson. Then Tyson tried to quit before he landed that haymaker. While his skills were obviously better in his prime, he still had a low ring IQ and when things weren't going his way he was forced to look for a bomb. Douglas beat the death out of a young and prime Tyson and Holyfield would have if Buster didn't.

[Goodnight, Irene]

You asked a question and I answered it. Botha had his arms at his side and was giving Mike a lesson. Then Tyson tried to quit before he landed that haymaker. While his skills were obviously better in his prime, he still had a low ring IQ and when things weren't going his way he was forced to look for a bomb. Douglas beat the death out of a young and prime Tyson and Holyfield would have if Buster didn't.

Im pretty sure if you ask any Tyson fan, they will correct you on Tyson being in his prime in 1990.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

LOL, there is no doubt about that. But even Rocky can't deny that he was young. Probably time to change his parameters again.

[Syntax Error]

I just lost a massive post setting out all the official wins and losses of the top contenders and dont have time to reproduce, but based purely on results here is a quick summary:

1. Riddick Bowe - (2-1 vs Holyfield) No other losses
2. Lennox Lewis - (1-0-1 vs Holyfield, 1-1 Draw McCall)
3. Evander Holyfield (W Tyson Drawn Moorer (1-1) Lost Bowe, Lewis)
4. Douglas - W Tyson L Holyfield (Beat Mcall late 1989 but it doesnt count and has a past prime comeback loss late in decade which shouldnt count)
5. Tyson - W Bruno, Ruddock L Holyfield, Douglas
6. Foreman - W Moorer, L Briggs
7. McCall - W Holmes Drew Lewis Lost Bruno, Tucker
8. Bruno - W McCall L Tyson, Lewis (no other losses)
9. Briggs - W Foreman L Lewis D Botha
10 Morrison - W Foreman, Ruddock L Lewis, Bent D Purity


Tucker, Holmes, Ruddock, Botha, Mercer and others miss out on the basis that they realistically did not beat the best one of best fighters of the era they fougth in. Some others who had some decent wins or draws had too many other losses against average fighters to be taken seriously. Jessie ferguson is one that crops up. Botha and Morrison both surprised me as to how their two records stack up.


I have never rated Douglas over Tyson for the decade before, but realistically, Douglas not only beat Tyson but his only loss was to the guy who beat Tyson (and Douglas had a better excuse, being in worse condition).

And here is the era that started the controversy. Shannon Briggs was the big winner.

riddick bowe avoided mike tyson and lennox lewis didnt he put the belt in the bin rather then face lewis?

He certainly avoided Lewis; of that, there is no doubt, but you can't really say that he avoided Tyson, because it wasn't possible for Bowe to face Tyson, if you look at the timeline.

Tyson was locked up in 1992 & didn't resurface in a boxing ring until 1995. By the time Bowe & Tyson could realistically have fought, it was 1996 & Bowe had been ruined by Golota & Tyson was busy mopping up his old titles against petrified Frank Bruno & diving Bruce Seldon.

Also bear in mind, Tyson was just about to have his ass handed to him by the supposed washed up Holyfied in late 1996, so there is no way that Tyson & Bowe could realistically have fought.