BoxRec

Terry D wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:

Terry D wrote: I think he'd bomb him out

Haye would bomb Wlad out or vice-versa? I'd unsurprisingly be backing Haye if it were to happen its a 'who lands first' fight, but I'd fancy Hayes chances

I really would fancy Haye. He'd be coming under Wlad's shots and Wlad holds a punch about as well as Kim Basinger in the movie 'Blind Date'.

Haye is slightly shorter than Wlad and WK seems less effective against slightly smaller guys who bring it to him. Wlad is a poorer Lewis right now and ripe for taking. I just see Haye's right getting there quicker.

He wins and he is going to get acclaim, well apart from in a certain newspaper column. A loss and he'll still get acclaim.

I really would fancy Haye in 2-3 rounds.

I think you're mental!

Wlad is WAY bigger than Haye. He's over 6' 6 for chrissake, and he's a lean 255 lber to boot.

A poor man's Lewis he certainly is, but he would hold huge physical advantages over Haye, who, lest we forget, normally held significant height and reach over his opponents.

Bonin was a small heavyweight don't forget, and Wlad has survived a battle with big natural heavyweight like Sam Peter.

I think Haye's handlers would be insane to put him in with Wlad, and I suspect it is likely to be a slow ponderous type like Peter or Rahman who Haye can use footwork and his long punching to contain.

Look at the guys who have beaten Wlad, you don't have to be big to beat him.

Brewster 225, Sanders 225. Williamson (didn't win but should have) 218.

wlad mullers haye.

as already stated, haye needs to fight the slow ponderous sort or the non punching slickster...

rahman and byrdd fit the bill perfectly i think.

Terry D wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Terry D wrote: I really would fancy Haye. He'd be coming under Wlad's shots and Wlad holds a punch about as well as Kim Basinger in the movie 'Blind Date'.

Haye is slightly shorter than Wlad and WK seems less effective against slightly smaller guys who bring it to him. Wlad is a poorer Lewis right now and ripe for taking. I just see Haye's right getting there quicker.

He wins and he is going to get acclaim, well apart from in a certain newspaper column. A loss and he'll still get acclaim.

I really would fancy Haye in 2-3 rounds.

I think you're mental!

Wlad is WAY bigger than Haye. He's over 6' 6 for chrissake, and he's a lean 255 lber to boot.

A poor man's Lewis he certainly is, but he would hold huge physical advantages over Haye, who, lest we forget, normally held significant height and reach over his opponents.

Bonin was a small heavyweight don't forget, and Wlad has survived a battle with big natural heavyweight like Sam Peter.

I think Haye's handlers would be insane to put him in with Wlad, and I suspect it is likely to be a slow ponderous type like Peter or Rahman who Haye can use footwork and his long punching to contain.

I just see it. Wlad gets flattened by smaller fighters and Haye can be as dynamic as Sanders was. I can just see Wlad getting sparked and looking bumused as f*ck, then blaming it on someone smoking a reefer outside the arena.

Not sure it'll be so simple!

Enzo always looks like he carrying weight to me.
He always looks loose around the gut. He is a funny shape as he looks thin on top with his loose belly. So I can't figure out whether he should be lighter or not. Either way he can't go to Heavy and Haye can't do the crusier thing so they should go their seperate ways.

David Haye is talented enough and hard hitting enough to beat ANY top 10 heavyweight. He is also vulnerable enough to get beaten off ANY top 10 heavyweight. That is what makes him so appealing. the fact he is as brave as lion and would fight any of them just adds to the package.

If I were gay it would be Haye all the way!

Sammy Mendelson wrote:David Haye is talented enough and hard hitting enough to beat ANY top 10 heavyweight. He is also vulnerable enough to get beaten off ANY top 10 heavyweight. That is what makes him so appealing. the fact he is as brave as lion and would fight any of them just adds to the package.

If I were gay it would be Haye all the way!

Cracking form this afternoon, Sammy son!

Seeing as he seems to have converted Sammy, perhaps Haye's new nickname should be.

'The gaymaker'

What about Holyfield?

As for Wlad that would be just plain crazy. Haye might possibly have a chance in that one but not until he has had a chance to acclimatise to the division. If they fought now it would be a quick win for Wlad IMO.

knockout wrote:Look at the guys who have beaten Wlad, you don't have to be big to beat him.

Brewster 225, Sanders 225. Williamson (didn't win but should have) 218.

Yes, but all true natural heavyweights, with a proper thicket heavyweights build and ability to absorb a shot.

With the exception of Sanders who just nuked Wlad, the others had to absorb quite a lot of punishment before getting their win (or near win).

Haye, lest we forget has been decked by a super middleweight, and though that was a long time ago, has yet to prove he can take the punch of even a moderately big punching heavyweight.

James!! I can't believe someone other than me remembers the Lolenga Mock fight!!

Hopefully Haye can keep himself out the way of those wild shots at the slower weight.

Old hardnuts like McCall or Holyfield would be fascinating imports. Could Haye actually make a DENT in either guy???

I'm well aware it was a temple shot Terrence me old china. Wlad is no less capable or likely to land a temple shot than anyone else, except that he is as heavy handed as a man with fists made from neutrons.

Some fighters seem to be more susceptible to temple shots than others, Herbie Hide always seemed to get felled by them, there is probably some neurological explanation to do with the concentration of nerve bundles in the temporal region.

I wish Haye every success as heavyweight, but I am somewhat taken aback that people seem to be annointing him as the future of the division and grossly overestimating the probability of him succeeding against the likes of Wlad, who is a much improved fighter since he learnt to hold on the inside to survive and pace himself better.

nickd wrote:What about Holyfield?

As for Wlad that would be just plain crazy. Haye might possibly have a chance in that one but not until he has had a chance to acclimatise to the division. If they fought now it would be a quick win for Wlad IMO.

Nick that's what I thought. First person that sprung to my mind when he said "people will think I'm mad" was Holyfield.

Mainly because when he says "people" I got the feeling he meant the General Public, and the only name MOST people will know in the UK other than the Klit brothers (who he's not ready for yet) is Holyfield (or maybe Rahman?).

Would certainly be a good name on his CV and nice to work his way up into the weight against a smaller Heavy. Evander might give him a long / tough work out too.

I hope you didn't scratch any of that lashing it together Terry.

overhand_right wrote:James!! I can't believe someone other than me remembers the Lolenga Mock fight!!

Everybody remembers the 'temple' shot from the Mock fight , followed by Hayes charge and rugby tackle. What an uppercut Haye finished it with though, allthough there was an argument it was an early stoppage.

Haye would have to starch Wlad early if he was going to get the win IMO, which would be a distinct possibility if the fight were to happen, I don't reckon Haye could stand up to Wlads ramrod power jab all night.

Wax On wrote: Nick that's what I thought. First person that sprung to my mind when he said "people will think I'm mad" was Holyfield.

Valuev falls into the "people will think I'm mad" category, I reckon its gonna be him on the 'David & Goliath' show

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'm well aware it was a temple shot Terrence me old china. Wlad is no less capable or likely to land a temple shot than anyone else, except that he is as heavy handed as a man with fists made from neutrons.

Some fighters seem to be more susceptible to temple shots than others, Herbie Hide always seemed to get felled by them, there is probably some neurological explanation to do with the concentration of nerve bundles in the temporal region.

I wish Haye every success as heavyweight, but I am somewhat taken aback that people seem to be annointing him as the future of the division and grossly overestimating the probability of him succeeding against the likes of Wlad, who is a much improved fighter since he learnt to hold on the inside to survive and pace himself better.

I think Haye can do some big things at heavyweight. His hands are very fast and he has some class lacking in many big men. Wlad may be irrelevant - he won't last forever, especially not with Alexander Povetkin in the IBF title race. I think Riddick Bowe, 1992-1995 version would have been worst for Haye because he leans on you and clubs you inside...Big Daddy imposed himself on opponents and relied on being naturally big/strong, which is curtains for any "manufactured heavyweight" (hence Holyfield's troouble and Hide's spanking). Wlad stands off and picks off slow-as-shit plodders with a basic, if accurate jab-jab-jab-right;whereas Haye has some of the speed and dynamism needed to offset some of these oafs. Not saying Haye would do it, but I think this upcoming era will be one where men of 5'11 to 6'2 will excell (Povetkin, Solis Fonte, Chambers, Chagaev if he's still around).

I'd like to see Haye build himself bit by bit into a formidable heavyweight, and his comments that he wants to be a contender and gun for titles in 2-3 yrs seems a nice long term plan. Who knows Wlad may be shot to pieces by then and an easy payday, we'll see. See a lot of potential in Haye, especially with that shotgun jab and willingness to go downstairs.

Also, let's see how Haye fares in "routine" heavyweight fights. His shaky moments may have been down to weight loss. Let's see how he fares over 12 rds vs a tough fighter, and then form new opinions, which could be entirely positive. I think Haye surprised everyone with how sharp and strong he looked vs Bonin.

But Haye was felled by a compact Cruiserweight. He fights well, has big shots and is brave and quick.

But he's vulnerable and needs some polish. Personally, I'd have gone for Vidoz next as a nice step up from Mormeck, or Holyfield if a big name was required.

Shorter, lighter heavyweights with styles not dissimilar to Mormeck for whom he just prepared extensively.

Going from Mormeck to Valuev strikes me as madness.

Cant believe people rate his win over Bonin.

Bonin was an inept lump with no credentials whatsoever. An irrelevent result compared to the guys in the top 10.

Haye's hands are not really that fast, I think his speed is overrated. He is a decent mover, and has good speed, but it's nothing exceptional for me. His timing is more impressive than his speed.

Mormeck found him pretty easy to hit, and is hardly nijinsky on his toes.

Time will tell anyhow.

I'm not going to wish ill on Haye in the hope I am proven right, but I do feel he is going to get found out at heavyweight when he steps up in class. His power looked impressive against Bonin, and it may be his get out of jail card, but he is going to get chinned at some point by a big raw boned heavyweight, and then I think we will see him come apart. No shame in that, as I think he lacks the natural big boned size of the genuine big men of this day and age.

If I am completely wrong, I will be happy to have Haye as a British Heavyweight champ and will get fully behind him.

What is without doubt is that Haye is a breath of fresh air for British boxing who is determined to challenge for all the beans and is not afraid of failure or success. His attitude is exemplary in that respect, and I applaud him for it wholeheartedly.

Chambers2 wrote:

Wax On wrote: Nick that's what I thought. First person that sprung to my mind when he said "people will think I'm mad" was Holyfield.

Valuev falls into the "people will think I'm mad" category, I reckon its gonna be him on the 'David & Goliath' show

Never thought about it that way! Good point. That would be a mad 'fight', Haye's uppercuts would be landing on Valuev's knees.

Haye doesn't like those compact little fighters who roll in with some skill. The man is much less effective punching down, whereas he seems to thrive punching up. He likes a to hit an upright fighter, as he did when he starched Gurov, a world class cruiser at the time.

Also, Haye habitually fights with the left hand low, so short fighters can time a right over the haye jab (Frago, Mormeck). Whereas against a taller foe, his low left helps set up a fast jab, helping him to beat ppl to the punch (something he has to do at heavyweight).

The win over Bonin was a good curio. It was a good diversion after the Mac fight fell apart and none of us knew how Haye would look. He looked fit and fast, the timing was nice and the performance can't be faulted. Exactly the statement he needed - at a time when Mac was just making up the numbers on Calzaghe undercards, by contrast. It got us interested and it made a case for Haye as a heavyweight, and made us want to see more without quite knowing what was going to happen.

Let's not write him off, eh. He's a world class fighter and if he carries the weight well in long-ish fights we have something to hope for.


It may not be an era for the giants pretty soon. I think skill, speed and workrate is going to take over the division. Giants will fall hard and we'll see classy smaller fighters. If Chagaev can outbox a 7 foot beast like Valuev, then that just goes to show where skill, toughness and savvy will take you. GOOD fighters are coming through - Haye, Povetkin, Chambers, Solis - and some will make a real mark.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Haye's hands are not really that fast, I think his speed is overrated. He is a decent mover, and has good speed, but it's nothing exceptional for me.

This is BANG on what I was gonna say.

In fact the whole post is in general accordance with what I was going to say.

Southpaw Stylist wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Haye's hands are not really that fast, I think his speed is overrated. He is a decent mover, and has good speed, but it's nothing exceptional for me.

This is BANG on what I was gonna say.

In fact the whole post is in general accordance with what I was going to say.

you sound just like Chris Eubank!

Autobarn wrote:

Southpaw Stylist wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Haye's hands are not really that fast, I think his speed is overrated. He is a decent mover, and has good speed, but it's nothing exceptional for me.

This is BANG on what I was gonna say.

In fact the whole post is in general accordance with what I was going to say.

you sound just like Chris Eubank!

Haha.

Please don't inflict that upon me.