BoxRec

BoxBuzz wrote:Alexandru Manea

I couldn't help but laugh when I read this

Tyson went to jail. The Tyson of the Ruddock fights would have been competitive with anyone in the nineties. I think jail ruined him more than the loss to Douglas.

Naseem Hamed. No way back for him

To a certain extent, Greg Page.

Samart Payakaroon.

Looked to be a very promising pro. Was probably one of the best amateur fighters ever. Won his pro debut against a 40-fight veteran ( ). Beat Lupe Pintor for the title in about his 12th fight (knocking him out with one punch), and defended it successfully against Juan Meza. Then, he ran into Jeff Fenech, who tore him to shreds. Payakaroon disappeared for a while, then he made a comeback in the early '90s and made one last run at a title. He won a few fights, lost to Eloy Rojas in a title shot, and then retired.


Has anyone mentioned Meldrick Taylor?

Heck, maybe a case could be made for Julio Cesar Chavez?

joe kurtz wrote:That's always been the big question with me as far as Cooney's career is considered ...

Did Holmes ruin him with that 13 round beat down, which paved the way for the Spinks & Foreman blow outs that followed? Or was Gerry's chin always a liability waiting to be taken advantage of?

I think Holmes definitely "softened him up" for everyone else.
I have to believe that if Cooney were as fragile as he appeared post-Holmes, then there'd be no way he'd have gone into the 13th round with Larry that night in '82. Holmes was far from being a devastating puncher, but I think he was a bit better of a banger than most give him credit for these days. And, were Cooney's beard as bad as what we witnessed post-Holmes, then Larry'd have gotten rid of him a lot sooner than he did.

What do the rest of you gentleman think?

I remember seeing Cooney at Gleason's when he was making the comeback that ended with the Spinks fight. At first, my impression was, hey, Gerry Cooney! He was talking to Teddy Atlas, stooping the way taller people sometimes do when speaking to someone shorter. Cooney was joking and goofing like a big kid. Atlas was just nodding and smiling politely. I remember thinking, Cooney's finished. I'm not saying that fighters can't joke when they're in camp. But he just seemed like a big, needy man-child who didn't have that hunger that a fighter needs.

Check out this article on Cooney from the Sports Illustrated archives. It speaks volumes about him:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

Cooney didn't have the heart to be a killer. He was trying to be a boxer because it was everybody's else's dream for him, beginning with his late father, who was very dominating and punitive. When Cooney lost to Holmes, he went into a major depression. He felt he needed to apologize for losing. (Larry Holmes on the need to apologize to bloodthirsty fans for losing: "Kiss my ass.") His managers, the Wacko Twins, didn't help. As Cooney was being belted out in the 13th, they yelled at him to "Do it for the kids with leukemia...Do it for your fans..." Everybody except, as the S.I. article above says, for himself.

After the Holmes' loss, when Cooney went into a major depression beginning right at the postfight news conference. Holmes reappeared to tell Cooney he had nothing to be ashamed of. Which was true. A lot of people thought this was going to be Norton-Bobick II. When Cooney got decked in the second round, he got up and made a fight of it. Just couldn't land the big one. Then he lost and went into a major funk.

Shortly after Holmes fight, Madison Square Garden offered Cooney a million dollars to fight Renaldo Snipes. Cooney turned them down. That's when I knew new that he wasn't the real deal. Nothing but a rematch with Holmes would do. The problem was, the Holmes fight proved that Cooney was a big, hard-hitting heavyweight who could take a punch. It also showed that he was woefully inexperienced and, among other things, had never learned to fight backing up. Let's face it, this guy could punch. That left hook was one of the best the division will ever see. But he had a lot to learn about ringcraft. A fight with Snipes have been an excellent learning experience for Cooney. Back then, he probably could have beaten Snipes and then sent Spinks into next week.

IF Cooney had been serious about fighting.

But he took the loss to Holmes as though he'd let the whole world down. And, apparently, he was self-medicating to get over it, not a prescription for a boxer who would be champion. Cooney had a problem with alcohol during his fighting years.

Then there were all those millions he earned, chiefly for fighting Holmes. Hard to stay lean, mean, and hungry when you'll never be hungry again if you never work another day in your life.

Cooney has been sober since 1988. He has an organization, F.I.S.T., that provides support services for former fighters down on their luck.

It's just one of life's flukes that such formidable physical gifts were given to a Gerry Cooney instead of, say, a Jerry Quarry or a George Chuvalo. Imagine the gladiatorial toughness and combativeness of a Quarry or Chuvalo inside the body of the young, still-promising Gerry Cooney.

What might have been...

Cooney lost to anyone who hit him back.

Even pathetic Michael Spinks.

Cooney was a New York media creation.

The Wacko Twins ruined Cooney's career. He never learned to hit a moving target, and they backed out of so many fights that could have helped him gain experience, Snipes, Weaver, Lucien Rodriguez or Alfredo Evangelista, and James "Quick" Tillis. In fact when the Tillis v Cooney fight fell through, Tillis said in an interview that Gerry Cooney is going to fight Ingemar Johansson next.

My impressions of Cooney..and this is just from his interviews etc
is that he is some one who was in it for others.

Its hard to maintain momentum and 'fire' when you really dont love
what you are doing.

no one is perfect and Cooney was certainly not that...its hard to punch
back when you have that hard freight train of a left hook slamming into
you.
thomconn

thanks for that story.

Matthew Hilton

granberry wrote:Cooney lost to anyone who hit him back.

Even pathetic Michael Spinks.

Cooney was a New York media creation.

A couple of months ago you argued that Cooney vs Jimmy Young was a fix. I asked you if it was a fix, why would Young stand there and run the risk of losing his eye from the severe cuts that Cooney gave him and you backed away.

Are you ever going to explain how it was a fix?

Johnny Bumphus. He was all the shit in the early 1980s, 21-0, won the WBA jr. light but got exposed in the process when was knocked down by light-hitting Lorenzo Luis Garcia. Was way ahead in his first defense against Gene Hatcher when he got ko'd in the 11th. Fought on for a few more years but looked like a shell when Honeyghan gave him a title shot and ko'd him in 2

Robin Blake, Mac Foster.

Jeff Lacy

Kelly Pavlik
Jermaine Taylor
Meldrick Taylor
Kermit Cintron
Arthur Abraham

Many of these guys didn't really go off track. They just didn't fight that of competition early on, then they started fighting good competition and starting to lose.

David Bey is the heavyweight king of fighters who didn't get back on track.

What on earth went wrong with him? The man of the Page and Berbick fights was as different as day and night.

The Croatian Heavyweight Zeljko Maurovic.

Mavrovic suffered serious illness and was unable to box again.

Gil Turner. What a brilliant fighter until he got brutalized by the great Kid Gavilan and that damn referee.

Philip Holiday. Hard-charging lightweight turned journeyman overnight following loss to Shane.

couple of mexicans I would put in there

Alfonso Zamora
Pipino Cuevas

Davey Moore was never the same after Duran

Also Errol Christie from the uk

You have to be careful with this "never as good after the first loss" as it can often be a case of just never being as good as people thought and being found out. A lot can also depend on the manner of the loss.

I also feel that experiences such as weight making can leave scars. I think that is what happened with Don Curry, and I dont think Gavin has been the same since his weightmaking nightmare back from the Olympics.

Barry McGuigan

Jeff Lacy

gil turner is a great shout