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Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 10:14
by Max Molyneux
Since when does Skelton have a spare tyre? Does every boxer have to looked ripped?
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 10:17
by observer1
Max Molyneux wrote:Since when does Skelton have a spare tyre? Does every boxer have to looked ripped?
good Point, Boxing is not just about who can throw the Hardest Punch..
But Compared to the earlier fighters, i.e. Tyson, Holyfiled, Lewis, Ali, Frazier, [Early] Foreman etc. TO name a FEW,
These were the best of the best, and well, they did look like they were not carrying any excess fat.
Skelton did look a bit on the Chunky Side,
if u understand my point
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 10:19
by MightyWarrior
jomothepure wrote:Fight with Dimitrenko fairly soon now I'd have thought. Sascha's turned down a fight with Krasniqi, but he needs to fight someone to win the belt
Sascha is the perfect opponent for Haye, a high ranking and a china chin.
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 10:22
by Max Molyneux
It was excess though, he just looked lean.
Ripped fighters don't always have the best fitness. Foreman was ripped but his stamina wasn't the best In his early days.
Ali had to hold alot In the 70s too even when he had a good looking body.
Conditioning doesn't Increase skill/tatics.
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 10:30
by overhand_right
nickd wrote:Haye shouldn't waste time against the domestic Heavies IMO. If he beats Enzo to become pretty much undisputed at Cruiser why would he not just compete in world class at Heavy?
You still seem to be stuck in the 'our british heavies are crap and strictly domestic' frame of mind.
Chagaev could well be the #1 in the world. Do you honestly think Haye should just jump in with Chags, Klitschko etc?
Or maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to gain experience against a big strong guy who just went 12 with one of the top guys in the world?
Plus they're both British.
Make any sense yet?
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 11:25
by Goz
overhand_right wrote:nickd wrote:Haye shouldn't waste time against the domestic Heavies IMO. If he beats Enzo to become pretty much undisputed at Cruiser why would he not just compete in world class at Heavy?
You still seem to be stuck in the 'our british heavies are crap and strictly domestic' frame of mind.
Chagaev could well be the #1 in the world. Do you honestly think Haye should just jump in with Chags, Klitschko etc?
Or maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to gain experience against a big strong guy who just went 12 with one of the top guys in the world?
Plus they're both British.
Make any sense yet?
Not really.
The top man at world level at Cruiser doesn't generally faff about - he jumps straight in with the biggest fish. See Holyfield, Moorer, Toney for examples of this.
Not saying a fight with Skelton would have nothing to offer Haye, just that by establishing himself as the best Cruiserweight in the world he can jump straight in with an ordinary bunch of Heavyweight champs.
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 11:27
by Max Molyneux
Haye doesnt have Holy and Toney's granite chin though.
More skill than Holy did though, Holy lacked head movement.
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 11:44
by Goz
Anything Haye may come up short when being compared to Holyfield is surely more than compensated by the fact that when Haye does step up he will not be attempting to mix it with Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis!
I wasn't comparing Haye to Holy anyway, well I was comparing them moving up from Cruiser to Heavy but not their respective attributes against each other.
Holyfield would wipe the floor with Haye.
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 11:52
by jomothepure
MightyWarrior wrote:jomothepure wrote:Fight with Dimitrenko fairly soon now I'd have thought. Sascha's turned down a fight with Krasniqi, but he needs to fight someone to win the belt
Sascha is the perfect opponent for Haye, a high ranking and a china chin.
Very true. It's also (sadly) true that there's about as much chance of Kohl letting Haye near Dimitrenko as there is Matt Skelton being crowned Miss Bedford 2008.
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 11:55
by The Blade
Goz wrote:overhand_right wrote:nickd wrote:Haye shouldn't waste time against the domestic Heavies IMO. If he beats Enzo to become pretty much undisputed at Cruiser why would he not just compete in world class at Heavy?
You still seem to be stuck in the 'our british heavies are crap and strictly domestic' frame of mind.
Chagaev could well be the #1 in the world. Do you honestly think Haye should just jump in with Chags, Klitschko etc?
Or maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to gain experience against a big
strong guy who just went 12 with one of the top guys in the world?
Plus they're both British.
Make any sense yet?
Correct. That Chag left hook on Haye would be interesting (if not career ending). I personally would rather see him fighting Matt that a fossil like McCall or Rahman who makes Skelton look like Mahatma Gandhi nowadays when it comes to conditioning. If he comes through that, then he gets all the country behind him with no quibbles. Rather like we would all logically like to see Khan and Thaxton or, for that matter, Hatton and Witter. One good thing you can say about Haye is that he is not ducking challenges, and he deserves support for that reason alone.
Not really.
The top man at world level at Cruiser doesn't generally faff about - he jumps straight in with the biggest fish. See Holyfield, Moorer, Toney for examples of this.
Not saying a fight with Skelton would have nothing to offer Haye, just that by establishing himself as the best Cruiserweight in the world he can jump straight in with an ordinary bunch of Heavyweight champs.
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 13:35
by overhand_right
Goz wrote:
The top man at world level at Cruiser doesn't generally faff about - he jumps straight in with the biggest fish. See Holyfield, Moorer, Toney for examples of this.
.
Dear oh dear, where to begin with this tripe?
Holyfield started off with the likes of Quick Tillis (shot) and Pinky Thomas (very shot). Do you think these guys -at that point- are better than Skelton?
Moorer started @ heavy whacking clubfighters like Terry Davis and Bobby Crabtree!! Better than Skelton??
Toney really set the world on fire with his heavyweight debut- a 1998 8th rd TKO of someone called Terry Porter. A mere 5 years later he moved up to Holyfield!!!
Posted: 21 Jan 2008, 18:28
by Goz
overhand_right wrote:Goz wrote:
The top man at world level at Cruiser doesn't generally faff about - he jumps straight in with the biggest fish. See Holyfield, Moorer, Toney for examples of this.
.
Dear oh dear, where to begin with this tripe?
Holyfield started off with the likes of Quick Tillis (shot) and Pinky Thomas (very shot). Do you think these guys -at that point- are better than Skelton?
Moorer started @ heavy whacking clubfighters like Terry Davis and Bobby Crabtree!! Better than Skelton??
Toney really set the world on fire with his heavyweight debut- a 1998 8th rd TKO of someone called Terry Porter. A mere 5 years later he moved up to Holyfield!!!
Oh dear - someone trawling through boxrec records to uphold an argument they don't have much real knowledge of.
Yes Tillis was probably better than Skelton is now and Pinklon Thomas was coming off a loss to umm.. oh a peak Mike Tyson. Yes very shot that smartarse.
Moorer I'll give you, I'd forgotten he took on a few anonymous opponents at the start of his heavyweight campaign but as for Toney, you've just pulled out an opponent he took on when he was eating a 100 cakes a day and not really takign it seriously. I was thinking post-Jirov, he went on to Holyfield then Ruiz.
After he beat Jirov he was the
top man at Cruiser which is what I said
and you quoted.
I'd suggest the current forum if you are spoiling for some smack talk and bitching.
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 12:22
by overhand_right
I dont need to trawl the records because im a big fan of Holyfield, Moorer and Toney and have followed em for donkeys so very familiar with their careers and have all their fights on tape, so knew you were wrong.
Tillis had been bashed up by novice Mike Williams and laid out by DuPlooy, smashed up by Bruno, outpointed by Bugner, he was well past it and unranked for many years. Not better than Skelton by a long yard. Neither was Thomas, who you miss out was coming off about a 16 month layoff since Tyson marmalised him and looked completely frickin shot.
If you want to ignore Toneys initial heavyweight debut and feel after Jirov going in with a 40 yr old Holyfield coming off the Byrd loss qualified as 'the biggest fish', thats fair enough. You're wrong but fair dos.
Matt Skelton= a big step up from Tomas Bonin.
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 13:08
by Goz
Opinions are like arseholes.
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 13:11
by nickd
Goz wrote:Opinions are like arseholes.
Brown and smelly?
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 17:02
by Goz
nickd wrote:Goz wrote:Opinions are like arseholes.
Brown and smelly?
Well yes that too.
But also, everybody has one.
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 17:10
by nickd
Goz wrote:nickd wrote:Goz wrote:Opinions are like arseholes.
Brown and smelly?
Well yes that too.
But also, everybody has one.
True.
COME ON YOU YIDS! ;)
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 17:40
by steve689
Why did Dimitrenko pull out against Krasniqi?