BoxRec

Jaybee From The Castle wrote:Sentiment?

If all you have is sentimentality, you should not be a member of a Boxing website. Try Crochet. Much less prone to getting your feelings hurt when your delusions are shattered.

Sadly Marciano most likely had a link or something to that degree with the 'mob'. Id say it orbitted around by naturally because of his position and ethnicity. I do however doubt that his entire career was a Mob plot to control boxing via him.

His fights for the most part where very real and legitimate. He may have won some decisions that others could argue against, but this would make him no different to any other champion.

Sadly however we do not have access to the film of the full fights to make our own decisions.

Jaybee..Im Australian so I am pretty naive when it comes to the dark tendrils of American organised crime. Im curious to know more about the mob links and Marciano. I have always heard this or that, but could you elaborate please.

Kym

"...but could you elaborate please..." - Robinson

No, he couldn't.

Someone deleted my comment that I had posted!

I said to Collins, that my remarks that I made earlier were not entirely pointed in his direction, but to the whole lot in general. Again, am sorry if any one person felt my remarks were solely directed at them, I was meaning as a whole, I felt people were being too harsh on Frazier.

HomicideHenry wrote:Someone deleted my comment that I had posted!

I said to Collins, that my remarks that I made earlier were not entirely pointed in his direction, but to the whole lot in general. Again, am sorry if any one person felt my remarks were solely directed at them, I was meaning as a whole, I felt people were being too harsh on Frazier.

Quit apologizing, it makes you look like a.....well.......pansy

Rocky Marciano would be in for a short and painful night. Tyson will beat him from pillar to post and stop him in a hurry.

"Quit apologizing, it makes you look like a.....well.......pansy " - Ringsider



Quit talking, it makes you look ignorant. Shit, wait...

ringsider wrote:
Tyson was too fast and strong, and a great finisher in his hey day. Marciano would never know what hit him. He would never even get into the fight and it would be over. Tyson was bigger, stronger, and quicker.

Exactly right. Same goes for a bout versus Dempsey. Both the Rock and Jack D. would be competing as Cruisers these days.

Another stupid topic for comparision toe to toe two sportmens from different ages. I don't know exactly, much possible Tyson, but what does it mean? Nothing.
Sport is first of all showing of heart.
Tyson or future 2030 undispted heavyweight champion?

Rocky Marciano is the greatest.

49-0

Valuev is 48-1; is he second greatest?


Oh yeah, Tyson by destruction over Marciano in one. Tyson is much stronger, way way faster, has a better chin, is tougher, a better combination puncher, and wont have to try hard to find the Rock. The fight would be over long before Marciano's "heart" advantage could come into effect. Same goes for Dempsey.

actjac wrote:

ringsider wrote:
Tyson was too fast and strong, and a great finisher in his hey day. Marciano would never know what hit him. He would never even get into the fight and it would be over. Tyson was bigger, stronger, and quicker.

Exactly right. Same goes for a bout versus Dempsey. Both the Rock and Jack D. would be competing as Cruisers these days.

So would have Holyfield if not for the wonders of modern weight gaining 'programs'... Tyson got spanked twice by a pumped up cruiser... Rocky and Jack have to have a chance.

Very simple and unmeaning question. I'm suppose you knows the answer very well.

Valuev is not 48-1 world champion. He is never been boxing heavyweight world chmpion.
He is 48-1-0-1 former WBA champion. That's way he is not second the greatest.
Second the greatest is Joe Louis. For example in the time of his 49'th fight he was 48-1.

Robinson wrote: Jaybee..Im Australian so I am pretty naive when it comes to the dark tendrils of American organised crime. Im curious to know more about the mob links and Marciano. I have always heard this or that, but could you elaborate please.

Kym

Robinson, I understand that Australia, although completely surrounded by the Indian and Pacific oceans, also now has telecommunications with the rest of the world. I'm sure these links were very costly to implement, and that your government is desperate for it's citizens to..."broaden their minds" by speaking freely with other members of the Western world and availing themselves of the newly-accessible repositories of information. While the initial signs of hordes of your more lucid countrymen googling first for banjo music are not promising, I feel that any first step in the right direction is truly golden.

On a side note, I am indeed delighted that, in addition to container-loads of Foster's we in Europe have enjoyed for decades, we are now receiving reports that the Paul Hogan show has become...embarrassing for your people. This shame is not to be dwelt upon, but rather you should hold it up with your recent abolition of inbreeding as markers in the recent success of the great nation of Down Under in its reform program.

And speaking of nationalities, I'm glad to report that I, myself, am of British upbringing and French residence. Another great obstacle to my research into Marciano's obsidian history, that I am proud to have overcome, was the fact that I was also born within months, not years, of his death, and as such I, like you, had no access to real-time, face to face experiences to Marciano's extensive dealings with the Mob in America. However, I didn't use either as a screen to feign and/or maintain current ignorance about it, and I conducted my own research. Please do likewise, now that our engineers have given you telecommunicative facilities and our genetic specialists corrective dna reconfigurations to develop digits compatible with a standard QWERTY keyboard.

G'day, cobb,

:)


Jaybee.

A Tyson in his prime ( 1988-1991 ) would easily destroy a plodding, face-first brawler like Marciano.

I just have never got the aura about Rocky. I watch his fights and never really see anything of greatness. Maybe he had a great chin, and alot of heart. But come on, the stiffs he mainly fought thru out his career..... Ugh!!!!

Tyson at 215 lbs and Marciano at 188 lbs...... a no brainer. Probably a stoppage by the referee in the 3rd or 4th round, after Rocky eats way too many upper cuts and Bolo-shots from Mikey. I can even see Rocky going down from a brutal shot to the midsection by Tyson. Rocky would be "game", but he'd be right there for Mikey to pound on, over and over.....

HeavyHitters wrote:A Tyson in his print ( 1988-1991 ) would easily destroya plodding, face-first brawler like Marciano.

I just have never got the aura about Rocky. I watch his fights and never really see anything of greatness. Maybe he had a great chin, and alot of heart. But come on, the stiffs he mainly fought thru out his career..... Ugh!!!!

Tyson at 215 lbs and Marciano at 188 lbs...... a no brainer. Probably a stoppage by the referee in the 3rd or 4th round, after Rocky eats way too many upper cuts and Bolo-shots from Mikey. I can even see Rocky going down from a brutal shot to the midsection by Tyson. Rocky would be "game", but he'd be right there for Mikey to pound on, over and over.....

I see it very similarly, though I think Marciano would catch and wobble Tyson a little too but would soon be overwhelmed how you explained.

Someone posted that Marciano and Dempsey would be Cruisers if they fought today...

With the modern day before weigh-ins, smaller heavyweights like Marciano and Dempsey would be Light Heavyweights or maybe even Super Middleweights. Calzaghee and Hopkins probably fight in the 180s by fight time after making 168 24-36 hours prior to the fight. Remember, cutting weight is not cutting real size and muscle, it is drying out, then rehydrating before the fight. Almost any heavyweight champion in history with the exceptions of the giants like Carnera, Willard, the Klitschkos, etc. could make Cruiserweight with the contemporary day before weigh-in.

John Galt wrote:Someone posted that Marciano and Dempsey would be Cruisers if they fought today...

With the modern day before weigh-ins, smaller heavyweights like Marciano and Dempsey would be Light Heavyweights or maybe even Super Middleweights. Calzaghee and Hopkins probably fight in the 180s by fight time after making 168 24-36 hours prior to the fight. Remember, cutting weight is not cutting real size and muscle, it is drying out, then rehydrating before the fight. Almost any heavyweight champion in history with the exceptions of the giants like Carnera, Willard, the Klitschkos, etc. could make Cruiserweight with the contemporary day before weigh-in.

IDK about being Super Middleweights for Marciano or Dempsey. Light Heavyweight maybe simply because Marciano weighed in mostly between 180-190 lbs... Dempsey might've had a little more trouble making 175 since he tended to be on the higher end of the 180's into the 190's and up to 200. Possible for either though considering Joan Guzman can go from 130-148 overnight.

Jaybee

I thought you may have inside knowledge or first hand experience, but instead you have the same information as I do. Net related and he said she said type of deals found in esoteric corners.

Though unlike me, you have chosen to find facts from some sources, and build an opionion on this. I however am aware of these claims, allegations and the likes but have yet to have them greatly confirmed.

I am glad you enjoy the exports mate.

Take care.
Kym

Like I said, he can't elaborate. He'll try to muddy the waters, stretch out his response, throw some sand in your eyes, even take a stab at insulting your nationality...when it comes to Jaybee, anything to disguise his hapless lack of knowledge & inability to answer your question

And he can't make damper 'alf good eh Bluey....

Tyson goes 49 and 0 against Marciano competition. He beats Marciano easy. This is a heavweight power puncher with speed and weight advantages.

Klee,
And future 2030 champ can be 50-0/44/ if meat boxers from 1980's.

Tyson is one of the grteatest boxers and can beat Marciano from 40's and 50's, but he is not on the same level of greatnes as Marciano. Tyson was beaten in his 'prime', in his comeback and in his old ages.

49-0/43/

Jaybee From The Castle wrote:

Robinson wrote: Jaybee..Im Australian so I am pretty naive when it comes to the dark tendrils of American organised crime. Im curious to know more about the mob links and Marciano. I have always heard this or that, but could you elaborate please.

Kym

Robinson, I understand that Australia, although completely surrounded by the Indian and Pacific oceans, also now has telecommunications with the rest of the world. I'm sure these links were very costly to implement, and that your government is desperate for it's citizens to..."broaden their minds" by speaking freely with other members of the Western world and availing themselves of the newly-accessible repositories of information. While the initial signs of hordes of your more lucid countrymen googling first for banjo music are not promising, I feel that any first step in the right direction is truly golden.

On a side note, I am indeed delighted that, in addition to container-loads of Foster's we in Europe have enjoyed for decades, we are now receiving reports that the Paul Hogan show has become...embarrassing for your people. This shame is not to be dwelt upon, but rather you should hold it up with your recent abolition of inbreeding as markers in the recent success of the great nation of Down Under in its reform program.

And speaking of nationalities, I'm glad to report that I, myself, am of British upbringing and French residence. Another great obstacle to my research into Marciano's obsidian history, that I am proud to have overcome, was the fact that I was also born within months, not years, of his death, and as such I, like you, had no access to real-time, face to face experiences to Marciano's extensive dealings with the Mob in America. However, I didn't use either as a screen to feign and/or maintain current ignorance about it, and I conducted my own research. Please do likewise, now that our engineers have given you telecommunicative facilities and our genetic specialists corrective dna reconfigurations to develop digits compatible with a standard QWERTY keyboard.

G'day, cobb,

:)


Jaybee.

Jaybee, your words collectively are a joke. You're the one making unsupported and inflammatory statements here. If you wish to be taken at all seriously, it's your responsibility to back them up. I challenge you to point me and the rest of us to some reputable source for your heretofore frivolous and disgusting claims. It is not mine nor Cobb's responsibility to convince ourselves of your drivel as if it had some inherent credibility. If you're going to make claims that our experiences and any neutral analysis we've ever heard makes us confident are false, the onus is on you to convince us otherwise. Thus far, you have given nobody on this site aside from ringsider, apparently, any reason to see you as anything but an irresponsible and vindictive character assassin and probable bigot.

Ouch.

I won't comment on any of the Marciano fights I haven't seen, but none of them that I have indicate to me a fix, besides Walcott who probably took a dive in their rematch. Savold, Louis, Matthews, Walcott I, Charles I, Charles II, LaStarza II, Cockell, Moore are all clearly legitimate in my opinion, along with a few other smaller fights of his that I've seen. Outside of that, who knows, but I don't think its fair to say his major fights were fixes.

Still, again, I think Tyson beats him.

Well if Walcott took a dive, he was a good actor. He seemed pretty outraged when the ref counted him out. I think there's pretty good reason to believe he was just a shot fighter at that point. He was on the wrong end of one of the most brutal knockout punches in history in their previous meeting, and not too many fighters look great ever again (much less in their next bout) after something like that. Add to that the fact that he was a year older than the already old champ he was the first time, and I think we got a fairly predictable result legitimately.