BoxRec

Rocky Balboa wrote:

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:I'm the opposite and think he will face the winner of Cotto v Margarito. DLH has never shirked from a challenge. Just look at his record.[/quote

I also think Oscar will face the winner of Cotto-Margarito. I think De La Hoya will be hoping Cotto is victorious because De La Hoya-Cotto would be a massive, mega fight. Could even be held in Puerto Rico, although Las Vegas is the most likely location.

Oscar has not backed away from a challenge during his career, but in saying that, every fighter would like to go out with a win, so he might decide to take on a easier option & still make big money.

If we did see Cotto/Margarito-De La Hoya what weight would it be at? Welter, LM, or a catchweight like it was for Forbes-De La Hoya?

I don't think Oscar can ever get down to 147 again without amputating something so it will have to be at atleast 150. However, he struggled with that in May and even then there were rumours of the scales being fixed.

stujones wrote:

Autobarn wrote: No. It's just that he has lost most of his big fights. Even though he usually went in with the advantage.

Trinidad.
Mosley 1.
Mosley 2.
Hopkins.
Mayweather.

OK 2 of those were controversial. But I am convinced that Quartey and Sturm beat him.

I'm just not a big DLH fan. He has always been able to dictate terms for the big fights, yet often loses despite coming in with serious advantages.

My explanation is that he weakened himself too much making 130 and 135. He even looked too big for 140. Spent too long boiling down the weight. When he went into the biggest fights at welter and above, he just didn't have the gas in him for a lot of these fights. IMO the years of weight draining may have spoiled him physically for the big ones, making him an 8-round fighter.

So what were the advantages? Okay the Mayweather fight was at 154 and I believe the Hopkins fight was at a stipulated weight (fair cop on that one) - but the Mayweather fight was a WBC title defence.

And 3 of these were controvesial.... many thought he beat Mayweather.

And what about the big fights, that he won, in which he was the one giving away natural size (Vargas, Whittikar etc).

Whitaker is naturally smaller than DLH - a lightweight/light welter who used his skills to win at higher weights - who was MUCH older and slowing down. Vargas naturally bigger but had already been demolished by Trinidad. Getting the pint sized Floyd to come up to 154-pounds!

Mosley coming up from lightweight and an ordinary win at light welter, debuting at welter for fight 1. Mosley hadn't won in 3 fights before the rematch.

Quartey had been off for ages, due to serious injury.

etc etc etc. always the same.

Anyone would go for these kind of advantages if they had DLH's phenomenal pulling power. But sadly he didn't deliver many sensational performances when it was all there for him.

Reversing that theory, DLH fought a bigger Sturm and Hopkins. Essentially you can pick apart any fighters career record. It's easy. The fact is that Oscar has never ducked a fight with anyone and fought virtually everyone he could. We all sit here and slag off this fighters that duck this and that boxer, but Oscar was one of a kind in the modern game; a fighter that's willing to risk it all.

Pavlik may turn out to be cut from the same cloth. Only time will tell.

I even gave DLH an excuse for his 8-round performances. If I'm not being fair I don't know what is.

He drained his natural welterweight body making 130, 135, and 140 all those years. That's IMO why he seldom would put in a full 12 rds. He was the biggest sized super feather in history (what other super feather ended up at light middle?)

He may have put it all on the line but he had SERIOUS handicapping on his side. Even Hopkins was almost 40, had come in at some sort of catchweight (aka OscarWeight) being 2 or 3 lbs under the middleweight limit and bone dry to boot. This was another advantage that DLH couldn't capitalise on.

I'd rather see what he can do as a promoter. He's signed lots of exciting fighters and made some intriguing partnerships (Hayemaker, Arena Box).

Autobarn wrote:what other super feather ended up at light middle?

Floyd Mayweather Jr

By your theory then, Hearns is naturally bigger than Hagler? Whittikar was a Lightweight when he started his career - DLH was a Super Feather. Sorry, I don't see how Whittikar can be considered the smaller man - just cause DLH would move up to Light Middle eventually, doesn't mean that many considered his best weight at Lightweight himself.

Vargas was so shot he would GO ON to beat up Castelejo who is still in the world title mix.

What other Super Feather has ended up a Light Middle.... umm Floyd Mayweather!

So it great achievment that Mosley moved up to fight and beat DLH - but not so for DLH to move up to fight Whittikar/Chavez etc - because apparently he was the naturally bigger man.

DLH cannot help the date of birth of Whittikar/Chavez. Yes, both on the tail end of the career - but both universally considered the #1 in the devision when DLH fought them.

banjo wrote:

Autobarn wrote:what other super feather ended up at light middle?

Floyd Mayweather Jr

Yes, and he was not considered a big Super Feather either.

Autobarn wrote:

stujones wrote:

Autobarn wrote: No. It's just that he has lost most of his big fights. Even though he usually went in with the advantage.

Trinidad.
Mosley 1.
Mosley 2.
Hopkins.
Mayweather.

OK 2 of those were controversial. But I am convinced that Quartey and Sturm beat him.

I'm just not a big DLH fan. He has always been able to dictate terms for the big fights, yet often loses despite coming in with serious advantages.

My explanation is that he weakened himself too much making 130 and 135. He even looked too big for 140. Spent too long boiling down the weight. When he went into the biggest fights at welter and above, he just didn't have the gas in him for a lot of these fights. IMO the years of weight draining may have spoiled him physically for the big ones, making him an 8-round fighter.

So what were the advantages? Okay the Mayweather fight was at 154 and I believe the Hopkins fight was at a stipulated weight (fair cop on that one) - but the Mayweather fight was a WBC title defence.

And 3 of these were controvesial.... many thought he beat Mayweather.

And what about the big fights, that he won, in which he was the one giving away natural size (Vargas, Whittikar etc).

Whitaker is naturally smaller than DLH - a lightweight/light welter who used his skills to win at higher weights - who was MUCH older and slowing down. Vargas naturally bigger but had already been demolished by Trinidad. Getting the pint sized Floyd to come up to 154-pounds!

Mosley coming up from lightweight and an ordinary win at light welter, debuting at welter for fight 1. Mosley hadn't won in 3 fights before the rematch.

Quartey had been off for ages, due to serious injury.

etc etc etc. always the same.

Anyone would go for these kind of advantages if they had DLH's phenomenal pulling power. But sadly he didn't deliver many sensational performances when it was all there for him.

How is Floyd pint sized?

He is 5' 10" and looked solid at 147 and 154, which is more than can be said for the likes of Whittaker who was fleshy above 135.

Oscar was a boiled down 140 lber early in his career, and is a bulked up 147 lber now. He has bulked out as he has gotten older, like many tall fighters who started at a low weight. If you have a big frame, with long arms, and you are tall, you are most likely going to put on weight as you get older.

I was 12 stone 7 when I was 22, and I'm nearly 15 stone now, I could lose about 10 lbs to be honest, but I'd be dying if I got down to 12 stone 7, because I'm naturally bigger now than I was then. I was 13 stone 10 a couple of years back, and I looked like a whippet, to lose another 17 pounds in weight I would have to be completely emaciated.

Had I been a professional fighter, I would probably started my career at light middle, and ended it at super middle or light heavyweight. I'd have been a tall light middle at 6' 3", and a more natural 175 lb fighter.

My point is that tall rangy fighters find it very hard to stay at their early career weights, as almost universally they were boiling down like Maniacs to get there in the first place. Shorter stockier guys usually bulk up to bring themselves up in weight, with varying, but generally lesser degrees of success.

I find it incredible that on a board where Joe Calzaghe is touted as superman, that Oscars record fighting EVERYONE is being questioned, Im amazed

stujones wrote:

banjo wrote:

Autobarn wrote:what other super feather ended up at light middle?

Floyd Mayweather Jr

Yes, and he was not considered a big Super Feather either.

And Corrales had he stayed alive.

Floyd is 5ft 8.

But a ripped 10st 7lbs.

thepocketrocket wrote:I find it incredible that on a board where Joe Calzaghe is touted as superman, that Oscars record fighting EVERYONE is being questioned, Im amazed

Agreed. It's rediculous.