BoxRec

Ricky Hatton sucks. That's why.

i believe that a list that uses Ali's famous phrase to describe himself is biased from day one. i think marciano was best because he was unbeaten and did not duck anyone. i think joe louis is second, because of his long time reign. and i think lennox lewis beat everybody he was standing in the ring with. george foreman was invincible for 40 bouts and was just too personally embarrassed to get back after Ali took away his pride. tough to put jack johnson into the list, the game was so different then and he had so much against him outside the ring. (btw jeffries sad himself that even in his prime he would not have had any chance against johnson, so jeffries can't be ranked before johnson)

my list is:
marciano
louis
ali
jack johnson
lewis
foreman
tyson

actually ali and foreman are toe to toe to me. i must admit that i never liked larry holmes. i know i am unfair. i know he almost beat marciano's record, but i felt he came up in the weak post-ali era.

tyson is so tough to judge. he was so different in the beginning than later on. nevertheless he had the material. he was just too weak as a character and could not judge friend from foe.

i think most others are too tough to rank. and i think it does not make too much sense.

Marciano didn't fight Nino Valdes.

Big Bad John wrote:Ezzard Charles was smaller than Roy Jones. PERIOD. Joe Louis lost to him. So did lots of heavyweights.

That Ezzard charles beat lots of heavyweights is one of my points. Ezzard Charles proved that he was a pretty good heavyweight.

Roy Jones never beat any other heavyweight except for John Ruiz. Jones had to get used to being at a weight far heavier than he had ever been. He had to fight a guy much bigger than he had ever fought. Yet he beat Ruiz easily. Anyway you slice it, that's an embarrassing loss for Ruiz. Thats a bad loss for a really good heavyweight.Yet more evidence that Ruiz wasn't a really good heavyweight.

Ruiz was 31 when he lost to a guy that had never fought at heavyweight before.
Joe Louis was 36 and hadn't in more than two years when he lost Ezzard Charles who had proved himself against heavyweights.

To equate John Ruiz's loss to Jones to Joe Louis loss to Charles is simply silly.

Yeah, but the best "heavyweights" he fought were 185 pounds or so, or started out at 160, like Jersey Joe Walcott. In reality, Charles didn't beat anyone markedly bigger than the light heavyweights Jones faced.

Nonsense. If you are going to use that illogic, then Ruiz lost a Jr Middleweight when he lost to Roy Jones. Fighters move up in weight frequently. They aren't forever the weight that they began their career at. If they have had time to adjust to carry the new weight and fighting bigger fighters, often they can do very well (sometimes even better) at the higher weight.
Charles and Walcott are two examples of this.

However, it's very difficult to gain a lot of weight and adjust to it right away.

Walcott may have started his career out at 160, but that's not how big he was when Charles fought. He had been a heavyweight for years. Walcott was a very solid and natural 195 when Charles beat him.
Walcott was much bigger and better than anyone that Jones beat at lightheavyweight.

Charles beat a couple of guys well over 200 and some well over the lightheavyweight limit, including Elmer Ray.
Charles naturally and gradually gained weight as he began fighting heavyweights regularly.
He was quite used to the weight by the time he fought an over the hill Joe Louis.
Roy Jones had never beaten anyone over 175 before Ruiz lost to him.
He wasn't used tro carry the extra weight (18 pounds) nor fighting a much bigger man.

Sill, he was able to easily beat Ruiz. Why? Because (hear is the newsflash) Ruiz wasn't that good. Simple as that.

The fight was easy in part because the ref wouldn't let Ruiz clutch him and lean on him, the way Tarver was able to.

1. MUHAMMAD ALI
2. LARRY HOLMES
3. JOE LOUIS
4. LENNOX LEWIS
5. GEORGE FOREMAN
6. SONNY LISTON
7. ROCKY MARCIANO
8. JACK DEMPSEY
9. EVANDER HOLYFIELD
10. MIKE TYSON
11. JOE FRAZIER
12. RIDDICK BOWE
13. VITALI KLITSCHKO
14. JACK JOHNSON
15. WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO
16. GENE TUNNEY
17. JAMES JEFFRIES
18. JERSEY JOE WALCOTT
19. EZZARD CHARLES
20. MAX SCHMELING

I'm sure I could change this day-to-day, but, with a greater (but not exclusive) emphasis on who-beats-who...

1) Joe Louis
2) Muhammad Ali
3) George Foreman
4) Larry Holmes
5) Sonny Liston
6) Jack Dempsey
7) Rocky Marciano
8) Joe Frazier
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Mike Tyson

It's quite maddening. Lewis had a significantly better career than Tyson, but I think, in his pomp, Tyson would take him out. I go for Frazier over Holmes, but it'd be close, & their career achievements I consider close. I think Dempsey'd blow Frazier out, but lose to Holmes.



It's always difficult to balance who-beats-who against career accomplishments. For instance, while I think a match-up could go either way, if forced to choose, I'd take Liston to beat Foreman, yet Foreman's career is plainly more illustrious than Liston's, so, all things considered, I give the higher rating to Foreman. Very difficult for me to leave Lewis off this list, also. On another day, he may well've made it.

Whatever happened to Big Bad Jane?

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Tyson
4. Jack Johnson
5. Holmes
6. Foreman
7. Liston
8. Frazier
9. Lewis
10. Marciano

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I'm sure I could change this day-to-day, but, with a greater (but not exclusive) emphasis on who-beats-who...

1) Joe Louis
2) Muhammad Ali
3) George Foreman
4) Larry Holmes
5) Sonny Liston
6) Jack Dempsey
7) Rocky Marciano
8) Joe Frazier
9) Evander Holyfield
10) Mike Tyson

It's quite maddening. Lewis had a significantly better career than Tyson, but I think, in his pomp, Tyson would take him out. I go for Frazier over Holmes, but it'd be close, & their career achievements I consider close. I think Dempsey'd blow Frazier out, but lose to Holmes.



It's always difficult to balance who-beats-who against career accomplishments. For instance, while I think a match-up could go either way, if forced to choose, I'd take Liston to beat Foreman, yet Foreman's career is plainly more illustrious than Liston's, so, all things considered, I give the higher rating to Foreman. Very difficult for me to leave Lewis off this list, also. On another day, he may well've made it.

It's a list with all the right names except for Johnson... I think he's one of the very best. And it's hard not to have Lewis in there...

An old list of mine and even as I look at it, Harold Johnson is too low but anyway...

1 m ali
2 j louis
3 l holmes
4 l lewis
5 r marciano
6 g foreman
7 j johnson
8 j dempsey
9 j frazier
10 m tyson

11 e holyfield
12 s liston
13 j jeffries
14 g tunney
15 r bowe
16 k norton
17 v klitscho
18 b fitz
19 s langford
20 m schmeling

21 e charles
22 j walcott
23 j corbett
24 j sharkey
25 p jackson
26 h wills
27 j young
28 j jeanette
29 s mcvey
30 g godfrey

31 t witherspoon
32 m baer
33 f patterson
34 g quarry
35 a moore
36 i johansson
37 j ellis
38 m spinks
39 r lyle
40 j l sullivan

41 j willard
42 t burns
43 w klitscho
44 j doughlas
45 p maher
46 t sharkey
47 t gibbons
48 e terrell
49 e martin
50 m hart

51 j bivins
52 k norfolk
53 h greb
54 t tubbs
55 p carnera
56 t tucker
57 k mccoy
58 j clarke
59 j goddard
60 l mccarty

61 f slavin
62 e shaver
63 i ikebuchi
64 d tua
65 m moorer
66 g ruhlin
67 j choynski
68 j braddock
69 b conn
70 t loughran

71 r mercer
72 c byrd
73 g smith
74 e machen
75 z folley
76 g cooney
77 e ray
78 o mccall
79 m dokes
80 o bonavena

81 b miske
82 b pastor
83 p j o'brien
84 h johnson
85 j dillon
86 t farr
87 l firpo
88 f childs
89 g coetzee
90 p thomas

91 m weaver
92 t berbick
93 j tate
94 j bugner
95 h cooper
96 g chuvalo
97 j root
98 l gains
99 j smith
100 f bruno