Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

BoxBuzz
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by BoxBuzz »

granberry wrote:
Chuck1052 wrote:Of all of the top heavyweights of the 1970s, Joe Frazier would be the worst possible opponent for Jimmy Young. Yes, Young had quite a bit of success vs. other sluggers such as George Foreman, Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle, but Frazier had much, much more stamina than the mentioned fighters in addition to his relentless aggressiveness in the ring. As a result, I feel that Frazier would destroyed Young even though the latter had quite a bit of ring savvy.

- Chuck Johnston
Young beat Foreman.

Frazier didn't.

Late Breaking News......

Styles Make Fights: Details at 10:00PM
TheOneIsHere2008
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

BoxBuzz wrote:
granberry wrote:
Chuck1052 wrote:Of all of the top heavyweights of the 1970s, Joe Frazier would be the worst possible opponent for Jimmy Young. Yes, Young had quite a bit of success vs. other sluggers such as George Foreman, Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle, but Frazier had much, much more stamina than the mentioned fighters in addition to his relentless aggressiveness in the ring. As a result, I feel that Frazier would destroyed Young even though the latter had quite a bit of ring savvy.

- Chuck Johnston
Young beat Foreman.

Frazier didn't.
If they fought one hundred times Foreman would beat Frazier one hundred times...

Now to Young, if Foreman wasn't so concerned about how he would fare in round twelve instead of conserving his energy in round two, he might have went on one of his patented assaults, walked through whatever defense Young mounted, and got him out of there...

Late Breaking News......

Styles Make Fights: Details at 10:00PM
evndrbsn
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by evndrbsn »

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Why did Jimmy Young stick his head through the ropes three times in two minutes?

Go to the 3:55 to the 6:00 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuwGPnie ... re=related

How do you beat the champ by running out the ring?
The first one was treated as a knockdown as you see the referee count. I don't see how the next two weren't considered knockdowns; Ali sure went at him without abandon when Young was between the ropes. When Ali was getting close, Young wanted nothing to do with it and looked for anyway out. Unfortunately for him, Ali landed his best shots then.
TheOneIsHere2008
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

evndrbsn wrote:
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Why did Jimmy Young stick his head through the ropes three times in two minutes?

Go to the 3:55 to the 6:00 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuwGPnie ... re=related

How do you beat the champ by running out the ring?
The first one was treated as a knockdown as you see the referee count. I don't see how the next two weren't considered knockdowns; Ali sure went at him without abandon when Young was between the ropes. When Ali was getting close, Young wanted nothing to do with it and looked for anyway out. Unfortunately for him, Ali landed his best shots then.

Thank you...

Let's dispel once and for all the notion that Jimmy Young beat Muhammad Ali:



A challenger is not given a champion's title. He must take that title, preferably with his hands, but with a ring post if necessary. Young never has been a positive fighter, and he was far from it against Ali . He is a fighter of slight craft with a few cute moves. On the attack, his jab is a trifle, his punching of no account. On defense, caution marks his every move, his eyes are always on the exit doors. As the old wheeze goes, Young is a fighter without bad intentions. He is also not a Philadelphia fighter, that primordial strain of workmen who have left a wake of blood and upsets in the ring; Philadelphia fighters know how to take titles.

For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali . On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.


The scoring came, and so did more boos. The referee called it 10-3-2 for Ali , one judge saw it 7-5-3 for Ali and the other one gave it to him, 11-4. Despite the way their rounds were broken down—one judge didn't give Young a round until the 11th—the decision was correct. There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali ; Young had had his own vote, but he had chosen to abstain.


http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm


And the author of Ghosts Of Manilla, Mark Kram was no Ali partisan...
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by granberry »

Jimmy Young wiped up the ring with Ali.

Young rubbed Ali's nose in it.

He exposed all of Ali's flaws and limitations.

Ali worshippers HATE Young with a passion for doing that.
Last edited by granberry on 01 Aug 2008, 15:16, edited 1 time in total.
TheOneIsHere2008
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

granberry wrote:Jimmy wiped up the ring with Ali.

Young rubbed Ali's nose in it.

He exposed all of Ali's flaws and limitations.

Ali worshippers HATE Young with a passion for doing that.

A challenger is not given a champion's title. He must take that title, preferably with his hands, but with a ring post if necessary. Young never has been a positive fighter, and he was far from it against Ali . He is a fighter of slight craft with a few cute moves. On the attack, his jab is a trifle, his punching of no account. On defense, caution marks his every move, his eyes are always on the exit doors. As the old wheeze goes, Young is a fighter without bad intentions. He is also not a Philadelphia fighter, that primordial strain of workmen who have left a wake of blood and upsets in the ring; Philadelphia fighters know how to take titles.

For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali . On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.


The scoring came, and so did more boos. The referee called it 10-3-2 for Ali , one judge saw it 7-5-3 for Ali and the other one gave it to him, 11-4. Despite the way their rounds were broken down—one judge didn't give Young a round until the 11th—the decision was correct. There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali ; Young had had his own vote, but he had chosen to abstain. Public sympathy now leans toward Young, but when it is dissected it is really only an emotional response to a champion who toyed with the sensibilities of the crowd and its intelligence, a champion who was not prepared to fight the way he could and should. Ali can play the philosopher in fool's rags and be believed, he can utter ridiculous and dumb things and be applauded for them, yet when he steps into a ring for $1.6 million, he owes it to himself and his position to be worth every cent of it, or else he can no longer talk of dignity—for anybody.



http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

Granmama , can you name a boxer who was knocked down six times in one fight and got the decision, especially given the fact that the heavyweight championship has only changed hands less than five or six times in history on a decision?
Last edited by TheOneIsHere2008 on 01 Aug 2008, 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by raylawpc »

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.
I wonder exactly what Kram thought Ali was supposed to do when Young stuck his head through the ropes like that?
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by granberry »

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
granberry wrote:Jimmy wiped up the ring with Ali.

Young rubbed Ali's nose in it.

He exposed all of Ali's flaws and limitations.

Ali worshippers HATE Young with a passion for doing that.

A challenger is not given a champion's title. He must take that title, preferably with his hands, but with a ring post if necessary. Young never has been a positive fighter, and he was far from it against Ali . He is a fighter of slight craft with a few cute moves. On the attack, his jab is a trifle, his punching of no account. On defense, caution marks his every move, his eyes are always on the exit doors. As the old wheeze goes, Young is a fighter without bad intentions. He is also not a Philadelphia fighter, that primordial strain of workmen who have left a wake of blood and upsets in the ring; Philadelphia fighters know how to take titles.

For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali . On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.


The scoring came, and so did more boos. The referee called it 10-3-2 for Ali , one judge saw it 7-5-3 for Ali and the other one gave it to him, 11-4. Despite the way their rounds were broken down—one judge didn't give Young a round until the 11th—the decision was correct. There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali ; Young had had his own vote, but he had chosen to abstain. Public sympathy now leans toward Young, but when it is dissected it is really only an emotional response to a champion who toyed with the sensibilities of the crowd and its intelligence, a champion who was not prepared to fight the way he could and should. Ali can play the philosopher in fool's rags and be believed, he can utter ridiculous and dumb things and be applauded for them, yet when he steps into a ring for $1.6 million, he owes it to himself and his position to be worth every cent of it, or else he can no longer talk of dignity—for anybody.



http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

OWNED
TheOne does not know that Sports Illustrated in the number one shill organ for Ali in the entire media.

Sports Illustrated brags about how many times they have had Ali on their cover.

Their shilling for Ali is revolting.

TheOne, a devout member of The Religion of Ali, does not know this.

TheOne will go on quoting Ali shill "sources" to the end of time.

Jimmy Young exposed Ali's flaws and limitation for 15 rounds

and laughed in Ali's face while he did that.

That is why Jimmy Young is so HATED by the pawns who continually quote Thomas Hauser and the revolting Sports Illustrated in their pathetic existence as devout members of The Religion of Ali.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

raylawpc wrote:
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.
I wonder exactly what Kram thought Ali was supposed to do when Young stuck his head through the ropes like that?
Howard Cosell was calling the fight...Ken Norton joined him at ringside sometime after it began....

Their excahange went thusly:

Howard Cosell- "Kenny -Have you ever seen anything like that (referring to Jimmy Young's sticking his head through the ropes)?

Ken Norton- "No, Howard...I haven't"

LOL
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by dempseyfire »

Going back to the original thread topic, I agree with Chuck, style-wise Frazier is hell for Young.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

granberry wrote:
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
granberry wrote:Jimmy wiped up the ring with Ali.

Young rubbed Ali's nose in it.

He exposed all of Ali's flaws and limitations.

Ali worshippers HATE Young with a passion for doing that.

A challenger is not given a champion's title. He must take that title, preferably with his hands, but with a ring post if necessary. Young never has been a positive fighter, and he was far from it against Ali . He is a fighter of slight craft with a few cute moves. On the attack, his jab is a trifle, his punching of no account. On defense, caution marks his every move, his eyes are always on the exit doors. As the old wheeze goes, Young is a fighter without bad intentions. He is also not a Philadelphia fighter, that primordial strain of workmen who have left a wake of blood and upsets in the ring; Philadelphia fighters know how to take titles.

For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali . On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.


The scoring came, and so did more boos. The referee called it 10-3-2 for Ali , one judge saw it 7-5-3 for Ali and the other one gave it to him, 11-4. Despite the way their rounds were broken down—one judge didn't give Young a round until the 11th—the decision was correct. There was no way anyone could justify taking the title from Ali ; Young had had his own vote, but he had chosen to abstain. Public sympathy now leans toward Young, but when it is dissected it is really only an emotional response to a champion who toyed with the sensibilities of the crowd and its intelligence, a champion who was not prepared to fight the way he could and should. Ali can play the philosopher in fool's rags and be believed, he can utter ridiculous and dumb things and be applauded for them, yet when he steps into a ring for $1.6 million, he owes it to himself and his position to be worth every cent of it, or else he can no longer talk of dignity—for anybody.



http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

OWNED
TheOne does not know that Sports Illustrated in the number one shill organ for Ali in the entire media.

Sports Illustrated brags about how many times they have had Ali on their cover.

Their shilling for Ali is revolting.

TheOne, a devout member of The Religion of Ali, does not know this.

TheOne will go on quoting Ali shill "sources" to the end of time.

Jimmy Young exposed Ali's flaws and limitation for 15 rounds

and laughed in Ali's face while he did that.

That is why Jimmy Young is so HATED by the pawns who continually quote Thomas Hauser and the revolting Sports Illustrated in their pathetic existence as devout members of The Religion of Ali.

If Kram was in the tank for Ali why did he write the relentlessly negative portrayal of Muhammad Ali "Ghosts Of Manilla" and why was the article titled The Champ Looked Like A Chump

If you don't like SI and the RING,perhaps you can start your own magazine...Just be warned any photographs of subjects below the age of majority in less than full attire will invite the scrutiny of the authorities...
Last edited by TheOneIsHere2008 on 01 Aug 2008, 16:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

dempseyfire wrote:Going back to the original thread topic, I agree with Chuck, style-wise Frazier is hell for Young.
Frazier might not be as charitable as Muhammad...If he stuck his head out the ring against him,Joe might have really clobbered him...
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by raylawpc »

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Going back to the original thread topic, I agree with Chuck, style-wise Frazier is hell for Young.
Frazier might not be as charitable as Muhammad...If he stuck his head out the ring against him,Joe might have really clobbered him...
Can you imagine what would have happened had he tried that crap with Marciano? :o :o :o
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by granberry »

TheOne, in his Religion of Ali worship of Ali,

does not know that Mark Kram was a longtime Sports Illustrated "boxing" writer.

Kram wrote for Sports Illustrated until he was exposed as one of Don King's stooges, collecting more than his salary at the magazine from Don King at the same time.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

raylawpc wrote:
TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Going back to the original thread topic, I agree with Chuck, style-wise Frazier is hell for Young.
Frazier might not be as charitable as Muhammad...If he stuck his head out the ring against him,Joe might have really clobbered him...
Can you imagine what would have happened had he tried that crap with Marciano? :o :o :o
Or Tyson?

I saw the fight in real time...Ali wasn't punching him that hard...
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by granberry »

Ali's brother and Bundini yelled loudly at Ali during the Jimmy Young fight,

"YOU'RE LOSING, ALI. YOUR'E LOSING."

This was easliy hearable on the ABC broadcast.

Howard Cosell called attention to this and the camera panned over to them and they yelled up at Ali from where they stood below his corner.


How did you MISS that, TheOne?

LOL
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

granberry wrote:TheOne, in his Religion of Ali worship of Ali,

does not know that Mark Kram was a longtime Sports Illustrated "boxing" writer.

Kram wrote for Sports Illustrated until he was exposed as one of Don King's stooges, collecting more than his salary at the magazine from Don King at the same time.

He was fired by SI...I was more literate by seven than you are or were by seventy...And , of course I knew he worked for SI...I read his writing contemporaneously...I was re-reading them again today...I even liked him when he was critical of Ali because I knew I was reading the writing of a very bright and perceptive man...
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

granberry wrote:Ali's brother and Bundini yelled loudly at Ali during the Jimmy Young fight,

"YOU'RE LOSING, ALI. YOUR'E LOSING."

This was easliy hearable on the ABC broadcast.

Howard Cosell called attention to this and the camera panned over to them and they yelled up at Ali from where they stood below his corner.


How did you MISS that, TheOne?

LOL


I didn't miss anything:

Jimmy Young fougth scared...That's not how you win the title,ergo:


For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali . On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes

LOL


Oh, you said Mark Kram was not a credible source...Make up your mind...Wait , you don't have one...My bad...
Last edited by TheOneIsHere2008 on 01 Aug 2008, 16:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

Another thread destroyed by granberry...

We were having a pleasant conversation about the attributes of Mr's. Frazier and Young...

Oh well....

In closing we seem to have established Jimmy Young doesn't have the heart to beat Joe Frazier...He might have pulled an Oliver McCall and started crying in the ring...
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by granberry »

Mention of the name Jimmy Young makes members of The Religion of Ali FRANTIC.

As is evidenced by Ali worshipper TheOne's going into his rabid mode of posting at the mention of Young.

Jimmy Young OWNED Ali.

For 15 rounds.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

granberry wrote:Mention of the name Jimmy Young makes members of The Religion of Ali FRANTIC.

As is evidenced by Ali worshipper TheOne's going into his rabid mode of posting at the mention of Young.

Jimmy Young OWNED Ali.

For 15 rounds.
He owned him so much he stuck his head outside the ring six times ..

LOL
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by granberry »

Jimmy Young gave Ali a BOXING LESSON.

That is why Jimmy Young is so hated by members of The Religion of Ali.

Mention Jimmy Young and you will an absolutely frantic reaction from Worshippers of Ali.

TheOne's (collins') frantic, rabid posting here is another example of that.

No matter how rabidly members of the Religion post,

they cannot change the fact that Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson for all to see.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

granberry wrote:Jimmy Young gave Ali a BOXING LESSON.

That is why Jimmy Young is so hated by members of The Religion of Ali.

Mention Jimmy Young and you will an absolutely frantic reaction from Worshippers of Ali.

TheOne's (collins') frantic, rabid posting here is another example of that.

No matter how rabidly members of the Religion post,

they cannot change the fact that Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson for all to see.


A challenger is not given a champion's title. He must take that title, preferably with his hands, but with a ring post if necessary. Young never has been a positive fighter, and he was far from it against Ali . He is a fighter of slight craft with a few cute moves. On the attack, his jab is a trifle, his punching of no account. On defense, caution marks his every move, his eyes are always on the exit doors. As the old wheeze goes, Young is a fighter without bad intentions. He is also not a Philadelphia fighter, that primordial strain of workmen who have left a wake of blood and upsets in the ring; Philadelphia fighters know how to take titles.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by TheOneIsHere2008 on 01 Aug 2008, 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

Granmama , can you name a boxer who was knocked down six times in one fight and got the decision, especially given the fact that the heavyweight championship has only changed hands less than five or six times in history on a decision?
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Re: Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

Post by TheOneIsHere2008 »

granberry wrote:Lester Bromberg called the decision in the Young-Ali fight "A travesty of a decision."

Bromberg scored the fight 11 rounds for Young, and 4 for Ali.

But what does Lester Bromberg know about boxing.

LOL

Is that the old FARTwho said Liston would drop Ali in one?


LOL
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