BoxRec

Facts are facts. Everyone said that Lee Beard coming in was going to act as some kind of revolutionary change. In reality he has worked with Matt for a good few fights and worked with Hatton prior to the Lazcano fight, as shown on Sky, and neither fighter impressed massively.

Lets talk about facts then as I do love a good fact. How much time did Lee Beard actually spend on the pads with Ricky in the build up to Lazcano?

Graham gave Matt advice between rounds but if, as claimed, the gym work was done by Lee then surely the blame lies with Lee? Matt started off badly in round one and that must be down to the man who did the bulk of his work pre-fight. Matthew himself stated he did very little with Graham so that leaves Beard as the man responsible for aspects of the performance. Plus the fact Watson boxed very well.

Cannot agree with that statement, if Lee had been working on fighting a specific way then come fight night Billy read the fight his way and gave Matthew his take on what things he should be doing to win the fight then thats when it becomes a problem, as Matthew trained for specific combos etc and movement and then Billy is going against that giving advice to load up with single shots etc

Same goes for Hatton versus Lazcano. They said on Sky that Lee was brought in to shore up the defence and get the combination punching going.

Again, Beard can only be judged in my opinion if he has had adequate time to spend with Hatton, the rumour I heared was that this wasnt much due to Grahams unwillingness to take any sort of back seat.

Other people took over a portion of the training schedule, and it was a very basic period of training to deal with, and the net result was a complete arse being made of the schedule and a bad chest infection for the fighter. I guess after suffering from illness in training the feeling was that having Graham in the corner on the night would be more acceptable than a second who has no experience of guiding professional fighters through a crisis. I'm not trying to do Beard down, he is a nice guy, but the facts are that if people are now painting Billy as a Sven Goran Erickson then Lee Beard is Steve McClaren, minus the success at club level.

I dont doubt Grahams past acheivements when it comes to getting Hatton through a crisis, but cynics and other arm chair fans across the world have questioned his advice in the corner most notably in the Mayweather fight.

Macklin left the camp in a splitting of ways that was agreed between both parties. The reason was, ironically, so Graham could devote more time to both Hatton's.

Hattons? or Hatton? doesnt that contradict your theory of how much time Matthew spent with Beard, now that says one of two things to me, Matthew either wanted to spend more time with Beard as he felt he was getting more from it or Graham simply wasnt devoting enough time to Matthew, leaving him no option but to train with Beard. Either way, neither suggestion looks favourable towards Graham

Fair enough if it is a business decision. They get made everyday, but they tend to get made, and implemented, by professionals, as opposed to amateurs who cannot handle a simple matter, in boxing, such as firing a trainer. Graham made a statement to BBN about retiring on Monday so that he could bow out with some dignity and give Ojay Abrahams some attention. That attempt to bow out was seized upon to bury the fact that he was sacked, this in turn to protect a reputation that has been well earned by a fighter, but is now being well worn by the people supposedly working in professional business positions.

You make a fair number of points, it is your opinion and fair play. Yet the bottom line is that team Hatton is claiming that Graham did an Eskimo on himself and that it cut them to the quick, yet in reality we hear that the guy was pushed out. If there was a mix-up and Ray Hatton really values Graham so highly then surely the solution is simple? Graham returns to work and this whole thing is smoothed over by some brilliant PR. If not then we can infer that he was indeed sacked but someone lacked the clarity and conviction to do it firmly and in a professional manner.

I hear you and certainly at this stage it doesnt look good on the Hattons and especially Ray as he has been made to look a fool. However Im a very level headed individual and like to base my opinions on situations when i have the full facts.

Someone raised a very good question somewhere on this forum or another where they asked did Graham fail to tow the company line as in, lets agree to part ways and you can retire without us all having to get nasty and bring out the reasons why we had to get rid.

If I were Graham i believe that I would rather say i'd retired than I'd been sacked, after all if you get sacked then there is usually a reason, maybe the Hattons would rather not have to disclose the reasons he was sacked and the retirement line was a perfect solution, Graham has now left himself open for any reasons to possibly come out.

acenabox wrote:So if lee is that f*cking good why did matthew hatton lose?
If you had the slightest inkling of what goes on in a corner during a fight, you would realise that the boxer looks for direction from the person doing his corner. If that cornerman is telling him to throw single shots, totally different to what he was working on in training, and absolutely the wrong tactics, there is a clue to why things didn't work out.

So you are saying that Lee gave Matthew the wrong tactics in the fight and that is why he lost

hatton jnr lost to watson cause watson is better

it wouldnt have mattered if Floyd snr was in his corner

Coco, i know you must be being deliberately dim

Teddy,
I know who Boxingchat is.
It's as simple as that.

Teddy 007 wrote
"its nearly always working in behind the jab open him up and move out to the side or tie him up. No one would say just throw the right or just throw the left."

Maybe you should train the Hattons Teddy, you seem to have the art of boxing covered !

Billy Graham really is Mother Theresa !

Terry D wrote: Graham was initially very supportive of Beard, that support seemingly waned as he got to know him a bit more. The jury is out. Is Lee going to make it as a solid trainer off his own back? Or is he going to go down as a networker. There are many of the latter and few of the former in boxing. There are many people who see what the current in vogue trainers do and copy that, that is not way to make it in boxing, and you will be found out.

Funnily enough, that scenario sounds very similar to the way Billy himself started out as a trainer: taken under the wing of local legend Phil Martin as an assistant trainer at Champs Camp, only for Phil to retire due to poor health and Billy takes over his fighters.
Of course unlike Billy, Phil was a lot more ill than people realised at the time, and tragically died of cancer.
Think they may have fallen out before that, though I'm not 100% sure about that.

Now there's a real boxing man, Phil Martin.
Sadly missed, and whilst I've loads of time for Billy, Phil was the Manc Man for me.

Terry D wrote :
"I'm not going to contribute any more to this thread"

So Billy Graham has announced to anyone that is listening that he was sacked, and now, predictably, some people are up in arms saying “what a disgrace” and “he deserved better” etc etc. Whether he was formally dismissed from his duties or not, only the people in the room know, but I am sure that the Hatton family would have no intention of deliberately trying to belittle Billy Graham or what he has done with the brothers over the years. No one likes to be sacked, and if true Ray Hatton had no reason to paper over events, but he did to spare Billy’s pride. It’s now been thrown back in his face.
Quite regularly trainers and boxers become stale, repetitive training methods, lack of ambition to improve, lack of enjoyment and basically tiring of each other are all things that can happen when you work in a boxing environment. At this point both trainer and boxer have a decision to make, either stick with it to the bitter end, or look to freshen things up, bring in varied training ideas, and hopefully this will give the grind of day to day training a fresh injection of enthusiasm and improvement. The decision was made by the Hatton family to bring in Lee Beard to the camp over two years ago and he has worked quietly, and exclusively, behind the scenes with Mathew Hatton and Matthew Macklin. Lee did all the work with both lads up until the night of the fight, when Billy came in and did the corner. Not ideal. Lee continued to work with Matthew Macklin after he left the Phoenix Camp Gym until he linked up with Buddy McGirt and Paul Smith in the US and during this time with Lee, Matthew Hatton was rated as one of the most improved boxers in the country. Matthew lost his last fight, so he made the decision to have the person he works day to day with, Lee Beard, to have full control over his next camp. In seeing the day to day work with Matthew, Ricky brought in Lee as co trainer for the Lazcano fight and for the upcoming Mallinaggi fight. Billy, for whatever personal reasons, dismissed the idea and continued along the same tired road.
At one time Billy had Ricky and Matthew Hatton, Matthew Macklin, Paul Smith and Michael Gomez in the gym, one by one they all left. Why ? lack of personal attention ? lack of enthusiasm ? they are not all Ricky ? Who knows, but Billy was the man in charge.
The fact is Lee Beard is highly rated by all the boxers who work with him, along with Matthew and Ricky, Matthew Macklin enjoys working with him, as did Amir Khan. Floyd Mayweather snr (trainer of Floyd jnr. Oscar De La Hoya, Joan Guzman, Chad Dawson etc) rates Lee highly, and more and more boxers and trainers are beginning to request Lee’s services. Not bad for a lad who despite having 10 years training amateurs has no experience ! Where do people think boxers and coaches come from, off street corners ? Only when Lee has been given full scope to work with boxers in a training camp, something Billy would never allow, can those who have never worked in a boxing environment pass their ill informed “judgements”



(yes i did post this on another thread)

Teddy,
I don't know him "personally" as you put it.
Surely a man of your calibre has worked out who it is ?
While we're on the subject, noticed th sudden influx of new posters ? HPI / Acenabox.
Wonder who they might be ?
Surely not PR men for the Hattons ?

sweetscience wrote:didnt Smith leave Graham due to FW

im not knocking this Beard chappie, i know nowt about him, but my first thoughts were that hatton will have sacked graham off cause there is no need to pay him £1or2m when he can pay this Beard geezer a pitance, which im sure he is on

i will plat shit if he is on a %

what a lovely thing to offer to do, i so hope he's on a %.

Funny this!! love reading it

Hey Arnie - no disguising your ID is there ?!
Seriously, what's your opinion on Beard and whether he's ready for this step up ?
Did you apply ?!?

twenty six wrote:While we're on the subject, noticed th sudden influx of new posters ? HPI / Acenabox.
Wonder who they might be ?
Surely not PR men for the Hattons ?

Read my mind mate.

Terry D wrote : I take it the bold statement is you telling us you work in a boxing environment. You claim to know a lot about the local boxing issues, plus about a certain gym and trainer/s. What is your 'working' role in boxing

I think you meant " the statement that is enhanced in bold type".....also i dont claim to know a lot about the local boxing issues, only certain ones ! My 'working' role in boxing is probably a little more advanced than hanging around gyms with a laptop. Each to their own i suppose though

twenty six wrote:Teddy,
I don't know him "personally" as you put it.
Surely a man of your calibre has worked out who it is ?
While we're on the subject, noticed th sudden influx of new posters ? HPI / Acenabox.
Wonder who they might be ?
Surely not PR men for the Hattons ?

What makes you think Im a PR man just because I'm being objective and supporting a fighter ive followed for so many years. Ricky gets slagged off all over the shop these days and its pretty unjust, i think this is just another example and decided to say my bit. I enjoy reading many forums and dont really contribute that often unless something gets me and this is one of those things

Where in my post do I allege you are a PR man, HPI ?
For the avoidance of doubt, I am also a staunch Hatton fan and have been since he made his pro debut.
That doesn't stop me having an opinion on matters relating to Hatton.

8)

Teddy,
Way off beam.
Think Wazza and SN.

HPI wrote:

twenty six wrote:Teddy,
I don't know him "personally" as you put it.
Surely a man of your calibre has worked out who it is ?
While we're on the subject, noticed th sudden influx of new posters ? HPI / Acenabox.
Wonder who they might be ?
Surely not PR men for the Hattons ?

What makes you think Im a PR man just because I'm being objective and supporting a fighter ive followed for so many years. Ricky gets slagged off all over the shop these days and its pretty unjust, i think this is just another example and decided to say my bit. I enjoy reading many forums and dont really contribute that often unless something gets me and this is one of those things

Does the red lettering help jog your memory on what you wrote?

Then read it !
I wonder who you might be !
Care to respond ?
Dont give me the "just a fan" line.

acenabox wrote:So if lee is that f*cking good why did matthew hatton lose?
If you had the slightest inkling of what goes on in a corner during a fight, you would realise that the boxer looks for direction from the person doing his corner. If that cornerman is telling him to throw single shots, totally different to what he was working on in training, and absolutely the wrong tactics, there is a clue to why things didn't work out.

Surely the question is, if Lee was training him why was Billy in the corner?

twenty six wrote:Then read it !
I wonder who you might be !
Care to respond ?
Dont give me the "just a fan" line.

I have no other line to give you my friend, i just take a keen interest in the sport and happen to know the odd person here and there in the business, everything im basing my comments on is readily available on every forum and news pages across the net, now because im able to retain knowledge and call upon it when needed in an argument all of a sudden im the kgb or something

your a suspiscious lot arent you,

if you care to have any other debates about other subjects go ahead,

what about oscar or does that mean im richard shaefer or what about Tyson, shit i must be don king snooping on an internet forum

HPI wrote:

twenty six wrote:Then read it !
I wonder who you might be !
Care to respond ?
Dont give me the "just a fan" line.

I have no other line to give you my friend, i just take a keen interest in the sport and happen to know the odd person here and there in the business, everything im basing my comments on is readily available on every forum and news pages across the net, now because im able to retain knowledge and call upon it when needed in an argument all of a sudden im the kgb or something

your a suspiscious lot arent you,

if you care to have any other debates about other subjects go ahead,

what about oscar or does that mean im richard shaefer or what about Tyson, shit i must be don king snooping on an internet forum

Hi Don when was the last time you kicked the sh*t out of someone