charlieb wrote:
But let's just say a top level guy completely underestimated him (let's say pre Khan) and fought wrecklessly, without giving his now obvious strengths the respect they deserved, and got caught with the same combo that levelled Khan, I'd bet a lot of money they wouldn't be upright. That first knockdown came on the end of two of the most vicious looking punches I've seen in a long .
Yeah I agree, whilst Khan's chin obviously aint the greatest, the shots that levelled him last time out were stone cold brutal. The last one looked like it would have put over just about any lightweight - Khan's head actually changes shape under the impact, when you watch it in the slo mo.
He should have been out cold, so the fact he actually got up after a shot like that indicates his powers of recovery are not too bad.
black panther wrote:I'm not gonna write Khan off just yet - he's still a kid in boxing terms. But what I will say is that he will not become an ATG as his camp were banging on about early in his career. I mean come on, if the limited David Diaz can pick up a belt, who's to say Khan won't be able to. On a related note I'd really like to see how Prescott does from now on as he had ko'ed absolutely no-one of note before ko'ing khan and its all very well saying the shots that ko'ed khan would have ko'ed anybody but we really don't know that until he fights someone else decent. Javier Jauergui would be a good bet. For Khan or Prescott.
The cat's out of the bag now though isn't it. Nobody's going to take this guy lightly, although it'll definitely be interesting to see just how good he might be.
I agree that Khan's not likely to achieve ATG status, but there's 'writing a kid off completely' and then there's 'writing off a kid's potential to be an ATG'.... there's a whole world of levels between those two outcomes.
He can become a TITLIST, but who cares about TITLIST status unless you're fighting A class fighters (Pac-Man) or dominating B and C class fighters (Mayweather). Both of these levels Khan will fall short upon. There are too many shit fighters getting props out there nowadays.
It's amazing the certainty with which posters on this thread are mapping out Khan's career. The detail and precise glass ceilings are laughable, and betray some pretty wooly thinking.
Nobody, in truth, knows where he's heading, but I'm willing to listen to those who argue that he can't go so far, if they back it up with a sound argument, which some have.
What I think isn't at all worth listening to, is those who are providing detailed "he can become a titlist, but not champion"/"he could beat this sort of fighter but not that" kind of posts.
It's patently absurd: boxing is nothing if not predictable, and most of us can't pick individual fights with any degree of accuracy, yet some here are mapping out a whole career with the certainty of truth and inevitability of a religious fundamentalist.
Carbo wrote:It's amazing the certainty with which posters on this thread are mapping out Khan's career. The detail and precise glass ceilings are laughable, and betray some pretty wooly thinking.
Nobody, in truth, knows where he's heading, but I'm willing to listen to those who argue that he can't go so far, if they back it up with a sound argument, which some have.
What I think isn't at all worth listening to, is those who are providing detailed "he can become a titlist, but not champion"/"he could beat this sort of fighter but not that" kind of posts.
It's patently absurd: boxing is nothing if not predictable, and most of us can't pick individual fights with any degree of accuracy, yet some here are mapping out a whole career with the certainty of truth and inevitability of a religious fundamentalist.
Nothing absurd about it, the inability to weather any kind of mandibular impact, precludes him from being able to succeed at top level.
Gray-Fox wrote:He can become a TITLIST, but who cares about TITLIST status unless you're fighting A class fighters (Pac-Man) or dominating B and C class fighters (Mayweather). Both of these levels Khan will fall short upon. There are too many shit fighters getting props out there nowadays.
Are you mad? Pac-man A class and Mayweather in B-c class???
Gray-Fox wrote:He can become a TITLIST, but who cares about TITLIST status unless you're fighting A class fighters (Pac-Man) or dominating B and C class fighters (Mayweather). Both of these levels Khan will fall short upon. There are too many shit fighters getting props out there nowadays.
Are you mad? Pac-man A class and Mayweather in B-c class???
Not what he said. The classes refer to the opposition.
Carbo wrote:It's amazing the certainty with which posters on this thread are mapping out Khan's career. The detail and precise glass ceilings are laughable, and betray some pretty wooly thinking.
Nobody, in truth, knows where he's heading, but I'm willing to listen to those who argue that he can't go so far, if they back it up with a sound argument, which some have.
What I think isn't at all worth listening to, is those who are providing detailed "he can become a titlist, but not champion"/"he could beat this sort of fighter but not that" kind of posts.
It's patently absurd: boxing is nothing if not predictable, and most of us can't pick individual fights with any degree of accuracy, yet some here are mapping out a whole career with the certainty of truth and inevitability of a religious fundamentalist.
Just don't think with his vunerablilities and temperament he'll reach the heights of being a dominant, genuine world champ in a strong division. I don't think he'll beat the creme de la creme of boxing, the guys sitting at he top of the current p4p lists - the Pacquiao, Marquez, Cotto, Guzman and Margarito's of this world. That's just my opinion. Do you think in ten fights time with more experience he's going to get that much better and be beating these type of guys? But you're right in a way that only time will tell. Amir is talented - there's no doubt about that. And I genuinely want him to do well.
People are so down on him because he did show a lot of potential; I don't think he's a completely concussive puncher or naturally heavy handed, but he is very quick and accurate and that alone will make his shots seem pretty powerful.
The negativity stems from the handling of his career IMO. It's OK writing the KO to Prescott off, as Prescott does look heavy handed, but getting on for 18-20 fights should be enough time to be able to compete against anyone and showing signs of being world class if he's gonna get there, and being blown away in one minute is a worrying sign - more worrying, however, is that Prescott was really the first genuine Lightweight that Khan fought. Khan looks big at the weight, which makes the choice of opposition up until Prescott pretty laughable, a lot of feather/super feathers moving up. Couple that poor standard of opposition with the fact that more than one has put Khan down (poor defence) and more than one has seriously wobbled his legs (poor chin), and it really doesn't show me that he'll go much further.
I know he got up to beat those guys, but that was more testament to their lack of quality/size. Against anyone remotely world class who is the genuinely the same weight as Khan he looks like he'll struggle.
Posters are hard on Khan as he has had a lot of money on the promise that he's the next big thing, and his handlers have matched him poorly so as to maximise their return on him (ie get more money out of us). He's also not had the best press out of the ring, well documented driving like a lunatic on more than one occasion. All these things go together and get people's backs up. When Khan is being talked up as genuine world class, has not beaten anyone of note, has looked like he can be stopped, and is throwing £750k "of his own money" into charitable projects, you have to give him some stick. There are prospects in other parts of the world giving and taking hard shots for very little money, and fighting their way to the top. My vehemence is directed more to the celebrity/tv culture that's thrown the cash at Khan - you can't blame him for taking it - and against his matchmakers, who have either tried to disguise the fact that he's not all he's cracked up to be, or have ruined his career by consistent poor matchmaking hampering the realisation of his undoubted early potential.
I don't think Khan is even the best in Britain. I think Murray and Thaxton would beat him.
The worrying signs are. Even Khans camp don't want Khan to fight Murray or Thaxton. Thaxton still wants to fight Khan. Khan could get a European title shot when ever he wants. If Khans team were confident of him beating Thaxton or Murray surely he would have fought one of them by now?
Khan can't win a world title. He's stuck in the division at the moment with no where to go. Why doesn't he take the old fashion route and work up from the British title? He'll lose, that’s why. Proving he's not even the best at domestic level.
Frank was hoping for some easy fights until he could get Khan an easy title shot. It wasn't easy though. Limond, gomez, even the St Clair fight showed warning signs. Khan and Warren wanted to silent the critics (about khans chin) by fighting a limited but legit lightweight puncher. Of course Prescott is limited. Why else would Jorge Rubio who trained Prescott pick him to be Amirs Opponent? The plan backed fired. With Khan being annihilated within a minute.
I don't think Khan will win a world title. (if he does, it'll be a vacant belt vs a bum) There's no chance of Khan being a ATG.
I can't see how anyone can say they think he'll be a world champion. What are these peoples opinions based on? Have they not seen any Amirs Khans fights? The only thing I see people say to justify this statement is. "He's extremely fast". Well being fast doesn't mean shit I’m afraid. I think Khans power is hugely overrated. People on here act as if Khan can KO people with one shot. He can't. He doesn't have a one punch KO like Thaxton.
Gray-Fox wrote:He can become a TITLIST, but who cares about TITLIST status unless you're fighting A class fighters (Pac-Man) or dominating B and C class fighters (Mayweather). Both of these levels Khan will fall short upon. There are too many shit fighters getting props out there nowadays.
Are you mad? Pac-man A class and Mayweather in B-c class???
lmao
Gray-Fox, you clearly have no idea do you.
You make guys like Calzaghe out to be some sort of legend.
But Mayweather a C-Class fighter?
banjo wrote:Read the post again, it does not mention Mayweather as a C-class fighter
I read it to mean that Pacman takes fights against the best, and Mayweather selected opponents just below the very top. I can't say I agree totally, but understand the point that holding a WBF title and dodging defending against anyone of note is a pretty pointless exercise.
Banjo, Sharpei and Carbo read my post in the way it was intended.
Like it or lump it, but Pac-Man fought LIVE fighters when they were capable of beating him. Floyd fought semi-live big names who had little to no shot of beating him. There's nothing WRONG with that per se because he dominated in a fashion that no one else fighting B and C class fighters (save for B-Hop and RJJ) could. That is why Mayweather was so highly rated.
Gray-Fox wrote:Banjo, Sharpei and Carbo read my post in the way it was intended.
Like it or lump it, but Pac-Man fought LIVE fighters when they were capable of beating him. Floyd fought semi-live big names who had little to no shot of beating him. There's nothing WRONG with that per se because he dominated in a fashion that no one else fighting B and C class fighters (save for B-Hop and RJJ) could. That is why Mayweather was so highly rated.
He fought better rated fighters than Calzaghe ever fought.
So tell us, why you rate Calazaghe as some sort of legend, but not Mayweather.
sg1985 wrote:but mike tysons record is shit i mean just have a look at his 19th n 20th one had lost 8 one had lost 9! they shouldnt have been there. you cant honestly tell me his record is good in his early career.
How stupid are you trying to make yourself look?
Tysons first 18 opponents were all genuine heavies from his own division -- not fighting guys from divisions below him like Khan.
Tyson beat the very dangerous Jesse Ferguson, and also fought Donny Long who had gone the distance with two world class fighters.
Comparing Tysons first 18 opponents to Khans is just ridiculous.
Filipino ring idol Manny Pacquiao, slowly stepping up his relentless preparation for the “Dream Match” against Oscar De La Hoya at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on December 6, has sparred with British lightweight hope Amir Khan (18-1, 14 KO’s) and junior middleweight Rashad Holloway (9-1, 5 KO’s).
Conditioning guru Alex Ariza, in an overseas telephone conversation with insidesports.ph, Standard Today and Viva Sports, said Pacquiao went two rounds with Khan and four rounds against Holloway and clearly benefited from the session at the Wild Card Gym of celebrated trainer Freddie Roach.
Ariza said Pacquiao “did very well” with Holloway who is 5’10 and approximates the style of De La Hoya which is what Roach really likes and said Pacquiao is adjusting well to Holloway’s height.
Ariza revealed that Pacquiao “took a while to adjust to the speed of Khan but it was a lot different from Holloway because Khan is a lot faster than Holloway so it’s a good match.”
He said it was a good mix of facing a big guy and then going up against someone with great hand speed such as Khan who is almost 6 feet tall.
Ariza who was credited with getting Pacquiao into tremendous condition for his WBC lightweight title fight against David Diaz in terms of his weight and how he carried the extra poundage and went on to demolish Diaz in nine rounds said Pacquiao “is doing really well .”
The conditioning coach confirmed that Roach was upset the other day when somebody, apparently in the Pacquiao entourage, brought in people while Pacquiao was training.
Ariza pointed out “people know that the gym is closed and yet they still continue to show up. We understand that there are fans, or friends or family members but the truth of the matter is, there’s a sign that says the gym is closed.”
Despite the seeming occasional distractions Ariza said “I am very happy with this job. More importantly Manny is maintaining his weight and that right now is my biggest concern. According to Freddie he (Pacquiao) has great footwork, great speed and a much bigger puncher so if I can just hold the weight and not lose it,” the public will be treated to a great fight.
He said that Pacquiao weighs a 152 pounds right now and would want him to come in around 147 at fight time which is what Roach also told us he’d like to see.
Filipino ring idol Manny Pacquiao, slowly stepping up his relentless preparation for the “Dream Match” against Oscar De La Hoya at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on December 6, has sparred with British lightweight hope Amir Khan (18-1, 14 KO’s) and junior middleweight Rashad Holloway (9-1, 5 KO’s).
Conditioning guru Alex Ariza, in an overseas telephone conversation with insidesports.ph, Standard Today and Viva Sports, said Pacquiao went two rounds with Khan and four rounds against Holloway and clearly benefited from the session at the Wild Card Gym of celebrated trainer Freddie Roach.
Ariza said Pacquiao “did very well” with Holloway who is 5’10 and approximates the style of De La Hoya which is what Roach really likes and said Pacquiao is adjusting well to Holloway’s height.
Ariza revealed that Pacquiao “took a while to adjust to the speed of Khan but it was a lot different from Holloway because Khan is a lot faster than Holloway so it’s a good match.”
He said it was a good mix of facing a big guy and then going up against someone with great hand speed such as Khan who is almost 6 feet tall.
Ariza who was credited with getting Pacquiao into tremendous condition for his WBC lightweight title fight against David Diaz in terms of his weight and how he carried the extra poundage and went on to demolish Diaz in nine rounds said Pacquiao “is doing really well .”
The conditioning coach confirmed that Roach was upset the other day when somebody, apparently in the Pacquiao entourage, brought in people while Pacquiao was training.
Ariza pointed out “people know that the gym is closed and yet they still continue to show up. We understand that there are fans, or friends or family members but the truth of the matter is, there’s a sign that says the gym is closed.”
Despite the seeming occasional distractions Ariza said “I am very happy with this job. More importantly Manny is maintaining his weight and that right now is my biggest concern. According to Freddie he (Pacquiao) has great footwork, great speed and a much bigger puncher so if I can just hold the weight and not lose it,” the public will be treated to a great fight.
He said that Pacquiao weighs a 152 pounds right now and would want him to come in around 147 at fight time which is what Roach also told us he’d like to see.
Carbo wrote:It's amazing the certainty with which posters on this thread are mapping out Khan's career. The detail and precise glass ceilings are laughable, and betray some pretty wooly thinking.
Nobody, in truth, knows where he's heading, but I'm willing to listen to those who argue that he can't go so far, if they back it up with a sound argument, which some have.
What I think isn't at all worth listening to, is those who are providing detailed "he can become a titlist, but not champion"/"he could beat this sort of fighter but not that" kind of posts.
It's patently absurd: boxing is nothing if not predictable, and most of us can't pick individual fights with any degree of accuracy, yet some here are mapping out a whole career with the certainty of truth and inevitability of a religious fundamentalist.
Nothing absurd about it, the inability to weather any kind of mandibular impact, precludes him from being able to succeed at top level.
