BoxRec

Chambers2 wrote:If Calzaghe doesn't deem Froch and Dawson good enough to fight him (even though ancient RJJ's and Nard were ), then he has to retire IMO as there aren't any more deserving than those 2 IMO, but in saying that Calzaghe has had a tendency to avoid meanigful fights and deserving fighters, so I expect them to dig Glen Johnson up for JC's finale.

Whether Joe 'mans up' or not is irrespective as Carls career will go from strength to strength either way, but yet again British Boxing misses out on a Great fight due to 1 fighters reluctance to get in the ring and test himself against the best from his homeland. As Nigel Benn said "They just don't want to fight each other any more" (never a truer word spoke)

Thank god for the new breed of UK Boxing stars in Haye and Froch who are willing to fight anybody, anywhere, anytime. It's a trait that has been sorely missed in the UK scene over recent times. No matter what Haye and Froch go onto achieve I'm sure both will gain more respect from the knowledgable than the likes of Joe and Ricky ever will

I think you make some valid points Chambers but can't agree that Froch is up there with Dawson in terms of deserving a shot at Calzaghe. Dawson MUST be ahead of Froch due to the fact that he's beaten far superior opposition than Froch has. Bute is also ahead of Froch in the pecking order in my opinion. Have to say though that I wouldn't mind seeing Froch v Calzaghe though am sure we'd want want different outcomes!!!

BigGar wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:If Calzaghe doesn't deem Froch and Dawson good enough to fight him (even though ancient RJJ's and Nard were ), then he has to retire IMO as there aren't any more deserving than those 2 IMO, but in saying that Calzaghe has had a tendency to avoid meanigful fights and deserving fighters, so I expect them to dig Glen Johnson up for JC's finale.

Whether Joe 'mans up' or not is irrespective as Carls career will go from strength to strength either way, but yet again British Boxing misses out on a Great fight due to 1 fighters reluctance to get in the ring and test himself against the best from his homeland. As Nigel Benn said "They just don't want to fight each other any more" (never a truer word spoke)

Thank god for the new breed of UK Boxing stars in Haye and Froch who are willing to fight anybody, anywhere, anytime. It's a trait that has been sorely missed in the UK scene over recent times. No matter what Haye and Froch go onto achieve I'm sure both will gain more respect from the knowledgable than the likes of Joe and Ricky ever will

I think you make some valid points Chambers but can't agree that Froch is up there with Dawson in terms of deserving a shot at Calzaghe. Dawson MUST be ahead of Froch due to the fact that he's beaten far superior opposition than Froch has. Bute is also ahead of Froch in the pecking order in my opinion. Have to say though that I wouldn't mind seeing Froch v Calzaghe though am sure we'd want want different outcomes!!!

I think the fact that Carl and Joe are both British should automatically boost Carls chances of getting the fight, considering that boxing is a business rather than a sport as it makes good business sense in the UK, but even if people don't agree, since when has Calzaghe chose his opponents depending on who was the most deserving challenger?? even right upto his last fight Pavlik was far more deserving than RJJ.

Froch is a banger and Joe doesn't like bangers as they don't fit well into his Risk/Reward matchmaking ethos.

Chambers2 wrote:
Thank god for the new breed of UK Boxing stars in Haye and Froch who are willing to fight anybody, anywhere, anytime. It's a trait that has been sorely missed in the UK scene over recent times. No matter what Haye and Froch go onto achieve I'm sure both will gain more respect from the knowledgable than the likes of Joe and Ricky ever will

I would be amazed if Froch gets anywhere near the respect Calzaghe of Hatton has. He took seven years from turning pro to win a world title (a vacant title at that) and is 31, boxed just 4 times in the past 2 years beating Tateyosevan, Reid, Rybacki and Pascal - hardly fits in with that "fight anyone" attitude. Over the same period, Calzaghe beat Manfredo, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones.

Has Froch really earned the fight? And yet he says Calzaghe should come down in weight to fight him.

gobbles wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:
Thank god for the new breed of UK Boxing stars in Haye and Froch who are willing to fight anybody, anywhere, anytime. It's a trait that has been sorely missed in the UK scene over recent times. No matter what Haye and Froch go onto achieve I'm sure both will gain more respect from the knowledgable than the likes of Joe and Ricky ever will

I would be amazed if Froch gets anywhere near the respect Calzaghe of Hatton has. He took seven years from turning pro to win a world title (a vacant title at that) and is 31, boxed just 4 times in the past 2 years beating Tateyosevan, Reid, Rybacki and Pascal - hardly fits in with that "fight anyone" attitude. Over the same period, Calzaghe beat Manfredo, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones.

Has Froch really earned the fight? And yet he says Calzaghe should come down in weight to fight him.

Surely you can see that you're talking about 2 different stages of their careers?? and I'm sure I don't need to start quoting Pudwill, Jiminez, Salem and co out to you??? There's no way that Froch will be happy repeatedly beating handpicked opponents from the safety of his hometown for the majority of his career. Froch is more than willing to fight Joe, but Joe isn't reciprocating, that's the anybody, anytime, anywhere attitude that I'm referring to.

What as earning the fight got to do with the price of fish?? since when has Calzaghe worked by those principles?? Even going back to Joes last fight Roy Jones wasn't as worthy as Froch is now. I'm sure the weight issue could be negotiated out if Joe would enter negotiations rather than just claiming that nobody is worthy to look him in the eyes.

Froch fought 4 times in 2 years as he had to have operations to correct longstanding injuries. Now he's back to full fitness and he's ready to smash up the world.

Mick Hennessy was interviewed on the ITV4 Darren Barker show on Saturday and he said that Lou Dibella and Mogans Palle have both been in contact regarding fights with Taylor and Kessler, so Calzaghes not the only option.... he's just the most best one.

Chambers2 wrote:

gobbles wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:
Thank god for the new breed of UK Boxing stars in Haye and Froch who are willing to fight anybody, anywhere, anytime. It's a trait that has been sorely missed in the UK scene over recent times. No matter what Haye and Froch go onto achieve I'm sure both will gain more respect from the knowledgable than the likes of Joe and Ricky ever will

I would be amazed if Froch gets anywhere near the respect Calzaghe of Hatton has. He took seven years from turning pro to win a world title (a vacant title at that) and is 31, boxed just 4 times in the past 2 years beating Tateyosevan, Reid, Rybacki and Pascal - hardly fits in with that "fight anyone" attitude. Over the same period, Calzaghe beat Manfredo, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones.

Has Froch really earned the fight? And yet he says Calzaghe should come down in weight to fight him.

Surely you can see that you're talking about 2 different stages of their careers?? and I'm sure I don't need to start quoting Pudwill, Jiminez, Salem and co out to you??? There's no way that Froch will be happy repeatedly beating handpicked opponents from the safety of his hometown for the majority of his career. Froch is more than willing to fight Joe, but Joe isn't reciprocating, that's the anybody, anytime, anywhere attitude that I'm referring to.

What as earning the fight got to do with the price of fish?? since when has Calzaghe worked by those principles?? Even going back to Joes last fight Roy Jones wasn't as worthy as Froch is now. I'm sure the weight issue could be negotiated out if Joe would enter negotiations rather than just claiming that nobody is worthy to look him in the eyes.

Froch fought 4 times in 2 years as he had to have operations to correct longstanding injuries. Now he's back to full fitness and he's ready to smash up the world.

Mick Hennessy was interviewed on the ITV4 Darren Barker show on Saturday and he said that Lou Dibella and Mogans Palle have both been in contact regarding fights with Taylor and Kessler, so Calzaghes not the only option.... he's just the most best one.

But quoting those name would be ridiculous, as Calzaghe has had as many world title fights as Froch has had fights. My point is that this "fight anyone, anywhere" attitude is just words. Froch has never boxed as the away fighter in his whole career. The only time he did not box on a Hennessy Sports show was when he boxed in Hollywood against a hand-picked Costa Rican, when Hennessy had a tie-up with Golden Boy. It has all been put on a plate for him since day one when he was the centre of the BBC prospects class. When he has a world title shot, it is in his home town. Two months ago he said he would fight Calzaghe at light-heavyweight, now he says he doesn't want to give Calzaghe that advantage.
The difference is, you knock Calzaghe, yet Froch never done anything to even suggest he would fight "anywhere, anytime". I think Taylor would be the most exciting fight for him, but would Mick be willing to let Froch fight on a show in the US, or will that screw up his hopes of a longer ITV deal?

Mick and Carl have repeatedly said that they're willing to travel to the US for the Taylor fight, if need be. Carl hasn't had everything handed to him on a plate and on the whole he has been sternly matched on his rise to the top.

Carl has gained something, a WBC title, a terrestrial TV audience. So let's be sensible, it's not like he has to start giving weight away, and giving location away, for everything. Some of you are acting like he has zero. If Calzaghe is the example, let's remind everyone - defend WBO title 8 years, then take the big fights when the other champs come over. Yeah, great yardstick! We should pine for the good ol' days.

Froch is a marketable guy. It's a bit daft, this "Froch brings nothing" nonsense. This, "the only reason they want to fight him, is because his chin is open". If Nathan Cerleverly were holding a WBO title, the world would not give a fvck - no power, repetitive fights - and the likes of Arum, DiBella, Palle would only be interested for a piss easy title.

We are scared of change, IMO.

All this about when Froch steps up, he will get destroyed - is this why most British fighters don't step up, then, because they're pretty sure their nice little earner will end? If Froch believes in his abilitities, and doesn't swerve the big fights, then things can be very good.

Autobarn wrote:Carl has gained something, a WBC title, a terrestrial TV audience. So let's be sensible, it's not like he has to start giving weight away, and giving location away, for everything. Some of you are acting like he has zero. If Calzaghe is the example, let's remind everyone - defend WBO title 8 years, then take the big fights when the other champs come over. Yeah, great yardstick! We should pine for the good ol' days.

Froch is a marketable guy. It's a bit daft, this "Froch brings nothing" nonsense. This, "the only reason they want to fight him, is because his chin is open". If Nathan Cerleverly were holding a WBO title, the world would not give a fvck - no power, repetitive fights - and the likes of Arum, DiBella, Palle would only be interested for a piss easy title.

We are scared of change, IMO.

All this about when Froch steps up, he will get destroyed - is this why most British fighters don't step up, then, because they're pretty sure their nice little earner will end? If Froch believes in his abilitities, and doesn't swerve the big fights, then things can be very good.

I certainly don't think he brings nothing, neither do I think he will be destroyed. But I don't think he brings enough to make Calzaghe carry on and, having been saying he would beat Calzaghe since he was fighting eight-rounders, I think it's a bit rich him complaining that Calzaghe has been rude to him.

To say Froch has been "sternly matched" is not backed up by the facts. He won a Commonwealth title nearly five years ago but never challenged for the European title and prior to being made WBC No 1, the only ranked fighters he faced were Porras and Magee, neither of whom were in the top ten.

There is no real comparison to Haye, who beat ranked opponents in Kelly, Gurov, Rossitto and Frogomeni and then went abroad to beat a reigning double world champion.

Can anybody remeber a Warren piece about a year ago? I seem to remember it was in the NOTW.

He said Froch had been to see him about going with him and then Warren told him he could do the JC fight and Carl re-signed / stayed with Mick H.

SO this brings us to the question, if Carl wanted the fight that badly why not take it then? There seems to be a party line at Hennessy sports, get your boxers to shout for the fights that you know will NEVER HAPPEN.

e.g Witter (v Hatton), Hide (v Haye & Macca) and Froch (v anyone with a name). Dave Walker (ODLH and other assorted superstars)

Carl is a good boxer. Would he beat Kessler? Yes I think so. Taylor? Maybe, he's small at the weight. Miranda? Probably not. Calzaghe? Who saw JC on sports personallity last night, his hearts gone out of the game now. Pavlik? NO WAY (but that's dependant on how Kelly's head is after the B-HOP nightmare! When a boxer gets mastered that badly or KO'd then you can never be sure how they will respond.

Carl's major flaw is that if someone stands upto him he has a scrap. It's ok at a level but with your Miranda's, Kesslers, and Pavlik's of this world IMO it's a matter of time before he gets stopped. And when I say stopped I mean SPARKO'D!

gobbles wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Carl has gained something, a WBC title, a terrestrial TV audience. So let's be sensible, it's not like he has to start giving weight away, and giving location away, for everything. Some of you are acting like he has zero. If Calzaghe is the example, let's remind everyone - defend WBO title 8 years, then take the big fights when the other champs come over. Yeah, great yardstick! We should pine for the good ol' days.

Froch is a marketable guy. It's a bit daft, this "Froch brings nothing" nonsense. This, "the only reason they want to fight him, is because his chin is open". If Nathan Cerleverly were holding a WBO title, the world would not give a fvck - no power, repetitive fights - and the likes of Arum, DiBella, Palle would only be interested for a piss easy title.

We are scared of change, IMO.

All this about when Froch steps up, he will get destroyed - is this why most British fighters don't step up, then, because they're pretty sure their nice little earner will end? If Froch believes in his abilitities, and doesn't swerve the big fights, then things can be very good.

I certainly don't think he brings nothing, neither do I think he will be destroyed. But I don't think he brings enough to make Calzaghe carry on and, having been saying he would beat Calzaghe since he was fighting eight-rounders, I think it's a bit rich him complaining that Calzaghe has been rude to him.

To say Froch has been "sternly matched" is not backed up by the facts. He won a Commonwealth title nearly five years ago but never challenged for the European title and prior to being made WBC No 1, the only ranked fighters he faced were Porras and Magee, neither of whom were in the top ten.

There is no real comparison to Haye, who beat ranked opponents in Kelly, Gurov, Rossitto and Frogomeni and then went abroad to beat a reigning double world champion.

The Calzaghe fight certainly is unrealistic as Froch is really the successor to the throne and we don't get many of those heir apparent fights anymore and Joe would only fight on for obscene amounts of money. I believe he must be wishing RJJ won maybe 4 of 12 rds to justify a rematch. Even then, the PPV #s were disappointing, not big enough to justify the kind of money they were on, again.

I was never a Froch fan until the Magee, Dodson and Tatevosyan bouts. Before that I did find him uninteresting, unappealing & messy to watch. The Sky shows seemed to be too slick and impersonal (compare with Gabriel Clarke's excellent feature on Froch in Ireland and Froch's studio work on ITV) and Froch seemed to be sulking at Sky because Watt and McCrory criticised him.

Since then the matches have been quite good, he's been willing to step it up but his momentum has been killed time after time, by injury to himself or opponents (how long did it take to make Magee and Dodson fights, for instance) and more recently, the pullouts of Denis Inkin. How weird that Joe would vacated his title only a week before Inkin, fitting perfectly into the plans of Universum.

Yes, Haye did choose the right opponents to get him ready for the top - particularly Gurov & Frago (both of whom could be deemed world class). I think that excellent bout with Pascal and the WBC belt has thankfully, at last, moved Froch upward.

I dont think anyone's claiming Carl's going to be one of the greats, but he can bring the terrestiral audience back to UK boxing, with real fights, and if he can get a Taylor or a Pavlik, and win, then he's had a successful & entertaining career.

autobarn,

I would agree with everything you said there.

Just to clear up a few mistakes about the "german based" super middleweight:
Universum/spotlight: Sartison, Perdomo, Wilaschek, Balzsay, Inkin

Steinforth: Stieglitz

Sauerland: Murat, Tsypko, Larsen, Haussler, Sanavia (not 100% sure) + he got options on Bute.

Arena: Beyer