BoxRec

DavidPayne wrote:McCrory and Nelson are lovely fellas and know more about boxing than I could dream of. But despite that.....they know who pays the bills and it isn't Fence Post PLC or Balanced and Informed Perspective & Son.

That may well be true ... but wouldn`t you much prefer to hear the commentators give their fair and honest opinion?

I remember Steve Bunce making an absolute tool of himself when he was 1st with the BBC on the Audley band-wagon .. he too must remember that sad stage of his career.

Terry D wrote:

ArtOfWar wrote:

Herol wrote:I know it happened a while ago, but I just can't believe that Fwank put Amir Khan in with an unbeaten knockout artist in a fight that wasn't even an eliminator. Surely there cannot be a worse piece of matchmaking ever?

It made no sense at all. In terms of the talent and marketability of Khan.

Surely it must have been the most costly bit of incompetence ever? Any others?

Not really, Prescott was unknown coming in and hadn't beaten anyone of note. He's still unproven now. It might just be that he caught Khan cold and isn't as good as the ko suggests.

Catching a fighter cold is when you literally walk out and knock the stuffing out of them with your first shot.

Prescott put out a jab, controlled the movement of Khan, and then blitzed the guy with a combination of shots.

I like Amir and hope he does well but he has since had a win over a guy who could not hurt him and suddenly he is going to easily beat the guy who wiped the floor with him?!

There was not the slightest sign in the Prescott fight that Amir can deal with the guy. His much improved defence still saw him take a firm jab to the face when rushing headlong in to finish Fagin. He was also wobbled by that Dane when rushing in for the finish.

Prescott would be a big favourite going into a rematch. Maybe Glen is towing the line in case they have to sell it on PPV sometime next year, or maybe Christmas came early in the McCrory household.

Wtf are you talking about. I didn't say anything about Khan beating Prescott in a rematch. This thread is about matchmaking. I was saying the Khan/Prescott matchmaking wasn't bad going in, because Prescott was completely unknown. Everyone expected Prescott to get blown out, not Khan.

Very good thread.

I would rather not try to embarass the matchmakers in boxing - because lets face it there has been a few "naughty" fights which simply should not take place - I do not blame the matchmaker or the promoter one little bit trying to get away with things here and there - I would rather put the blame on the relvant governing body who sanctions the fights in the first place!!!!

It seems time and time again the governing bodies whether it be the BBBofC or the world governing bodies have one rule for one and so on - what is clearly needed and this has been asked time and time again - MORE CONSISTENCY!!!!

Whoever let Bobby Gunn fight Enzo Macca, now that is incompetent matchmaking.

banjo wrote:Whoever let Bobby Gunn fight Enzo Macca, now that is incompetent matchmaking.

Why ?? - and let me explain what I am getting at!!!

Its the job of the matchmaker not only to get a fight to enhance the experience of his fighter but also to ensure he keeps his record and more importantly his status within the governing body intact or improve it - sometimes all that is needed to do that is a win!!!

More importantly its the job of the matchmaker to protect the investment of the promoter - boxing is a business and people who cannot get their head round that need to have a little re-think.

The blame for sh*t fights - the blame for outrageously matched fights for me is solely down to the Governing Body - whether that be the BBBofC or higher!!!

i am glad dean powell made that fight i won a lot of money

But it proved to be such great preperation for David Haye, Spud.

I know what you are saying re the job and that boxing is a business - and I am still stunned that Hatton vs Lazcano, Joe vs Manfredo did such good business... yes, I understand - but it used to be the days that people would go and see a "fight",not people go in the thousands, spend a fortune, to see a mismatch... and in the case of the Manfredo bill - a succession of mismatches.

But yes, if people still go in their thousands, then hell why not Enzo Mac vs Tony Booth, or Joe Calzaghe vs Stevie McGuire - if people are prepared to spend their hard earned just to see "the star" irrespective of their opponent, or the quality of the fight - then hell... why risk them against someone with a pulse.

Only problem it cause is if 1) the fighter starts believing his own hype 2) if you are using it as preperation for a fighter 3/4 levels above that.

I seem to remember that the vast majority of people on here, me included, thought that Khan would walk through Prescott - he had struggled with his last fight, had fought no-one and was unknown himself. But, hindsight is a wonderful thing as the saying goes.

stujones wrote:But it proved to be such great preperation for David Haye, Spud.

I know what you are saying re the job and that boxing is a business - and I am still stunned that Hatton vs Lazcano, Joe vs Manfredo did such good business... yes, I understand - but it used to be the days that people would go and see a "fight",not people go in the thousands, spend a fortune, to see a mismatch... and in the case of the Manfredo bill - a succession of mismatches.

But yes, if people still go in their thousands, then hell why not Enzo Mac vs Tony Booth, or Joe Calzaghe vs Stevie McGuire - if people are prepared to spend their hard earned just to see "the star" irrespective of their opponent, or the quality of the fight - then hell... why risk them against someone with a pulse.

Only problem it cause is if 1) the fighter starts believing his own hype 2) if you are using it as preperation for a fighter 3/4 levels above that.

Stu - I am like you - I cannot stand the mismatches - f*cking hate them!!! - a promoter who deserves a lot of credit for matching his fighters tough in the early years has to be Hennessy - IMO the way he has handled Froch throughout his career is fantastic - for instance some complained about Froch being in with the likes of Adamu - what a tough fight that ended up being and I have to say what fantastic preparation for fights like Pascal was - yep okay for me the Hague fight was outrageous and I simply cannot understand why the boxing board accepted that fight - but there again from a promotional angle I can fully understand why the fight was made - Froch was just making it big in Nottingham - he was getting the footie fans onside - who better than getting one of Forests rivals onside and that was the biggest ticket seller in and around Derby in Damon Hague!!! - there will be some who say that perhaps Hennessys tough matchmaking ended some of his fighters careers early - but hey there is the right to opinion.

You mention David Haye - yep going places quickly - will some argue too quickly thats down to opinion as well - personally its the fighters wishes and his ability to impact that desire on the promoter he is boxing for and David has done that right up until he started fighting for his own promotional company - outstanding attitude and has a real grasp on what his abilities are - whilst there are some fighters who think they have what it takes like Amir Khan - who quite frankly have got it wrong - that is where W arren has got it right - he knew not to rush Khan, but in my opinion Team Khan did not listen and kept chasing the world title without a realistic grasp on his ability and experience!!!

I used to complain like hell about mismatches and I will repeat I still hate them now - but whilst I disagree with them from a boxing is a business angle I fully understand why they happen!!!

Put this another way - I do not want to embarass one particular fighter - but I know for a fact his promotional firm knew he was going no further or certainly not as far as his fans thought he would - but that particular fighter sold ticket after ticket in the hundreds - so from a boxing is a business angle why they f*ck is the promoter going to be stupid enough to match him in a fight he knows he will lose - it makes perfect sense for the promoter to milk that particular fighter whilst he is still selling loads of tickets - but at the same time sneak in the hype b*llocks of this is a really tough fight - the fighters fans keep buying so and so on until the promoter has no further to go other than to put the fighter in a REAL tough fight.

I will repeat it is the BBBofC's responsibility to get decisions right - they should stop the mismatching - but from another angle - I have known for a fact some fights that could have happened that the board mysteriously turned down due to their newly found stance of getting tough but a small time later letting themselves down with more sh*t fights being allowed!!!!

How many times do we hear in football about consistency with referees - well I am saying about the BBBofC in boxing - I honestly believe with the appointment of Robert Smith at the board it is a fantastic time to get things right - I truly believe with time he will get things right in many aspects of the sport - I was delighted at his appointment and thought it long overdue - but it will take time!!!

tonyevs wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:McCrory and Nelson are lovely fellas and know more about boxing than I could dream of. But despite that.....they know who pays the bills and it isn't Fence Post PLC or Balanced and Informed Perspective & Son.

That may well be true ... but wouldn`t you much prefer to hear the commentators give their fair and honest opinion?

I remember Steve Bunce making an absolute tool of himself when he was 1st with the BBC on the Audley band-wagon .. he too must remember that sad stage of his career.

Well quite

Do you tell your boss what you really think of your company when asked?


I fornicating dont

As long as that paycheck keeps coming in, ill sit there being the biggest sycophant in the room, same for Nelson, McCrory, Goering et al


life, eh?

Spud wrote:Very good thread.

high praise indeed...

I thought Khan v Prescott at that stage of Khan's career was good matchmaking,what did you want,another 5-6 people to be bowled over by him?? Khan was forever saying he could be champ in 6 months to 1 year,they put him in with a nobody{which Prescott was} and HE got bowled over,we found out a lot of which we suspected that night.

Mowgli, I couldn't agree more. I was a little bit disappointed with Bredias being chosen for Khan when it was announced - in hindsight, it was perfect for me as I liked seeing him being KO'ed. I honestly didn't rate Prescott looking at his record - he had knocked out complete bums, and in his first step up in class, he had struggled with someone who Teddy Atlas had beating him. The only thing I was happy about was that Khan was fighting a natural, and possibly massive lightweight who had a positive knock out record, regardless of who is was against - that was a step up in my eyes for Khan, albeit it I would've preferred it to be against Murray or Thaxton, not some South American nobody had ever heard off, nevermind seen fight.

But did anyone actually think that picking Prescott was a mistake before the fight? I can't seem to remember anybody saying anything like that, but everyone's wise after the event. I just seem to remember people being of the same opinion of me.

Dioufy wrote:Mowgli, I couldn't agree more. I was a little bit disappointed with Bredias being chosen for Khan when it was announced - in hindsight, it was perfect for me as I liked seeing him being KO'ed. I honestly didn't rate Prescott looking at his record - he had knocked out complete bums, and in his first step up in class, he had struggled with someone who Teddy Atlas had beating him. The only thing I was happy about was that Khan was fighting a natural, and possibly massive lightweight who had a positive knock out record, regardless of who is was against - that was a step up in my eyes for Khan, albeit it I would've preferred it to be against Murray or Thaxton, not some South American nobody had ever heard off, nevermind seen fight.

But did anyone actually think that picking Prescott was a mistake before the fight? I can't seem to remember anybody saying anything like that, but everyone's wise after the event. I just seem to remember people being of the same opinion of me.

Which is why it was incompentent, should the promoter/matchmaker been wise AFTER the event - their job is to be wise before it.

The promotor isn't a clairvoyant. If Yakubu Amidi had wasted Ricky Burns in a round then that would've been deemed incompetent after it had happened. I think people need to remember than Khan was 1/20 to beat Prescott with Sky. I class incompetemt as Walker/Karmazin, Pavlik/Lockettt and Cotto/Jennings - the difference being that we all know/knew deep down that one person was going to be put in danger all for the sake of money. To me that is the epitome of incompetency in boxing.

Did you predict that Khan would've been blown away in a round, or even knocked out against Prescott, mate?

No, but I am not a boxing matchmaker who is supposed to have scouted a fighter. One thing is that when I saw the guy on the pads I said "oh oh, this guy can handle himself". I didn't know if he had chin, stamina, head movement and lots of things - but I could see he had handspeed and power. There was geniune shock on Warren's face when he was at the weigh in and people were amazed by his physique, and Warren knew he had a punchers physique and wasn't here to make up the numbers.

In hindsight, Khan was put in danger for the sake of little money - the fight bombed at the box office with Khan's reputation in tatters - at least Khan vs someone like Kastidis would have done well for a PPV.

Yes, hindisght is a wonderful thing - but a promoter/matchmaker shouldn't have hindsight - they should know everything they need to know about their fighter and their opponent, if not then they are being neglitable.

Whether you, I or whoever looked at Prescott records and condemmed the match up based on Prescott being a nobody, who has beaten nobody (which we all did), is neither here nor there. We don't get paid to find out as much as possible as a fighter BEFORE they fight... and if you don't know, and a guy has that kind of record - then he shouldn't be approached.

Yes, those fighters you mentioned are horrible mis matches, but in someways - better Jennings loses to Cotto making a fortune and having a chance to fight for the title - than to lose to Kevin Anderson in front of 12 people at a Leisure Centre somewhere.

Karmazin was a little more incompentent as I said, I think Hennesey bizarrely hadn't done his work on Karmazin and saw him poor EBU champion, rather than a world class opperator.

If promotors knew what would happened all the time when they put their fighters in with other fighters then boxing would be a crappy sport. It's the notion of somewhat unpredictability that brings people to watch this sport - I fail to see how anyone can know what will happen all the time, whether they "should" or not. People aren't always correct about their initial feelings - it doesn't matter to me whether Powell or Rubio chose Prescott because on paper and in the brief clips of him, he looked like a poor man's Lacy or Martinez. But like I say, people get things wrong - I certainly made a piss-poor prognosis on Prescott's ability, and I can understand why his matchmakers did as well. Prescott was better than we all thought, end of story really.

I watched two fights of Prescott when he was announced as Khan's next opponent too - his looked slow as hell and looked like he had the potential to be troubled heavily by Khan's jab alone. He didn't look much at all, but no one knew how well he would do.

I know no one that predicted a Khan loss like that. It's just like saying that George Bush should've prevented 9/11 because he "should" do. I know that's a crap analogy but unexpected things do happen in life. All I'm saying is that I think incompetency is when you put a boxer's health a risk when he has little or no chance of victory. Khan was massive favourite and no one predicted what would happen. I didn't, you didn't, and I don't expect that Sports Network did as well. Perhaps you can call it incompetent to put him in against an unknown, but every boxer goes in against an unknown at some point - Khan was just unlucky that the guy nearly killed him. I don't blame Sports Network, and I definitely, in my opinion, don't call it negligence. But like we have said, hindsight is a sexual thing.

And shock on Warren's face at the weigh-in? I saw differently, mate. I saw a man who was giggling to himself and constantly looking at Prescott's skinny body. I was there, so I saw what he was like - he didn't seem shocked to me at all.

McNeeley-Tyson

HomicideHenry wrote:McNeeley-Tyson

uh huh

make about $100,000,000



next..........

Michael Jackson and Lisa-Marie Presley. Painful to watch.

HomicideHenry wrote:McNeeley-Tyson

As this wasn't technically a match I don't think it should qualify as incompetent matchmaking

Dioufy wrote:The promotor isn't a clairvoyant. If Yakubu Amidi had wasted Ricky Burns in a round then that would've been deemed incompetent after it had happened. I think people need to remember than Khan was 1/20 to beat Prescott with Sky. I class incompetemt as Walker/Karmazin, Pavlik/Lockettt and Cotto/Jennings - the difference being that we all know/knew deep down that one person was going to be put in danger all for the sake of money. To me that is the epitome of incompetency in boxing.

Did you predict that Khan would've been blown away in a round, or even knocked out against Prescott, mate?

Spot on mate.


Hindsight has made alot of people experts(in their own minds anyway ) .. Prescott didn`t look anything special in the youtube clips I`d watched ... very,very crude and basic..

How was Franky/anybody to know Prescott carried enough to wobble Khan to his boots with a jab? .. I can`t think of another boxer who had that ability against an opponent they were brought into lose against.

tonyevs wrote:

Dioufy wrote:The promotor isn't a clairvoyant. If Yakubu Amidi had wasted Ricky Burns in a round then that would've been deemed incompetent after it had happened. I think people need to remember than Khan was 1/20 to beat Prescott with Sky. I class incompetemt as Walker/Karmazin, Pavlik/Lockettt and Cotto/Jennings - the difference being that we all know/knew deep down that one person was going to be put in danger all for the sake of money. To me that is the epitome of incompetency in boxing.

Did you predict that Khan would've been blown away in a round, or even knocked out against Prescott, mate?

Spot on mate.


Hindsight has made alot of people experts(in their own minds anyway ) .. Prescott didn`t look anything special in the youtube clips I`d watched ... very,very crude and basic..

How was Franky/anybody to know Prescott carried enough to wobble Khan to his boots with a jab? .. I can`t think of another boxer who had that ability against an opponent they were brought into lose against.

That's the point though. they couldn't really know, as they had such little knowledge. They weren't forced to do it, and this fight didn't have much upside to it. They could have found a known quantity.

Carbo wrote:Michael Jackson and Lisa-Marie Presley. Painful to watch.

Clff Richard & Sue Barker

MightyWarrior wrote:Marvis Frazier v Larry Holmes.
Then Mike Tyson, just incase he didn't get the message first time round.

I agree to an extent, but Marvis got $750,000 to fight Larry and $400,000 to fight Tyson.

Watched the Holmes fight on youtube last night. Holmes had all the tools and then some. What a great fighter he was.

What about Paul Hodkinson v Gregorio Vargas