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Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 18:22
by ApolloCreed
Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres and cursing himself (and his manager) for not having the balls to fight either Dunne or Cordoba.
Meanwhile, old Frank will have his fortune off the back of the Dazzler! No wonder he's so smug on here.
Either way, one nil to Dunne and Peters - laugh it off all you like Frankie boy but Dunne's win is the equivalent of two fingers to you and your bin man.

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 18:51
by brian13
FtmPress wrote:
He will if they pick the wrong first Defence, I think some of you guys are getting carried away on here with Dunnes win. It was a go win and he did very well but he not the second coming. You might find out that he might be the same as nicky cook was, Lost in his first defence, So you Irish boys do not get to carried away i hate to see growing man cry.Plus Monroe would beat Dunne everyday of the week. All round he to big and strong for him.
Nicky Cook's opponent was the mandatory challenger so nothing could have been done in that situation.
Also being one of a very few here that said Dunne would beat Munroe before he fought Cordoba, Dunne would beat Munroe badly and I hope you make this fight happen because I want to see the look on your face after Munroe's trainers pull him out of the fight.
Since when is the fight along time away, you were the one that called Dunne out after Munroe fought Martyrosen not Munroe or what ever his second name is but you refused to come to Dublin to fight Dublin and what happened Munroe fought that Italian in DCU, which is where.......... Dublin . This fight aint happening because of some stupid reason probably because Frank Maloney is scared to bring a fighter into another ones back yard and have Munroe fighting in front of 10,000 people in the 02 but he prefers Munroe fighting in front of 500 people in the Harvey Hadden Leisure Centre
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 19:04
by slapbangwhallop
DG. wrote:sligobhoy67 wrote:mark thompson wrote:Can't believe i agree with DG on this matter, I was very impressed with Dunne i had him maybe 2-3 rounds down before the KO's but was thinking if it reached the final bell i would not have been surprised no matter who they declared the winner as it was a close well matched fight.
But where have all these Dunne fans crawled from all of a sudden ? I am maybe biased towards Munroe as he's a local fighter but the Dunne fans must wear blinkers, calling Munroe a limited fighter when Dunne was knocked out by a very one dimensional fighter in the way of Martinez, theres only one way to calm the Irish boys (who have just had there best ever weekend in sport) is to get Munroe v Dunne on in the summer. I would be extremely confident of a Munroe UD then lets here what Slingoboy, Knowsitall and moorser have to say ?
dont be marking be down as a Dunne nuthugger - I tipped Cordoba to win and put money on it. I just think BD deserves praise for his achievement, it was an awesome fight and the atomosphere was incredible - I've never seen anything like it before.
DG was acting like a wank on a few threads and couldnt just say well done, instead he posted pics of Kiko and Bernard - zero class.
Thats why I suggested he should STFU.
I have never disrespected Munroe ever, I have had nothing but praise for him - however, I think the guy took a gamble not taking the biggest money fight of his career against Bernard when he could of done and now has possibly missed the boat.
Shut up, Fool!
I gave his dues, but you got you panties got in a twist.

I didnt have any panties in a twist - I just thoght it was about time that you STFU because I think everyone had heard enough of your shit!
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 20:46
by DG.
sligobhoy67 wrote:
I didnt have any panties in a twist - I just thoght it was about time that you STFU because I think everyone had heard enough of your shit!
Sing it Boxrec...
'He's an internet Gangster'
Jackass.
So, you DO wear panties?

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 20:54
by DG.
ApolloCreed wrote:
Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres
And you find that funny, why? Its a honest job.
What wil you be doing? What have you ever done?
All these idoipt Dunne fans, where were you when MARTINZ tumped him down?
Dunne did a great job, but he has some real tosspots for fans..You and Sligitboy!

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 21:07
by slapbangwhallop
DG. wrote:sligobhoy67 wrote:
I didnt have any panties in a twist - I just thoght it was about time that you STFU because I think everyone had heard enough of your shit!
Sing it Boxrec...
'He's an internet Gangster'
Jackass.
So, you DO wear panties?

hilarious! havent you got school or something?
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 21:41
by knowitall
DG. wrote:ApolloCreed wrote:
Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres
And you find that funny, why? Its a honest job.
What wil you be doing? What have you ever done?
All these idoipt Dunne fans, where were you when MARTINZ tumped him down?
Dunne did a great job, but he has some real tosspots for fans..You and Sligitboy!

Don't forget who started this crap, find one post with a Dunne fan slating Munroe before Maloney started all this, saying Dunne was finished and going onto Bunce's show slagging off Brian Peters.
If Munroe was fighting Cordoba do you think us Irish fans would give a shit? do you think we would be on forums saying he is going to get his ass kicked?
It seems like you Brits get more enjoyment out of criticizing boxers you do not like, than you do out of supporting those you do like!
Edit : Ok not all Brits but a lot all the same!
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 23 Mar 2009, 22:13
by ApolloCreed
I wouldn't go that far, this fella is a Wind Up Merchant, the vast majority of British boxing fans on here come across as sound.
And you find that funny, why? Its a honest job.
I find the comparison between one guy making a fortune and the fella who wronged him sweeping the streets BLOODY hilarious actually!!!
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 04:06
by DG.
knowitall wrote:DG. wrote:ApolloCreed wrote:
Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres
And you find that funny, why? Its a honest job.
What wil you be doing? What have you ever done?
All these idoipt Dunne fans, where were you when MARTINZ tumped him down?
Dunne did a great job, but he has some real tosspots for fans..You and Sligitboy!

Don't forget who started this crap, find one post with a Dunne fan slating Munroe before Maloney started all this, saying Dunne was finished and going onto Bunce's show slagging off Brian Peters.
If Munroe was fighting Cordoba do you think us Irish fans would give a shit? do you think we would be on forums saying he is going to get his ass kicked?
It seems like you Brits get more enjoyment out of criticizing boxers you do not like, than you do out of supporting those you do like!
Edit : Ok not all Brits but a lot all the same!
Figter are supported and criticised in equal measure.
Dunne hardly gets a mention in these boards....until now.
![[icon_e_biggrin.gif] :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 04:08
by DG.
ApolloCreed wrote:I wouldn't go that far, this fella is a Wind Up Merchant, the vast majority of British boxing fans on here come across as sound.
And you find that funny, why? Its a honest job.
I find the comparison between one guy making a fortune and the fella who wronged him sweeping the streets BLOODY hilarious actually!!!
Wind up merchant?
Well, you obviously have no idea how hard it is for a fighter to make a loving, if you did you would not laugh.
Dunnes popularity exceeds his talent.
And he is a bin man., last I looked the ROAD SWEEPERS sweeped the street.
What do you do for a living?
![[icon_e_biggrin.gif] :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 09:37
by mark thompson
DG. wrote:ApolloCreed wrote:I wouldn't go that far, this fella is a Wind Up Merchant, the vast majority of British boxing fans on here come across as sound.
And you find that funny, why? Its a honest job.
I find the comparison between one guy making a fortune and the fella who wronged him sweeping the streets BLOODY hilarious actually!!!
Wind up merchant?
Well, you obviously have no idea how hard it is for a fighter to make a loving, if you did you would not laugh.
Dunnes popularity exceeds his talent.
And he is a bin man., last I looked the ROAD SWEEPERS sweeped the street.
What do you do for a living?
![[icon_e_biggrin.gif] :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
Go DG !!! I think Munroe does the bins more of a way of keeping fit than relying on it for a living, last time i saw him he looked pretty well off not your usual bin man

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 09:56
by Autobarn
ApolloCreed wrote:Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres and cursing himself (and his manager) for not having the balls to fight either Dunne or Cordoba.
Meanwhile, old Frank will have his fortune off the back of the Dazzler! No wonder he's so smug on here.
Either way, one nil to Dunne and Peters - laugh it off all you like Frankie boy but Dunne's win is the equivalent of two fingers to you and your bin man.

very disrespectful.
two fights ago dunne was bleeding like a stuck pig vs some guy who was blown out by feather fisted (but good) bantam champ Haegawa. dunne didn't have any kind of upper hand then, when many felt he should have fought munroe. when the munroe fight was relevant.
munroe took the fight against martinez -that took some balls, no?
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 10:37
by DG.
Autobarn wrote:ApolloCreed wrote:Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres and cursing himself (and his manager) for not having the balls to fight either Dunne or Cordoba.
Meanwhile, old Frank will have his fortune off the back of the Dazzler! No wonder he's so smug on here.
Either way, one nil to Dunne and Peters - laugh it off all you like Frankie boy but Dunne's win is the equivalent of two fingers to you and your bin man.

very disrespectful.
two fights ago dunne was bleeding like a stuck pig vs some guy who was blown out by feather fisted (but good) bantam champ Haegawa. dunne didn't have any kind of upper hand then, when many felt he should have fought munroe. when the munroe fight was relevant.
munroe took the fight against martinez -that took some balls, no?
Dunne will again be looking up a the ring lights and when he does, bwooooy, I am going to give it to Slygitboy and the other 2 Dunne Fans.
Dunne is weak of chin.
Well done Berenard Dunne - just stay away from Caballero, imo.
The 3 Dunne fans crack me up.
Pathetic fekkers.

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 10:38
by slapbangwhallop
Autobarn wrote:ApolloCreed wrote:Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres and cursing himself (and his manager) for not having the balls to fight either Dunne or Cordoba.
Meanwhile, old Frank will have his fortune off the back of the Dazzler! No wonder he's so smug on here.
Either way, one nil to Dunne and Peters - laugh it off all you like Frankie boy but Dunne's win is the equivalent of two fingers to you and your bin man.

very disrespectful.
two fights ago dunne was bleeding like a stuck pig vs some guy who was blown out by feather fisted (but good) bantam champ Haegawa. dunne didn't have any kind of upper hand then, when many felt he should have fought munroe. when the munroe fight was relevant.
munroe took the fight against martinez -that took some balls, no?
You are right, it took balls to fight Kiko after seeing what he did to Bernard - and Rendall exposed him not just once but twice! Hats off.
I think you will find that Rendall is very popular amongest Irish fight fans, sure whats not to like - tasty fighter, down to earth, working class man doing it for the lads! Frank has cultivated a cracking image for him and built a nice wee army of florecent jacketed supporters. The reason Rendall got boo'd was not because of anything he did but what Frank has done - noses were out of joint after Franks disparaging comments.
Frank gambled - Frank lost (this time) - lets see where we go from here.
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 10:40
by DG.
mark thompson wrote:
Go DG !!! I think Munroe does the bins more of a way of keeping fit than relying on it for a living, last time i saw him he looked pretty well off not your usual bin man

We still do not know what ApoopantsGreed does for a living.
I do not thnk Munroe is the most talented fighter out there, but he can beat Dunne.
The 3 Dunne Fans..

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 10:41
by slapbangwhallop
DG. wrote:Autobarn wrote:ApolloCreed wrote:Bernard Dunne is goign to be a rich man in two years time, by which time Rendall Munroe will still be a bin man, fighting in leisure centres and cursing himself (and his manager) for not having the balls to fight either Dunne or Cordoba.
Meanwhile, old Frank will have his fortune off the back of the Dazzler! No wonder he's so smug on here.
Either way, one nil to Dunne and Peters - laugh it off all you like Frankie boy but Dunne's win is the equivalent of two fingers to you and your bin man.

very disrespectful.
two fights ago dunne was bleeding like a stuck pig vs some guy who was blown out by feather fisted (but good) bantam champ Haegawa. dunne didn't have any kind of upper hand then, when many felt he should have fought munroe. when the munroe fight was relevant.
munroe took the fight against martinez -that took some balls, no?
Dunne will again be looking up a the ring lights and when he does, bwooooy, I am going to give it to Slygitboy and the other 2 Dunne Fans.
Dunne is weak of chin.
Well done Berenard Dunne - just stay away from Caballero, imo.
The 3 Dunne fans crack me up.
Pathetic fekkers.

you are embarassing and childish. You are possibly the only person on the planet that has me down as a "Dunne fan" - its funny because fans on an Irish site think I am a Dunne hater!
I think everyone can see from your comments that you are the only one that it pathetic - you have no respect for fellow posters or any fighters.
Hopefully half term will be over soon and you will be back playing in the school yard next week!
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 10:56
by DG.
sligobhoy67 wrote:
you are embarassing and childish. You are possibly the only person on the planet that has me down as a "Dunne fan" - its funny because fans on an Irish site think I am a Dunne hater!
I think everyone can see from your comments that you are the only one that it pathetic - you have no respect for fellow posters or any fighters.
Hopefully half term will be over soon and you will be back playing in the school yard next week!
No respect for fellow posters of fighters? No - just no respect for you.
What do you have against the word 'is'?

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 13:01
by knowitall
Ok let's settle this once and for all, without mentioning the Martinez comparison thing which is illogical, tell me how Munroe would beat Dunne.
I have seen both fighters live, Dunne is better technically, hits harder, is a better mover and has quicker handspeed.
I come from a family of boxers and have been boxing for 5 years so I know what I am talking about.
If you are going to disagree with this, give me examples of where Munroe shows he is better than Dunne in any of these areas.
Dunne has not got the best chin but it is not half as bad as is made out, and it is known that Munroe is not a big hitter.
Munroe tries to push guys back and relies too much on the body shots, he is not as accurate as Dunne and he is easy to hit at times, such as against Matirosyan and Trotta. He was hurt in the Matirosyan fight even though he is not a big puncher so he can be wobbled.
In the same fight he was cautioned for pushing and he will not get away with that kind of bullying tactics in a fight with Dunne.
I am not trying to start an argument, I just want to know why you guys are so sure of a Munroe win when it is not so clear cut.
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 13:57
by mark thompson
knowitall wrote:Ok let's settle this once and for all, without mentioning the Martinez comparison thing which is illogical, tell me how Munroe would beat Dunne.
I have seen both fighters live, Dunne is better technically, hits harder, is a better mover and has quicker handspeed.
I come from a family of boxers and have been boxing for 5 years so I know what I am talking about.
If you are going to disagree with this, give me examples of where Munroe shows he is better than Dunne in any of these areas.
Dunne has not got the best chin but it is not half as bad as is made out, and it is known that Munroe is not a big hitter.
Munroe tries to push guys back and relies too much on the body shots, he is not as accurate as Dunne and he is easy to hit at times, such as against Matirosyan and Trotta. He was hurt in the Matirosyan fight even though he is not a big puncher so he can be wobbled.
In the same fight he was cautioned for pushing and he will not get away with that kind of bullying tactics in a fight with Dunne.
I am not trying to start an argument, I just want to know why you guys are so sure of a Munroe win when it is not so clear cut.
1st of all no way has Dunne got faster hands than Munroe, and at the end of the day its all about opinions and everyone is entitled to 1, my opinion is Munroe would have to much for Dunne in the second half of the fight and win on points, but my opinion doesn't count for alot as does none of these new Dunne fans.
Lets start another 10 threads on the subject and see if we all change our minds about the possible outcome of a possible fight if they meet and theres a winner then we can start the bragging rights

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 14:03
by slapbangwhallop
mark thompson wrote:knowitall wrote:Ok let's settle this once and for all, without mentioning the Martinez comparison thing which is illogical, tell me how Munroe would beat Dunne.
I have seen both fighters live, Dunne is better technically, hits harder, is a better mover and has quicker handspeed.
I come from a family of boxers and have been boxing for 5 years so I know what I am talking about.
If you are going to disagree with this, give me examples of where Munroe shows he is better than Dunne in any of these areas.
Dunne has not got the best chin but it is not half as bad as is made out, and it is known that Munroe is not a big hitter.
Munroe tries to push guys back and relies too much on the body shots, he is not as accurate as Dunne and he is easy to hit at times, such as against Matirosyan and Trotta. He was hurt in the Matirosyan fight even though he is not a big puncher so he can be wobbled.
In the same fight he was cautioned for pushing and he will not get away with that kind of bullying tactics in a fight with Dunne.
I am not trying to start an argument, I just want to know why you guys are so sure of a Munroe win when it is not so clear cut.
1st of all no way has Dunne got faster hands than Munroe, and at the end of the day its all about opinions and everyone is entitled to 1, my opinion is Munroe would have to much for Dunne in the second half of the fight and win on points, but my opinion doesn't count for alot as does none of these new Dunne fans.
Lets start another 10 threads on the subject and see if we all change our minds about the possible outcome of a possible fight if they meet and theres a winner then we can start the bragging rights

Well said. DG take note - that is what an intelligent reply looks like.
Although I have been at a number of Dunne fights I wouldnt class myself as a Dunne "fan" although the fight on the weekend has given me a new found admiration and affection for him.
As I have said I think Dunnes would shade in on points but I wouldnt be shocked, like I was when Dunne beat Cordoba, if Munroe came out the victor!

Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 14:17
by mark thompson
sligobhoy67 wrote:mark thompson wrote:knowitall wrote:Ok let's settle this once and for all, without mentioning the Martinez comparison thing which is illogical, tell me how Munroe would beat Dunne.
I have seen both fighters live, Dunne is better technically, hits harder, is a better mover and has quicker handspeed.
I come from a family of boxers and have been boxing for 5 years so I know what I am talking about.
If you are going to disagree with this, give me examples of where Munroe shows he is better than Dunne in any of these areas.
Dunne has not got the best chin but it is not half as bad as is made out, and it is known that Munroe is not a big hitter.
Munroe tries to push guys back and relies too much on the body shots, he is not as accurate as Dunne and he is easy to hit at times, such as against Matirosyan and Trotta. He was hurt in the Matirosyan fight even though he is not a big puncher so he can be wobbled.
In the same fight he was cautioned for pushing and he will not get away with that kind of bullying tactics in a fight with Dunne.
I am not trying to start an argument, I just want to know why you guys are so sure of a Munroe win when it is not so clear cut.
1st of all no way has Dunne got faster hands than Munroe, and at the end of the day its all about opinions and everyone is entitled to 1, my opinion is Munroe would have to much for Dunne in the second half of the fight and win on points, but my opinion doesn't count for alot as does none of these new Dunne fans.
Lets start another 10 threads on the subject and see if we all change our minds about the possible outcome of a possible fight if they meet and theres a winner then we can start the bragging rights

Well said. DG take note - that is what an intelligent reply looks like.
Although I have been at a number of Dunne fights I wouldnt class myself as a Dunne "fan" although the fight on the weekend has given me a new found admiration and affection for him.
As I have said I think Dunnes would shade in on points but I wouldnt be shocked, like I was when Dunne beat Cordoba, if Munroe came out the victor!


that settles it then ! I think most people with a brain know that if the fight ever happens it will be a very close and evenly matched fight
Im a huge Munroe fan as i bet are the fans of Dunne so its understandable that you are going to favour your man, but the idiots who post on here that Dunne should tell Munroe to get fecked now, are surely not real boxing fans, who would not want to watch this fight ??? It would be a better event than half the shit that is pay per view.
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 14:23
by slapbangwhallop
mark thompson wrote:sligobhoy67 wrote:mark thompson wrote:
1st of all no way has Dunne got faster hands than Munroe, and at the end of the day its all about opinions and everyone is entitled to 1, my opinion is Munroe would have to much for Dunne in the second half of the fight and win on points, but my opinion doesn't count for alot as does none of these new Dunne fans.
Lets start another 10 threads on the subject and see if we all change our minds about the possible outcome of a possible fight if they meet and theres a winner then we can start the bragging rights

Well said. DG take note - that is what an intelligent reply looks like.
Although I have been at a number of Dunne fights I wouldnt class myself as a Dunne "fan" although the fight on the weekend has given me a new found admiration and affection for him.
As I have said I think Dunnes would shade in on points but I wouldnt be shocked, like I was when Dunne beat Cordoba, if Munroe came out the victor!


that settles it then ! I think most people with a brain know that if the fight ever happens it will be a very close and evenly matched fight
Im a huge Munroe fan as i bet are the fans of Dunne so its understandable that you are going to favour your man, but the idiots who post on here that Dunne should tell Munroe to get fecked now, are surely not real boxing fans, who would not want to watch this fight ??? It would be a better event than half the shit that is pay per view.
I have family in Leicester and I've been down to a Munroe fight and enjoyed his fans as well.
However, although I do want to see Dunne and Munroe get it on I can also understand where guys are coming from when they say that Dunne should do to Munroe what Hatton did to Witter - i.e. ignore him even if it is the fight that we all want to see.
Dunne wanted a fight with Munroe when Dunne had no belt but Maloney was playin hard ball and in the run up to the Cordoba fight Maloney has been pretty cutting with regards his comments about Dunne and Peters and I dont think that that will be forgotten easily but a lot of boxing fans in Ireland.
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 14:27
by Asterix
It think Dunne vs Munroe would be very competitive until the later rounds, where one of them would break away. My money is on Dunne at the moment.
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 14:31
by mark thompson
Yeah but thats just promoters talking isn't it ? I mean look at Hennesy with Tyson Fury, its just a hype job. I think Maloney saw Dunne as a threat that Munroe didnt need to take at the time, he could make a couple of fairly easy money voluntary's to earn his guy a good few quid before the big threat of the Martinez rematch, now Munroe has got through them fights he needs to be fighting people of at least the standard of Martinez, and with Dunne winning he is maybe entitled to a couple of so called gimme's, but then the fight is a must for me whether Dunne loses his belt in the meantime or not
Wheres your family live then Slingo ?
Re: Dunne Vs Munroe??
Posted: 24 Mar 2009, 14:38
by slapbangwhallop
mark thompson wrote:Yeah but thats just promoters talking isn't it ? I mean look at Hennesy with Tyson Fury, its just a hype job. I think Maloney saw Dunne as a threat that Munroe didnt need to take at the time, he could make a couple of fairly easy money voluntary's to earn his guy a good few quid before the big threat of the Martinez rematch, now Munroe has got through them fights he needs to be fighting people of at least the standard of Martinez, and with Dunne winning he is maybe entitled to a couple of so called gimme's, but then the fight is a must for me whether Dunne loses his belt in the meantime or not
Wheres your family live then Slingo ?
Desford.
I know its just promoters talk but I think that Moloney was unecessarily harsh - anyway, it didnt really bother me but I know it annoyed others - those kind of antics arent really the Irish way if you know what I mean.
I think Dunne would paste Martinez in a rematch - I genuinely do - I always did and this was before his display on the weekend.
Dunne wont have much chance to coin it in from "easy voluntaries" because he has to face the mandatory challenger in 7 months!