Sonny Liston (1963) vs. current HWs ?

[Enlightened-One]

The 1963 version of Sonny Liston was allegedly 33½ years of age and had competed in 36 bouts.

He had lost one of them and had gone the distance eleven times. He wasn't as heavy-handed as many believe him to be.

Tell the whole story.

The facts I've conveyed are true.

And you've only quoted a small extract from my entire post. Ironically, not “telling the whole story.”

After he got out of prison in 1958 he went on a 21-0 run with 19 knockouts.

And the opponents he fought during those 21 bouts (at the time they faced him) were the physical equivalents of small modern-day cruiserweights that had failed to win a combined total of 241 fights.

The majority of his opponents that participated in those 21 bouts weren’t very good (failing to win an average of 27% of their bouts).

During his lone loss in that time he damaged Leotis Martin so badly that he would never be able to fight again.

You’re embellishing the situation. Ironically, you are not “telling the whole story.”

Leotis Martin was forced to retire due to a detached retina, which can happen to any fighter.

And many people believe he actually suffered that injury a couple of months prior to the Liston bout, when he fought Wendell Newton.

Simply put, Leotis Martin wasn’t some sort of victim against Sonny Liston.

He was comfortable. He wasn’t retreating. He owned the winning momentum. He was busier. He wore down Liston. He pummelled Liston’s face, badly disfiguring it. And he KO’d Liston, leaving Sonny being counted out face first on the canvas.

And you can’t pretend that didn’t happen.

If you don't believe me, watch the fight yourself and tell me what your eyeballs see!

[oogiebe]

You're asking Mr. Cherry Picker to tell the whole story!

Which piece of information have I conveyed that you feel was either factually-inaccurate or grossly misleading?

You won't answer that simple question, because you can't. So instead, you'll attempt to be derogatory, since you feel that undermining the arguer will encourage others to dismiss or ignore the facts they've articulated.

That's always been your strategy. And that approach makes me laugh and is also deeply flattering.

[Enlightened-One]

You're asking Mr. Cherry Picker to tell the whole story!

Which piece of information have I conveyed that you feel was either factually-inaccurate or grossly misleading?

You won't answer that simple question, because you can't. So instead, you'll attempt to be derogatory, since you feel that undermining the arguer will encourage others to dismiss or ignore the facts they've articulated.

That's always been your strategy. And that approach makes me laugh and is also deeply flattering.

You still won't answer that rather simple question, will you?

Thanks for proving my point!

[Bandog]

The 1963 version of Sonny Liston was allegedly 33½ years of age and had competed in 36 bouts.

He had lost one of them and had gone the distance eleven times. He wasn't as heavy-handed as many believe him to be.

The average weight of Sonny’s opponents for the first 36 bouts of his career was 196lbs, which is much smaller than today’s cruiserweights (who all have to dehydrate in order to make weight).

Liston’s average weight during the same period was only 207lbs and he wasn’t particularly well-muscled or defined either.

Sonny’s jab was excellent, but his hand-speed, head movement, work-rate and foot work weren’t. He was a tough slugger that got the job done.

Apart from Oscar Rivas, I can’t name a single modern-day world-rated heavyweight fighter that is shorter than the 1963 version of Sonny Liston.

Even Oleksandr Usyk and Deontay Wilder outweigh Sonny Liston, with both guys being much taller than the American all-timer.

Sonny received a lot of hype during his own era, but he wasn’t particularly accomplished, other than his victories over the undersized Floyd Patterson.

He deserves his place in the IBHoF, due to his historical contribution to the sport of boxing, since his story/legend is fascinating, but unfortunately nostalgia compels many people to believe he was capable of things we never actually saw him do inside the ring.

Liston definitely loses to the majority of today’s (mathematical average) 6’4” 245lbs world-rated behemoths.

About 1/2 of your "facts" are stupid to even mention, to the point of being redundant about Liston's size. Anyone with half a boxing brain knows virtually 99% were smaller 40-50-60+ years ago, as were all athletes in combat Sports.

I'll go with the experts, including Ring magazine that rank Liston in the top 10 heavys of all time. Your continued denigration of boxers is typical of you, but guess what, you are wrong again. Liston was a great champion.

[Enlightened-One]

About 1/2 of your "facts" are stupid to even mention, to the point of being redundant about Liston's size. Anyone with half a boxing brain knows virtually 99% were smaller 40-50-60+ years ago, as were all athletes in combat Sports.

So are you admitting the information I conveyed was factually-accurate and not misleading?

The topic of this thread relates to the 1963 iteration of Sonny Liston versus current heavyweights.

So do you seriously believe that Liston’s general lack of size (i.e. eight inches shorter and 70lbs lighter than Tyson Fury) would have no bearing against today’s best big men

I'll go with the experts, including Ring magazine that rank Liston in the top 10 heavys of all time. Liston was a great champion.

A gentle reminder, Sonny Liston only performed one successful defence of his world heavyweight title, which was against Floyd Patterson (an opponent the size of a modern-day rehydrated 175lb-er).

[oogiebe]

About 1/2 of your "facts" are stupid to even mention, to the point of being redundant about Liston's size. Anyone with half a boxing brain knows virtually 99% were smaller 40-50-60+ years ago, as were all athletes in combat Sports.

So are you admitting the information I conveyed was factually-accurate and not misleading?

I'll go with the experts, including Ring magazine that rank Liston in the top 10 heavys of all time. Liston was a great champion.

A gentle reminder, Sonny Liston only performed one successful defence of his world heavyweight title, which was against Floyd Patterson (an opponent the size of a modern-day rehydrated 175lb-er).

we all admit to you that you are a k&nt. That is all.

[oogiebe]

Which piece of information have I conveyed that you feel was either factually-inaccurate or grossly misleading?

You won't answer that simple question, because you can't. So instead, you'll attempt to be derogatory, since you feel that undermining the arguer will encourage others to dismiss or ignore the facts they've articulated.

That's always been your strategy. And that approach makes me laugh and is also deeply flattering.

You still won't answer that rather simple question, will you?

Thanks for proving my point!

No no, kind sir. Thanks for proving mine.

[adislav123]

You still won't answer that rather simple question, will you?

Thanks for proving my point!

No no, kind sir. Thanks for proving mine.

the grandmaster of irrefutable research left any grounds to reason with him long long time ago.

u really just assist him in his endless masturbatory exercises beyond all sanity.

[oogiebe]

You still won't answer that rather simple question, will you?

Thanks for proving my point!

No no, kind sir. Thanks for proving mine.

the grandmaster of irrefutable research left any grounds to reason with him long long time ago.

u really just assist him in his endless masturbatory exercises beyond all sanity.

EO is a toy to be played with.

[Bandog]

No no, kind sir. Thanks for proving mine.

the grandmaster of irrefutable research left any grounds to reason with him long long time ago.

u really just assist him in his endless masturbatory exercises beyond all sanity.

EO is a toy to be played with.

[Ascended]

[media][/media]

Son and his whole era looks very basic and flawed as the video shows, which clearly guys never have seen other era's in full apparently, or don't compare as I have here, what was the basis for ever picking Son when he never even fought guys as advanced as the even the no names who were way more advanced in the 80s? see how it doesn't make any sense picking him people online aren't very sane ,

I just never have understood picking obviously very outdated people as if the people they fought were as advanced when they clearly weren't, as if video doesn't exist showing they weren't as advanced,very odd

It's fact liston best win was a lhw floyd, I could've put a video of basically a lhw mercer faced who was way more advanced than Floyd was and how Mercer destroyed him way easier than Liston did Floyd, see how this doesn't make any sense as I said at all, people clearly pick son from legend status alone, he never fought guys as advanced as even the average guy in 80s-90s, let alone mid carders

[Cap]

Yeah "advanced" with two extra arms. a PHD in PE and telekinetic abilities......

[oogiebe]

Yeah "advanced" with two extra arms. a PHD in PE and telekinetic abilities......