Roco wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 20:08
Chisora thought he won that?
That’s what he would say tho.
I remember when Chisora tried raising his hands after the bell against Pulev and Pulev laughed in his face.
Although, that ended up being a dodgy split decision with one judge giving it to Chisora.
Yh. A lot of boxers do raise their hands even though they know they lost. Or some just do it because their opponent does it.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 01 Nov 2020, 19:09
by joshj909
MightyWarrior wrote: ↑01 Nov 2020, 16:02
Magnificently bad commentary from Adam Smith as ever, proving how clueless he is by cheerleading Usyk for 7 rounds ( marvellous isn’t he Matt? ) Then Bellew comes on between rounds saying Dell boy is actually doing quite well, and Smith screeches to a halt realising he is going to get a bollocking from Tone after for his one-sided commentary, and proceeds to cheerleader Dell for the next 5 rounds. Even turning on the hapless Matt Mackln for giving everything to Usyk, faithful Matt, who is incapable of disagreeing with Smith in any capacity whatsoever
I can usually put up with Smith's bias commentary but I thought he was particularly bad for this card. He wasn't even trying to be subtle, added no substance to his commentary other than the fact that he thought that Chisora was beating Usyk because he's bigger and he was even arguing his obviously bad views to save face once the result was in.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 04 Nov 2020, 16:50
by Ruthless-RKO
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 05 Nov 2020, 13:28
by Autobarn
Usyk was effective but it wasn’t a star making performance & you wonder how far his arm punching style can take him vs way bigger men.
Chisora applied his weight and strength at the start and end, but between that he was comprehensively outboxed by an elite southpaw.
Probably Usyk feels there’s enough flaws in Joshua, in terms of technique and cardio, that he can take advantage of. But I have a feeling he’s going to land himself in deep water gambling for the biggest prize.
I don’t want to see Usyk rush; I want to see a learning curve vs fringe contenders and legit contenders alike, as Holyfield did. So we can see the best develop in him.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 05 Nov 2020, 13:41
by DrDuke
Autobarn wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 13:28
Usyk was effective but it wasn’t a star making performance & you wonder how far his arm punching style can take him vs way bigger men.
Chisora applied his weight and strength at the start and end, but between that he was comprehensively outboxed by an elite southpaw.
Probably Usyk feels there’s enough flaws in Joshua, in terms of technique and cardio, that he can take advantage of. But I have a feeling he’s going to land himself in deep water gambling for the biggest prize.
I don’t want to see Usyk rush; I want to see a learning curve vs fringe contenders and legit contenders alike, as Holyfield did. So we can see the best develop in him.
Usyk isn't an arm-puncher, he just doesn't carry huge power. And he gotta be in rush, as he'll be 34 in a few months. Holyfield was in a different situation.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 05 Nov 2020, 20:16
by Autobarn
He doesn’t get body weight in his shots. He has that piston punching style. He pops them out but seldom generates real force into his shots.
Holyfield was a lot different, less technical but far more physical. Lot of core strength, weight behind his shots, forward momentum: he’ll never be equaled.
I do regard Usyk as a great at cruiserweight. I really value his wins over Breidis, Gassiev, Hunter & Glowacki. And he can win a version of the heavyweight title, like, say, Haye did. But, like for instance the trickiest southpaw heavyweight Chris Byrd, he won’t ever trouble people physically.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 05 Nov 2020, 20:36
by jamesmcdonnell
Autobarn wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 20:16
He doesn’t get body weight in his shots. He has that piston punching style. He pops them out but seldom generates real force into his shots.
Holyfield was a lot different, less technical but far more physical. Lot of core strength, weight behind his shots, forward momentum: he’ll never be equaled.
I do regard Usyk as a great at cruiserweight. I really value his wins over Breidis, Gassiev, Hunter & Glowacki. And he can win a version of the heavyweight title, like, say, Haye did. But, like for instance the trickiest southpaw heavyweight Chris Byrd, he won’t ever trouble people physically.
Holyfield was a beast. Iron will, iron jaw, great technique, utterly fearless, and underrated power. No other cruiserweight has since come close to his run at heavyweight. Haye fiddled his way to a win over one of the worst heavyweight champs in modern times, and ran like a thief against wladimir.
Haye went to war with and beat a prime Riddick Bowe and beat up lots of genuine heavyweights in proper fights.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 06 Nov 2020, 03:44
by DrDuke
Yeah, Holyfield was unique. Usyk was able to do about the same stuff at the CW, but he won't repeat that at the HW.
Usyk's main problem is a lack of plain toughness, he isn't hard-hitting, he doesn't take risks. Sometimes, when you are outmatched in some way, you gotta take risks. And punching power is obviously important in a sport, where you have to punch to win.
Usyk is technical, he's great boxer, but not a great fighter. He complained in different fights, when he was bullied inside, including his bouts against Briedis and Chisora, which are probably his biggest wins up to the date. What will he do, when 6'9" and 270 lbs Fury will unleash an inside onslaught on him?
Holyfield was ready to bring it against anyone, Usyk isn't.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 06 Nov 2020, 04:50
by Autobarn
When Usyk put on his masterclass vs Gassiev, I knew he couldn’t be a heavyweight force. He was brilliant, but lateral movement and peppering with shots will only get you so far at heavyweight. He proved himself a great boxer but he doesn’t generate force and his arms don’t seem very strong.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 06 Nov 2020, 07:00
by dookus
DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Nov 2020, 03:44
Yeah, Holyfield was unique. Usyk was able to do about the same stuff at the CW, but he won't repeat that at the HW.
Usyk's main problem is a lack of plain toughness, he isn't hard-hitting, he doesn't take risks. Sometimes, when you are outmatched in some way, you gotta take risks. And punching power is obviously important in a sport, where you have to punch to win.
Usyk is technical, he's great boxer, but not a great fighter. He complained in different fights, when he was bullied inside, including his bouts against Briedis and Chisora, which are probably his biggest wins up to the date. What will he do, when 6'9" and 270 lbs Fury will unleash an inside onslaught on him?
Holyfield was ready to bring it against anyone, Usyk isn't.
About how I see it
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 06 Nov 2020, 08:22
by gregregegg
DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Nov 2020, 03:44
Yeah, Holyfield was unique. Usyk was able to do about the same stuff at the CW, but he won't repeat that at the HW.
Usyk's main problem is a lack of plain toughness, he isn't hard-hitting, he doesn't take risks. Sometimes, when you are outmatched in some way, you gotta take risks. And punching power is obviously important in a sport, where you have to punch to win.
Usyk is technical, he's great boxer, but not a great fighter. He complained in different fights, when he was bullied inside, including his bouts against Briedis and Chisora, which are probably his biggest wins up to the date. What will he do, when 6'9" and 270 lbs Fury will unleash an inside onslaught on him?
Holyfield was ready to bring it against anyone, Usyk isn't.
All respect to hollyfield, incredible fighter, but he never realy dominated giant heavyweights..
First 5 or 6 heavyweight fights were against tiny heavyweights by modern standard, then he beat douglas (decent but eh), then a very old george forman, a noone, then a very old larry holms, Lost a trillogy 2-1 to bowe (primeish good size), went 1-1 with morre (tiny), Beat after jail off the rail tyson twice (great wins but small and not his best in my opinion), went 0-1-1 with lewis, 1-1-1 with ruiz, and then was basicaly done..
Not saying this isnt a great effort, just saying that its remembered as beter than it is in my opinion. Dont think usyk will pass evanders heavyweight achivments, just due to the age he turned pro, but just cause he cant beat fury.... who was the fury evander beat? i personaly think prime usyk beats prime holyfield....
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Nov 2020, 03:44
Yeah, Holyfield was unique. Usyk was able to do about the same stuff at the CW, but he won't repeat that at the HW.
Usyk's main problem is a lack of plain toughness, he isn't hard-hitting, he doesn't take risks. Sometimes, when you are outmatched in some way, you gotta take risks. And punching power is obviously important in a sport, where you have to punch to win.
Usyk is technical, he's great boxer, but not a great fighter. He complained in different fights, when he was bullied inside, including his bouts against Briedis and Chisora, which are probably his biggest wins up to the date. What will he do, when 6'9" and 270 lbs Fury will unleash an inside onslaught on him?
Holyfield was ready to bring it against anyone, Usyk isn't.
All respect to hollyfield, incredible fighter, but he never realy dominated giant heavyweights..
First 5 or 6 heavyweight fights were against tiny heavyweights by modern standard, then he beat douglas (decent but eh), then a very old george forman, a noone, then a very old larry holms, Lost a trillogy 2-1 to bowe (primeish good size), went 1-1 with morre (tiny), Beat after jail off the rail tyson twice (great wins but small and not his best in my opinion), went 0-1-1 with lewis, 1-1-1 with ruiz, and then was basicaly done..
Not saying this isnt a great effort, just saying that its remembered as beter than it is in my opinion. Dont think usyk will pass evanders heavyweight achivments, just due to the age he turned pro, but just cause he cant beat fury.... who was the fury evander beat? i personaly think prime usyk beats prime holyfield....
Holyfied went 1-2 vs Bowe, where there were back-in-forth battles even in losses, so it's just a fact of Holyfield being capable of going toe-to-toe against a big guy.
If to match Holyfield vs Usyk, I'd pick Holyfield. Usyk has never faced such fast, relentless and technical boxer-brawler, while he got hit by the lesser opposition. Holyfield would outbrawl Usyk.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Nov 2020, 03:44
Yeah, Holyfield was unique. Usyk was able to do about the same stuff at the CW, but he won't repeat that at the HW.
Usyk's main problem is a lack of plain toughness, he isn't hard-hitting, he doesn't take risks. Sometimes, when you are outmatched in some way, you gotta take risks. And punching power is obviously important in a sport, where you have to punch to win.
Usyk is technical, he's great boxer, but not a great fighter. He complained in different fights, when he was bullied inside, including his bouts against Briedis and Chisora, which are probably his biggest wins up to the date. What will he do, when 6'9" and 270 lbs Fury will unleash an inside onslaught on him?
Holyfield was ready to bring it against anyone, Usyk isn't.
All respect to hollyfield, incredible fighter, but he never realy dominated giant heavyweights..
First 5 or 6 heavyweight fights were against tiny heavyweights by modern standard, then he beat douglas (decent but eh), then a very old george forman, a noone, then a very old larry holms, Lost a trillogy 2-1 to bowe (primeish good size), went 1-1 with morre (tiny), Beat after jail off the rail tyson twice (great wins but small and not his best in my opinion), went 0-1-1 with lewis, 1-1-1 with ruiz, and then was basicaly done..
Not saying this isnt a great effort, just saying that its remembered as beter than it is in my opinion. Dont think usyk will pass evanders heavyweight achivments, just due to the age he turned pro, but just cause he cant beat fury.... who was the fury evander beat? i personaly think prime usyk beats prime holyfield....
Holyfied went 1-2 vs Bowe, where there were back-in-forth battles even in losses, so it's just a fact of Holyfield being capable of going toe-to-toe against a big guy.
If to match Holyfield vs Usyk, I'd pick Holyfield. Usyk has never faced such fast, relentless and technical boxer-brawler, while he got hit by the lesser opposition. Holyfield would outbrawl Usyk.
I’m admittedly not very knowledgable about Holyfield’s career and as a result couldn’t make a prediction, but I would definitely pay a lot of money to see that fight.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Dillian Whyte says about Derek Chisora: "He let himself down by not having any boxing experience in his corner to guide him and tell him what to do"; Chisora was offered up by his manager David Haye to fight Whyte at short-notice; Whyte will wait to face Alexander Povetkin in 2021
Dillian Whyte has questioned why David Haye allowed Derek Chisora to have a set of trainers with no “boxing experience” in his corner for the defeat to Oleksandr Usyk.
Chisora fell to a unanimous decision loss to the unbeaten Usyk but his manager Haye claims he is "ageing like a fine wine" and wanted him to rebound at three weeks' notice to fight Whyte this month.
"I thought Derek could have done much better," Whyte told Sky Sports about his old rival's performance against Usyk.
"He let himself down by not having any boxing experience in his corner to guide him and tell him what to do.
"He just went into the ring with a mind-set of 'knockout, knockout, knockout' but it didn't work and he just stuck to that game-plan.
"Derek was the boss in his corner. They aren't boxing coaches and they didn't give the advice he needed to make the adjustments to beat Usyk.
"One of them said: 'If you win this round, you are winning the fight'.
"What?
"That is a lack of boxing experience. Because he was fit and throwing punches they thought he was winning. No!
"Why wasn't Haye in his corner? Or Dave Coldwell who has trained him before? Don't just have your mates in the corner for the biggest fight of your life."
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Nov 2020, 03:44
Yeah, Holyfield was unique. Usyk was able to do about the same stuff at the CW, but he won't repeat that at the HW.
Usyk's main problem is a lack of plain toughness, he isn't hard-hitting, he doesn't take risks. Sometimes, when you are outmatched in some way, you gotta take risks. And punching power is obviously important in a sport, where you have to punch to win.
Usyk is technical, he's great boxer, but not a great fighter. He complained in different fights, when he was bullied inside, including his bouts against Briedis and Chisora, which are probably his biggest wins up to the date. What will he do, when 6'9" and 270 lbs Fury will unleash an inside onslaught on him?
Holyfield was ready to bring it against anyone, Usyk isn't.
All respect to hollyfield, incredible fighter, but he never realy dominated giant heavyweights..
First 5 or 6 heavyweight fights were against tiny heavyweights by modern standard, then he beat douglas (decent but eh), then a very old george forman, a noone, then a very old larry holms, Lost a trillogy 2-1 to bowe (primeish good size), went 1-1 with morre (tiny), Beat after jail off the rail tyson twice (great wins but small and not his best in my opinion), went 0-1-1 with lewis, 1-1-1 with ruiz, and then was basicaly done..
Not saying this isnt a great effort, just saying that its remembered as beter than it is in my opinion. Dont think usyk will pass evanders heavyweight achivments, just due to the age he turned pro, but just cause he cant beat fury.... who was the fury evander beat? i personaly think prime usyk beats prime holyfield....
Holyfied went 1-2 vs Bowe, where there were back-in-forth battles even in losses, so it's just a fact of Holyfield being capable of going toe-to-toe against a big guy.
If to match Holyfield vs Usyk, I'd pick Holyfield. Usyk has never faced such fast, relentless and technical boxer-brawler, while he got hit by the lesser opposition. Holyfield would outbrawl Usyk.
Agreed
Usyk might be the more sophisticated boxer. But he can’t really get into an honest exchange with anyone, unlike “The Real Deal.”
Usyk does have the scariest eyes at heavyweight since Bonecrusher Smith, I’ll give him that.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Nov 2020, 03:44
Yeah, Holyfield was unique. Usyk was able to do about the same stuff at the CW, but he won't repeat that at the HW.
Usyk's main problem is a lack of plain toughness, he isn't hard-hitting, he doesn't take risks. Sometimes, when you are outmatched in some way, you gotta take risks. And punching power is obviously important in a sport, where you have to punch to win.
Usyk is technical, he's great boxer, but not a great fighter. He complained in different fights, when he was bullied inside, including his bouts against Briedis and Chisora, which are probably his biggest wins up to the date. What will he do, when 6'9" and 270 lbs Fury will unleash an inside onslaught on him?
Holyfield was ready to bring it against anyone, Usyk isn't.
All respect to hollyfield, incredible fighter, but he never realy dominated giant heavyweights..
First 5 or 6 heavyweight fights were against tiny heavyweights by modern standard, then he beat douglas (decent but eh), then a very old george forman, a noone, then a very old larry holms, Lost a trillogy 2-1 to bowe (primeish good size), went 1-1 with morre (tiny), Beat after jail off the rail tyson twice (great wins but small and not his best in my opinion), went 0-1-1 with lewis, 1-1-1 with ruiz, and then was basicaly done..
Not saying this isnt a great effort, just saying that its remembered as beter than it is in my opinion. Dont think usyk will pass evanders heavyweight achivments, just due to the age he turned pro, but just cause he cant beat fury.... who was the fury evander beat? i personaly think prime usyk beats prime holyfield....
To me it’s like Sugar Ray Robinson’s middleweight record. It’s spotty but it’s because he fought just about everyone after moving up a weight. Obviously I don’t want to push the comparison too far, as Robinson had huge rivalries with several greats (Lamotta, Basilio, Fullmer). But Holyfield’s step up in weight was pretty severe, from 190 (the old cruiserweight limit) to facing guys as heavy as 240-250 pounds.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 18:05
by Counter-puncher
Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 19:32
Usyk fighting smart. People on here don't see the nuances because they are blinded by commentary. Turn it off and you'll see the fight for what it is. He'd adapt for Fury or Joshua. Joshua doesn't have enough of a boxing brain to adapt in kind. Fury does.
Bumped in memory of Jimmy, I remember him saying this way back
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 18:19
by margaret thatcher
agree on his comment, all the stuff about usyk-chis being some close struggle was just utter nonsense too, bizarre. chiz could hardly touch him after round 2
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 18:46
by Boxing Prospect
Chisora lost clearly to Usyk...and was still a tougher fight than Joshua...as were Hunter and Breidis... Joshua had no answer
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 18:47
by DrDuke
Hard fight for Usyk they said... And Joshua is even bigger and stronger they said...
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:06
by Counter-puncher
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 18:19
agree on his comment, all the stuff about usyk-chis being some close struggle was just utter nonsense too, bizarre. chiz could hardly touch him after round 2
He was the first person i saw saying Usyk beats AJ with ease.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Posted: 25 Sep 2021, 19:08
by Monte Fisto
Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 18:46
Chisora lost clearly to Usyk...and was still a tougher fight than Joshua...as were Hunter and Breidis... Joshua had no answer
Agree, he couldn’t control the distance whatsoever. This whole AJ needs to bully him next time and let right hand go is farcical to me. My only concern for Usyk losing tonight was that he would get too greedy but he boxed perfectly taking very few risks and won by a landslide.
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 18:46
Chisora lost clearly to Usyk...and was still a tougher fight than Joshua...as were Hunter and Breidis... Joshua had no answer
Agree, he couldn’t control the distance whatsoever. This whole AJ needs to bully him next time and let right hand go is farcical to me. My only concern for Usyk losing tonight was that he would get too greedy but he boxed perfectly taking very few risks and won by a landslide.
I can't believe Joshua didn't hold at EVERY opportunity. Force Usyk to take his weight, tire him out, then come on... It's like... THE GAMEPLAN to beat a fast, mover from a division below...
Re: Round-by-Round: Oleksandr Usyk vs. Derek Chisora - 31 October 2020
Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑25 Sep 2021, 18:46
Chisora lost clearly to Usyk...and was still a tougher fight than Joshua...as were Hunter and Breidis... Joshua had no answer
Agree, he couldn’t control the distance whatsoever. This whole AJ needs to bully him next time and let right hand go is farcical to me. My only concern for Usyk losing tonight was that he would get too greedy but he boxed perfectly taking very few risks and won by a landslide.
I can't believe Joshua didn't hold at EVERY opportunity. Force Usyk to take his weight, tire him out, then come on... It's like... THE GAMEPLAN to beat a fast, mover from a division below...
Or just bang hard. He failed to use his size at all
About how I see it
