BoxRec

Sylvia Ramos . . .

This morning I was surprised to see Sylvia Ramos show up at the monthly WBHOF board of directors meeting. Mando had been an honorary director himself, until his health made attendence at the meetings difficult, however, he remained active and was always made an appearance at HOF functions, signing autographs, sharing stories, etc. Sylvia came by to say hello and express Mando's and her wishes regarding this friday's memorial service. She wants to make it an evening of happy memories. Photos should be taken at the event and posted by anybody who wishes to do so. As it turns out, I will start a new film this week and we are scheduled to shoot on a distant location late this week. My position is one in which I cannot be easily replaced, and there's a chance I may not be able to leave for the service. Sylvia understands and knows my tribute to Mando will be penning his life story in a book, something Mando and I had discussed in great detail during the past year. I'm grateful we had taken the time to sit together and discuss his memories, experiences and feelings prior to his death. I won't do what many biographers and historians must do in putting together a "life story". My story will be more than a collection of facts & figures derived from a library. I'll share personal memories and words that came directly from the champ's lips. Like Frank, my memories are up close and personal. Dagos and Frank, I directed the last live interview with Mando last october and will intercut it with quick cuts of his knockouts, some still photos, interviews with a few from his past. My partner Dan Hanley and I will put an original sound track to the film and preview it at this coming WBHOF's annual induction banquet. So, Frank, Dagos & Randy, you'll see it at the banquet, and Frank, t would you mind speaking a few words about your early memories of Mando in fron of our cameras, sometime before the event? I'll contact you in due course to discuss this.

-Rick

A few words with Vince Delgado . . .

At todays WBHOF meeting, I asked former boxer & referee Vince Delgado about his uncle, Carlos Chavez. Having just discovered that Chavez had died of a gunshot wound in 1990, at age 68, I was curious about the circumstances. Delgado said that Chavez had gone to an East L.A. liquor store to cash his Social Security check. As he left the store, a few barrio gang bangers demanded he hand over the cash. "Knowing my uncle, he probably told them to go to Hell", Delgado remarked. The former boxer was jumped, fought back and then shot dead by one of the gangsters. A lady witnessed the shooting, and said Chavez had tried to defend himself against the gang, before one of the punks shot him. The young men fled the scene after grabbing the money. The lady refused to testify against the local gang or identify the assailants out of fear. The case has never been solved. "They never caught his murderers, just like Howie Steindler", Delgado said.

-Rick Farris

I dont know if you guys caught the fights on espn2 last night. They were at The Old Aaragon Ballroom in Chicago.
Atlas and Tessitore paid tribute to Mando.They also showed some clips from some of his fights.
He was a great fighter.
They also wished Johnny Lira well as he is fighting liver cancer.

Mando Ramos on ABC tomorrow . . .

Hey guys, forgot to mention earlier that Sylvia Ramos told us today that Mando will be featured tomorrow morning on ABC-TV. She did not know the exact time, but it will be on the show that is hosted by political analyst George Stephanopolis. I believe that show is broadcast in the morning here in Los Angeles?

-Rick

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Ironically, I'll see Vince Delgado tomorrow morning at a board meeting for the World Boxing Hall of Fame. In addition to being a fighter and long-time referee/judge, he's the nephhew of the late L.A. headliner Carlos Chavez. Chavez was a helluva lightweight in L.A. defeating Manuel Ortiz and Lauro Salas to name a few. In 1990, at age 68, Chavez was shot & killed in a street fight. Frank, Carlos Chavez was active before my time, however, I remember my uncle talking about him when I was a kid. I know you saw him fight and maybe boxed him in the gym? What are your memories of Chavez?

-Rick

Rick,

I seen Carlos Chavez fight a few times, Carlos was a pure boxer, he beat Art Aragon and in the re-match he went in the tank in the first round, and for the rest of his life he was bother by that, he could never forgive himself for doing so. Carlos had a brother that also fought pro, Al, Al fought most of his fights over sea's.

Look at their records and you will see that the Chavez's fought any and everybody, the young boxing fans like to say that we older guys like to live in the past, there most be a reason for that, and the reason is records like the Chavez's.

Frank, could you post Carlos Chavez' ring record? I'd do it but I don't know how. I have NO computor skills what so ever.

-Rick

Here it is, Rick

Carlos Chavez

Country USA
Global Id 28
Hometown Los Angeles, CA, USA
Division Featherweight
Born 1922-07-25
Died 1990-08-00
Stance Orthodox
Reach 163cm
Height 163cm


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1956-12-18 Tommy Romulo San Jose, USA L TKO 3
1956-11-08 Kid Centella Los Angeles, USA L TKO 5
1956-10-04 Philip Kim Los Angeles, USA L SD 10
1956-08-23 Timmie Jefferson Los Angeles, USA W SD 10
1956-08-02 Kid Centella Los Angeles, USA W MD 10
1956-05-01 David Cervantes Mexicali, Mexico L KO 4
1956-02-07 Stan Harrington Honolulu, USA L TKO 6
1956-01-19 Jimmy Dupree Los Angeles, USA W MD 10
1955-12-17 Orlando Zulueta Havana, Cuba L PTS 10
1955-10-25 Jimmy Dupree Fresno, USA D PTS 10
1955-09-15 Ramon Tiscareno Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1955-09-08 Tommy Manaois Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1955-06-30 Rudy Jordan Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1955-05-26 Morris Leviege Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1955-04-13 Bobby Woods Spokane, USA L UD 10
1955-03-10 Walter Tyler Los Angeles, USA W MD 10
1955-02-10 Bobby Woods Los Angeles, USA W MD 10
1954-11-01 Ralph Dupas New Orleans, USA L TKO 7
1954-10-25 Frankie Ray Los Angeles, USA W TKO 7
1954-09-21 Bobby Woods New Orleans, USA W PTS 10
1954-06-12 Cisco Andrade Boston, USA L TKO 9
1954-04-24 Tony DeMarco Boston, USA L UD 10
1954-03-09 Otho Sligar Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1954-02-02 Cisco Andrade Los Angeles, USA L MD 10
1953-12-07 Paddy DeMarco Brooklyn, USA L PTS 10
1953-10-15 Jimmy Carter Los Angeles, USA L TKO 6
1953-07-14 Philip Kim Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1953-05-15 Conrado Castanon Ciudad Juarez, Mexico W PTS 10
1953-04-04 Johnny Butterworth Eureka, USA W PTS 10
1953-03-24 Bobby Why Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1952-12-26 George Dunn Edmonton, Canada L TKO 10
1952-10-24 Paulino Montes Mexicali, Mexico W PTS 10
1952-09-16 Chu Chu Jiminez Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1952-07-22 Gerald LaBroi Los Angeles, USA D PTS 10
1952-07-08 Gerald LaBroi Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1952-04-14 Mario Trigo Inyokern, USA L PTS 10
1952-03-25 Louis Williams Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1952-01-29 Chu Chu Jiminez Los Angeles, USA W SD 10
1952-01-01 Chu Chu Jiminez Los Angeles, USA L MD 10
1951-07-12 Baby LeRoy Las Vegas, USA L KO 1
1951-06-08 Lauro Salas Hollywood, USA L UD 10
1951-03-05 Willie Pep New Orleans, USA L UD 10
1951-02-20 Eddie Chavez San Jose, USA L PTS 10
1951-01-24 Tote Martinez Sacramento, USA L TKO 5
1950-11-21 Art Aragon Los Angeles, USA L KO 1
1950-11-09 Del Flanagan Minneapolis, USA L PTS 10
1950-10-25 Joey Velez Spokane, USA L SD 10
1950-10-17 Mario Trigo Honolulu, USA L UD 10
1950-08-29 John L Davis Los Angeles, USA L UD 12
1950-07-28 Jesse Flores San Francisco, USA L UD 10
1950-06-06 Art Aragon Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1950-05-10 Emil Barao Emeryville, USA W TD 6
1950-03-28 Baby LeRoy Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1950-02-22 Jesse Flores San Francisco, USA W TKO 10
1950-02-10 Buddy Jacklich San Francisco, USA W TKO 2
1949-11-22 Lem Thomas Los Angeles, USA W TKO 5
1949-05-10 Maxie Docusen Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1949-03-15 Lauro Salas Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1948-10-26 Lauro Salas Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1948-10-15 Torito Ramos Hollywood, USA W KO 5
1948-08-24 Alfredo Escobar Los Angeles, USA W TKO 7
1948-05-15 Paulino Montes Hollywood, USA L UD 10
1948-04-13 Harold Dade Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1948-02-13 Billy Gibson Hollywood, USA W KO 3
1947-09-23 Luis Ramos Los Angeles, USA W TKO 9
1947-07-22 Harold Dade Los Angeles, USA W SD 12
1947-05-06 Harold Dade Los Angeles, USA D PTS 12
1947-04-09 Roscoe Scally Oakland, USA W TKO 7
1947-02-26 Lorenzo Safora Oakland, USA W PTS 10
1947-01-22 Speedy Cabanella Oakland, USA W KO 5
1946-12-03 Charley Cabey Lewis Cleveland, USA W PTS 10
1946-10-22 Manuel Ortiz Los Angeles, USA W UD 12
1946-08-13 Juan Leanos Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1946-07-02 Pete Virgin Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1946-05-28 Jose 'Baby' Gonzalez Los Angeles, USA D PTS 10
1946-03-19 Manuel Ortiz Los Angeles, USA D PTS 15
1946-02-26 Bobby Jackson Los Angeles, USA W TKO 4
1945-12-07 Lefty LaChance Savannah, USA W PTS 10
1945-11-12 Augie LaPara New Orleans, USA W PTS 10
1945-08-14 Lefty LaChance Los Angeles, USA W KO 6
1945-04-23 Lefty LaChance Savannah, USA L PTS 10
1945-03-20 Joey Kushner Savannah, USA W KO 3
1945-02-05 Lefty LaChance Savannah, USA W PTS 10
1944-11-27 Angel Aviles Savannah, USA W PTS 10
1944-09-30 Manuel Ortiz Los Angeles, USA L SD 10
1944-08-17 Pete Virgin Savannah, USA W PTS 10
1944-07-01 Davey Crawford Savannah, USA W KO 1
1944-05-26 Tony Olivera Hollywood, USA W UD 10
1944-05-10 Bobby Lalonde Savannah, USA W KO 3
1943-01-01 Al Medrano Hollywood, USA W PTS 10
1942-11-13 Donnie Maes Hollywood, USA W PTS 10
1942-08-28 Tony Olivera Hollywood, USA W SD 10
1942-06-19 Tony Olivera Hollywood, USA W MD 10
1942-04-17 Lou Salica Hollywood, USA W UD 10
1941-09-19 Donnie Maes Hollywood, USA W TKO 10
1941-07-03 Donnie Maes Hollywood, USA D PTS 10
1941-05-09 Manuel Ortiz Hollywood, USA L PTS 10
1941-04-04 Manuel Ortiz Hollywood, USA D PTS 10
1941-03-22 Nat Corum Los Angeles, USA W PTS 6
1941-03-03 Nash Diaz Ocean Park, USA W KO 3
1941-02-22 Tommy Cobb Los Angeles, USA W TKO 3
1940-08-16 Harold Bell Hollywood, USA W TKO 6
1940-07-19 Nat Corum Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1940-05-31 Andy Vasquez Hollywood, USA W PTS 6
1940-04-30 Nat Corum Los Angeles, USA W PTS 6
1940-03-15 Andy Vasquez Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1940-02-23 Harold Bell Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1940-02-09 Sal Bacca Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1939-12-22 Andy Vasquez Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1939-12-01 Tony Numkena Hollywood, USA W TKO 1
1939-11-10 Nash Diaz Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1939-09-29 Harold Bell Hollywood, USA L PTS 4
1939-09-01 Harold Bell Hollywood, USA D PTS 4
1939-07-14 Babe Antuna Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1939-06-30 Nash Diaz Hollywood, USA D PTS 4
1939-06-16 Frankie Cervente Hollywood, USA D PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 70 (KOs 20) Lost 36 Drawn 10 Total 116

Chavez fought every top fighter back in his day, just look at the names on his record

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWDU3x2_bEE
Little Julian Herrera

"I Remember Linda"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2NPC71nSgw
Little Julian Herrera

"These Lonely Night"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_q4l5AnVvk
The Medalions

"The Letter"

For diego


City officials prepare to blow out the candles of a birthday cake at a ceremony celebrating the 119th anniversary of Tijuana, Mexico.
July 11, 2008

Frank, there was a welterweight from Hawaii who headlined in L.A. during your first decade in boxing,Phil Kim. I heard the name when I was a kid when my uncle would talk boxing. I know he wasn't the best in town, but he was suppoosed to be pretty good. He beat Carlos Chavez (and lost to him), Maio Trigo and Johnny Gonzalves. He was stopped by Aragon. I know he was murdered in some sort of drug war in an L.A. parking months after his last fight, a loss to Carlos Ortiz. Do you remember "Wildcat" Phil Kim? Did you see him fight? Just curious what you might know of him.

-Rick

L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaregoza (spelling?) . . .

Just learned today that L.A. Mayor, Antonio Villaregoza, will be in attendance at this year's WBHOF banquet. I know this may not be of great interest to the world of boxing, but in my opinion, this guy is a great mayor of a great city. We are honoring the mayor for his recognition of boxing, supporting many local programs designed to help inner-city kids find an alternative to gang life. I'm not sure exactly what we are going to present the mayor with, probably some plaque, or whatever? But I look forward to meeting the man.

-Rick

Expug wrote:I dont know if you guys caught the fights on espn2 last night. They were at The Old Aaragon Ballroom in Chicago.
Atlas and Tessitore paid tribute to Mando.They also showed some clips from some of his fights.
He was a great fighter.
They also wished Johnny Lira well as he is fighting liver cancer.

Pug, I didn't catch the Friday Night Fights last night, however, you caught my attention when you mentioned the Old Aragon Ballroom. I'm sure some of the senior age L.A. guys who post here will recall that we also had an Aragon Ballroom, located on a pier at Venice Beach. It once was a place that showcased a lot of Big Bands from the 40's, etc. However, the Ballroom and pier were torn down in the early 70's, along with the Ocean Park fun zone. Just a couple blocks away, off Pico & Ocean blvd. in Santa Monica, was the legendary Ocean Park Arena where many of the big name West Coast boxers of the era fought. This was a few years bfore my time, but I know Frank has some memories of the place. According to Hap Navarro, Ocean Park was one of the better smaller L.A. fight venues, with the Olympic Aud. and Hollywood Legion Stadium being the top L.A. fight arenas.

-Rick Farris

Rick Farris wrote:Frank, there was a welterweight from Hawaii who headlined in L.A. during your first decade in boxing,Phil Kim. I heard the name when I was a kid when my uncle would talk boxing. I know he wasn't the best in town, but he was suppoosed to be pretty good. He beat Carlos Chavez (and lost to him), Maio Trigo and Johnny Gonzalves. He was stopped by Aragon. I know he was murdered in some sort of drug war in an L.A. parking months after his last fight, a loss to Carlos Ortiz. Do you remember "Wildcat" Phil Kim? Did you see him fight? Just curious what you might know of him.

-Rick

Rick,

I seen Kim fight a number of times, I seen him fight both Chavez and Aragon, among other, and he was true to his nickname, he fought like a wildcat, below is a pic. of him, I have another pic. that I'll post as soon as I can fine it.
I also seen Mario Trigo and Johnny Gonzalves fight live.

Just got back from Spain.Good to be home. I've got some responses,so I'll throw them together "Gato" style.

Bennie: Thanks for the compliment. The last I heard of Jibaro was over ten years ago. I saw the brother of his wife. Jibaro,at that time was out of control. Living in Tj and mixed up in things(don't ask me what 'cause I don't know or want to know)that don't sound good for his health. Divorce is uncommon in Mexico,but the brother in law says he's not around much. Remember this is ten year old news. As far as Erik,he's in TJ . Not involved with fighting that much. The gym is still in operation. They say he's doing OK whatever that means. Funny ,Bennie,in Mexico,especially with people who have done all right,there seems to be something lurking under the surface. Especially in Tijuana.

Rick:Thanks for the kind words. About my dad and the crew he used to run with,that life made it virtually impossible to live a normal life. Some of the things I'm going to say will blend into addressing the other fellas comments . The Mob guys were in a CIA like society. Many of their activities were involved with our government.Many of the things my father told me aren't documented. There's no PAPER TRAIL. NEVER. My dad used to tell me about J. Edgar Hoover being gay long before it came out after his death. That's why organized crime never feared the FBI. But regardless,the life those guys lived was always on the inside. Interesting as hell,but a life that was hell to live.

Pug:Your comment about pugs throwing caution to the wind. We've talked about this. All libido with these guys. If it feels good,do it. If they weren't boxing for a living,they'd probably be behind bars. They did a testosterone test on prisoners and fighters. The results were off the charts. BTW,again about articulating. You don't have to use fancy words to make a point. Your comments and observations are terse and penetrating. Honest above all. Articulation means nothing if there's no substance. I've never seen anyone insult you on the Forum. That's because they respect you.

Frank(the Gringo):That picture of the candles lit in honor of TJ. I think it's a wake. That town is a disgrace. I feel sorry for all the good people that live there and have to put up with all that shit. Got back from Cadiz Spain. It was like walking through a history time machine. Ancient buildings that people live and work in. Elders living with their respect still. Compred to TJ,it's night and day. But Cadiz Spain doesn't have the Boom Boom Club. BTW Frank (you old pilgrim),Mexican,American . We're all in this together. Legally American. On a "genetic wavelegth" ,Mexican. I look at it this way,God forbid if anything happened to my wife,it's down to Michoacan to find another Chula.

Thanks, Dagos. Shame about Perez. He looked so good when he beat Happy Lora.
Hopefully he has pulled himself together.

Expug wrote:I dont know if you guys caught the fights on espn2 last night. They were at The Old Aaragon Ballroom in Chicago.
Atlas and Tessitore paid tribute to Mando.They also showed some clips from some of his fights.
He was a great fighter.
They also wished Johnny Lira well as he is fighting liver cancer.

Liver cancer! Assumed it was Cirrhosis. Thanks for the update, Expug. I hope Johnny was watching and sorts himself out.

You kow, Expug, just looking at Johnny's record, the fight after he lost to Espana for the world lightweight title, he went over to Spain and was outscored by a Spanish middleweight - and a decent one at that! Crazy piece of matchmaking.

Hey Pug
Here's one you'll like on Fighters acting on impulse . One night ,a while back, I was at a party . It was Denny Moyer's gig. Ronnie Wilson was there too and all the gang. It was at a time when Moyer and Wilson were doing more drinkin' than trainin' . Their best fighting days were behind them,so they let go of the rope and did anything they wanted to do.

The party is going real stong. You might relate to this being Irish. I never saw so much Jim Beam being consumed in one night. Moyer alone must have drank a gallon. I kept looking for the hole in his leg ehere it was pouring out. (Moyer owned a bar in Portland. I don't think the old ladies tea society played cribbage there.Can you imagine what that place must have been like?)Anyhow Moyer is runnin' around making sure everybody is drinking. He doesn't want any pussies at his party.

Something happened next. Someone said some guys came to the door wanting access to all the fun that was going on inside. Well I'm standing close to Moyer when this information is relayed to him. He moves suddenly towards the door knocking anything in his way over like a tank with the throttle open. I'm behind him,but I ain't movin' as fast as the ex champ. I see Moyer get to the door where these mamalukes are standing. One of them is about to address our host when a right cross smashes this guy in the face.

I guess that was Denny's way of tellin' them they weren't welcome.

bennie wrote:Thanks, Dagos. Shame about Perez. He looked so good when he beat Happy Lora.
Hopefully he has pulled himself together.

Bennie,glad you mentioned the name Happy Lora. I was at that fight. Having a name like " Happy" doesn't qualify you as real macho dude in Mexico ,let alone a fighter. The aficianados took liberties with Lora's name that night.

dagosd2000 wrote:

bennie wrote:Thanks, Dagos. Shame about Perez. He looked so good when he beat Happy Lora.
Hopefully he has pulled himself together.

Bennie,glad you mentioned the name Happy Lora. I was at that fight. Having a name like " Happy" doesn't qualify you as real macho dude in Mexico ,let alone a fighter. The aficianados took liberties with Lora's name that night.

Can imagine, Dagos. Lora was given the nickname because he used to grin a lot when he was fighting - not in a nasty way but because he enjoyed boxing so much, enjoyed winning. He was a damned good champion and that was a really top display by Perez, who dominated, I believe, and must have wiped the smile of Lora's face.
A huge weekend for boxing in Vegas that weekend.

kikibalt wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_q4l5AnVvk
The Medalions

"The Letter"

Frank must be feeling better. It's oldies time again. Hey buddy,who sang that oldie song " Gee". Always reminded me of a day long passed..

Rick Farris wrote:

bennie wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Sugar Ray Robinson, New Middleweight Champion, Leaving Stadium after Defeating Carmen Basilio
Chicago...1958

Robinson was so good in those rematches, much like Napoles. Personally, I think The Sugar Man would have found a way to beat Marvin Hagler. Marvin was a great, great middleweight but not a great "thinking" fighter. He was too mechanical and focussed for that. I remember against Duran he would rush out at the bell and throw a long right from the orthodox stance. Duran could see it coming and countered with a hard right uppercut to the body. Bizarrely, and perhaps revealingly, Hagler continued to do exactly the same thing at the start of almost every round, even though he NEVER landed.

Robinson-Napoles, great comparison, Bennie. In my opinion, Hagler was great for his era, however, Robinson fought at a time when the middleweight division was much thicker in talent, and times were tougher. Of these four, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns & Duran, all would have done well any any era, however, only Roberto Duran would be GREAT in any era. Duran fought pro from age 16-to-50, had well over a 100 fights and despite looking sad toward the end, at age 38, having fought pro for 22 years, Duran dropped Iran Barkley (who had just flattened Tommy Hearns) and took the IBF Middleweight title. Duran was a 3-1 underdog, and would continue on for another dozen years before a car accident ended his ring career for good. Robinson and Duran had something that Sugar Ray Leonard did not have- longevity. Leonard always had all the edges going into a match because he was the draw, however, after just three dozen fights, Sugar Ray Leonard was a shot fighter. Look at Leonard's record, what did he do after 30 some fights? Nada!

-Rick

Robinson and Duran were similar in that they were only beatable once they reached 30 and moved up in weight.

dagosd2000 wrote:

bennie wrote:Thanks, Dagos. Shame about Perez. He looked so good when he beat Happy Lora.
Hopefully he has pulled himself together.

Bennie,glad you mentioned the name Happy Lora. I was at that fight. Having a name like " Happy" doesn't qualify you as real macho dude in Mexico ,let alone a fighter. The aficianados took liberties with Lora's name that night.

"right hand happy, Lora"

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_q4l5AnVvk
The Medalions

"The Letter"

Frank must be feeling better. It's oldies time again. Hey buddy,who sang that oldie song " Gee". Always reminded me of a day long passed..

The "Crows" flip side "I Love You So"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svXcq3bRPDc
The Crows

"Gee"