The thing is Frank, the kid loves to drink hard liquor. he's twnty six, been around the world a few times too. He lives in Seattle, so at this point, I have no say so other then to give him advice over the phone. Like he's going to take advice from a guy who gives his son a shot of jack daniels!kikibalt wrote:"let me have another one".
Now, thats classic.....
Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Yeah well, who am I to talk, so I won't say nothing on you and your son, make my Jack Daniels on the rocks...Randyman wrote:The thing is Frank, the kid loves to drink hard liquor. he's twnty six, been around the world a few times too. He lives in Seattle, so at this point, I have no say so other then to give him advice over the phone. Like he's going to take advice from a guy who gives his son a shot of jack daniels!kikibalt wrote:"let me have another one".
Now, thats classic.....
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Hagler made the same mistake with Sugar Ray leonard that he did with Roberto Duran. It almost cost him the fight with Duran and it definitely cost him the fight with Leonard, though I still thought he did enough to win. With both guys he gave too much respect to their cleverness. He was afraid of looking bad. He didn't commit to his punches. it's not so much that he was afraid of losing, he wasn't, but he was afraid of looking foolish, especially against Leonard, who he considered his inferior. Look at the fight again and you'll see what I mean.bennie wrote:Robinson was so good in those rematches, much like Napoles. Personally, I think The Sugar Man would have found a way to beat Marvin Hagler. Marvin was a great, great middleweight but not a great "thinking" fighter. He was too mechanical and focussed for that. I remember against Duran he would rush out at the bell and throw a long right from the orthodox stance. Duran could see it coming and countered with a hard right uppercut to the body. Bizarrely, and perhaps revealingly, Hagler continued to do exactly the same thing at the start of almost every round, even though he NEVER landed.kikibalt wrote:
Sugar Ray Robinson, New Middleweight Champion, Leaving Stadium after Defeating Carmen Basilio
Chicago...1958
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Just got off the phone with Don Fraser, he said to say hi to everybody and that he is hoping to go home on monday.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Frank and I have been exchanging PMs on Ike Williams, and he suggested that I put some of what we've discussed on the board.
Until the recent discussion about Ike Williams, I really hadn't given him too much thought except that he was part of a progression of solid lightweight champions in the late 40s and 1950s - Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery et al. I was surprised when Frank, who has seen them all, noted that Ike was one of the top two lightweights in his opinion. So I looked at a dvd of Bolandos and Williams last night.
I was very impressed with what I saw. Williams jab was a real work of art - double-jabbing, hooking off the jab (which is an art in itself - most guys can't do it). Williams did everything off his jab. Fighters today don't understand how to use their jab to set things up the way guys like Williams did.
Another thing that I appreciated from Williams in that tape: No wasted effort. No bouncing around; no roundhouse punches - he kind of glided along, his feet always in perfect position, and his punches so short. He reminded me a bit of Jose Napoles in that sense. Napoles had no wasted effort either. A friend of mine used to call guys like that "economical fighters." Nothing went to waste.
You love to see a guy like that work and, sadly, you rarely see that kind of work today.
I bet that, even with modern technology, the new guys don't study the films and tapes of guys like Williams. There is a boxing "work-out" gym right around the corner from my office. Its not a real boxing gym - no ring and no sparring - but a place where people can punch the bag, jump rope, etc. as a aerobic exercise. The guy who runs it - about 35 years old - used to box amateur. Good guy with a pretty extensive career. He teaches folks how to wrap their hands, punch the bags, etc. Anyway, I went in one day to check it out, and we started talking boxing. Somehow or other Sugar Ray Robinson came up and I mentioned Robby's left hook that finished Fullmer, and this guy tells me he's never seen it. He had his laptop computer there, so I pulled up You Tube and showed it to him. He was amazed. So I spent the next hour or so pulling up fighters from the 50s and 60s on You Tube for him to watch. He told me that his trainers never showed him tapes or videos of the old masters. I couldn't believe it. I have thought so often if only we had today's technology back when I was active - WHAT A GREAT TEACHING TOOL!! And apparently the guys now never use it. . . . Unbelievable.
Until the recent discussion about Ike Williams, I really hadn't given him too much thought except that he was part of a progression of solid lightweight champions in the late 40s and 1950s - Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery et al. I was surprised when Frank, who has seen them all, noted that Ike was one of the top two lightweights in his opinion. So I looked at a dvd of Bolandos and Williams last night.
I was very impressed with what I saw. Williams jab was a real work of art - double-jabbing, hooking off the jab (which is an art in itself - most guys can't do it). Williams did everything off his jab. Fighters today don't understand how to use their jab to set things up the way guys like Williams did.
Another thing that I appreciated from Williams in that tape: No wasted effort. No bouncing around; no roundhouse punches - he kind of glided along, his feet always in perfect position, and his punches so short. He reminded me a bit of Jose Napoles in that sense. Napoles had no wasted effort either. A friend of mine used to call guys like that "economical fighters." Nothing went to waste.
You love to see a guy like that work and, sadly, you rarely see that kind of work today.
I bet that, even with modern technology, the new guys don't study the films and tapes of guys like Williams. There is a boxing "work-out" gym right around the corner from my office. Its not a real boxing gym - no ring and no sparring - but a place where people can punch the bag, jump rope, etc. as a aerobic exercise. The guy who runs it - about 35 years old - used to box amateur. Good guy with a pretty extensive career. He teaches folks how to wrap their hands, punch the bags, etc. Anyway, I went in one day to check it out, and we started talking boxing. Somehow or other Sugar Ray Robinson came up and I mentioned Robby's left hook that finished Fullmer, and this guy tells me he's never seen it. He had his laptop computer there, so I pulled up You Tube and showed it to him. He was amazed. So I spent the next hour or so pulling up fighters from the 50s and 60s on You Tube for him to watch. He told me that his trainers never showed him tapes or videos of the old masters. I couldn't believe it. I have thought so often if only we had today's technology back when I was active - WHAT A GREAT TEACHING TOOL!! And apparently the guys now never use it. . . . Unbelievable.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Miguel Cotto, left, and Antonio Margarito will fight Saturday in Las Vegas, with a possible fight against Oscar De La Hoya awaiting the winner.
(Jason DeCrow / AP)
July 25, 2008
My son Bobby is picking Margarito by KO, I don't know about that....
Last edited by kikibalt on 25 Jul 2008, 17:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito: pieces on De La Hoya's chessboard
Oscar De La Hoya wants another bout, and tonight's welterweight title match in Las Vegas will help him narrow his options.
Bill Dwyre
LATimes
All eyes in the boxing world will be focused tonight on Cotto versus Margarito at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
Well, except those eyes belonging to promoters Bob Arum and Richard Schaefer. They may be sneaking a peak or two into the future.
Squaring offThat's because when Puerto Rican Miguel Cotto fights Mexican Antonio Margarito in a welterweight title match that has people talking about a fight of the year before anybody throws the first punch, the result is closely connected to something even bigger.
That would be the sport's next mega-fight. Boxing tries to label its better matchups with this sort of hyperbole. This time, the label would be justified.
This is what is going on:
Oscar De La Hoya, 35, wants to fight one more time. Despite losing three of his last six fights and correctly toying with retirement for several years now, he remains the box-office bonanza for his sport. If he fights, it is a huge deal. If he fights somebody really good, they start throwing around the word "mega."
Add to that all the farewell schmaltz that can be trotted out, and boxing has a real gem to sell.
The date and site have been chosen: Dec. 6 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Mark it down. Christmas comes early for fight fans.
All that's left is to choose an opponent, and that's where the story gets interesting.
De La Hoya has lost mega fights to Felix Trinidad and Floyd Mayweather Jr., so there is incentive to try to avenge either of those, especially in the case of Trinidad, who handed De La Hoya his first defeat in a controversial decision in 1999 that still irks De La Hoya.
Arum answers both those scenarios.
"Mayweather is retired and Trinidad walks around weighing 200 pounds," he said.
That leaves the winner of Cotto-Margarito as the obvious next one up. Except for one thing -- De La Hoya's uncanny sense of his fan base and the marketplace, an issue that looms much larger for him because his life after boxing is the already-booming Golden Boy Promotions company he runs with Schaefer.
"If Margarito wins, Oscar won't fight him," Arum says. "He won't fight another Mexican in his last fight. I tested him on that. I asked about [Julio Cesar] Chavez Jr,, which would be his easiest test. He said no. The Mexicans would hate him."
De La Hoya, from East Los Angeles but of Mexican descent, has carried the perception throughout his career that he is more American than Mexican. Mexicans rooted heartily against him several years ago when he fought and beat the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez.
Interestingly, even though he would be missing out on a huge payday, Margarito seems to understand De La Hoya's dilemma and even agrees with his decision.
So, if Cotto wins, he would appear to be the choice, even though there was some recent talk that De La Hoya didn't like that matchup much either, because he lives in Puerto Rico much of the time now and his wife is Puerto Rican.
The wild card in all this is Filipino sensation Manny Pacquiao, who has won impressively in his recent fights and is now more interested in a matchup that would require him to fight at 10 to 12 pounds heavier than he was in his last match, which was at 135 pounds. Pacquiao actually started his pro career at 112, and his recent fight against David Diaz was his first at as much as 135. De La Hoya is best around 147-150. A catch weight would be part of the fight contract.
Were the 3-1 favorite Cotto to lose tonight, or if De La Hoya ponders the possible beating he could take from Cotto and consider how much he likes to be the bigger man in the ring, Pacquiao might be the choice, no matter what.
Arum says he has it on good authority -- Pacquiao trainer Freddie Roach -- that Pacquiao is willing and able to fight De La Hoya.
"Freddie says he thinks Pacquiao can knock Oscar out," Arum said.
A Pacquiao-De La Hoya matchup was first bandied about more than a year ago by broadcaster Larry Merchant, a once-brilliant sports columnist who lost his way into television. Lots of people laughed at the idea then. They aren't laughing now.
Arum and his Top Rank Promotions have been in the forefront of the game for more than 40 years and have handled most of the game's big names, including Muhammad Ali, as well as De La Hoya for most of his career before he struck out on his own. This time, Arum has all three players, Margarito, Cotto and Pacquiao.
"I'm not in the catbird's seat, but I'm in a seat," he said. "Oscar is in the catbird's seat. He will determine the financials, because he is Oscar."
Schaefer, De La Hoya's partner, would certainly agree with that. Reached in Europe, where he is on vacation, Schaefer played it closer to the vest than Arum, saying he didn't want to mess up any deal with public statements. But he said the deal will be done quickly, likely within 10 days, after talks with De La Hoya and then Arum.
Then, we'll have the big announcement of the big night. Boxing likes to name these things. This one is easy.
Break the Bank Night.
[email protected].
Oscar De La Hoya wants another bout, and tonight's welterweight title match in Las Vegas will help him narrow his options.
Bill Dwyre
LATimes
All eyes in the boxing world will be focused tonight on Cotto versus Margarito at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
Well, except those eyes belonging to promoters Bob Arum and Richard Schaefer. They may be sneaking a peak or two into the future.
Squaring offThat's because when Puerto Rican Miguel Cotto fights Mexican Antonio Margarito in a welterweight title match that has people talking about a fight of the year before anybody throws the first punch, the result is closely connected to something even bigger.
That would be the sport's next mega-fight. Boxing tries to label its better matchups with this sort of hyperbole. This time, the label would be justified.
This is what is going on:
Oscar De La Hoya, 35, wants to fight one more time. Despite losing three of his last six fights and correctly toying with retirement for several years now, he remains the box-office bonanza for his sport. If he fights, it is a huge deal. If he fights somebody really good, they start throwing around the word "mega."
Add to that all the farewell schmaltz that can be trotted out, and boxing has a real gem to sell.
The date and site have been chosen: Dec. 6 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Mark it down. Christmas comes early for fight fans.
All that's left is to choose an opponent, and that's where the story gets interesting.
De La Hoya has lost mega fights to Felix Trinidad and Floyd Mayweather Jr., so there is incentive to try to avenge either of those, especially in the case of Trinidad, who handed De La Hoya his first defeat in a controversial decision in 1999 that still irks De La Hoya.
Arum answers both those scenarios.
"Mayweather is retired and Trinidad walks around weighing 200 pounds," he said.
That leaves the winner of Cotto-Margarito as the obvious next one up. Except for one thing -- De La Hoya's uncanny sense of his fan base and the marketplace, an issue that looms much larger for him because his life after boxing is the already-booming Golden Boy Promotions company he runs with Schaefer.
"If Margarito wins, Oscar won't fight him," Arum says. "He won't fight another Mexican in his last fight. I tested him on that. I asked about [Julio Cesar] Chavez Jr,, which would be his easiest test. He said no. The Mexicans would hate him."
De La Hoya, from East Los Angeles but of Mexican descent, has carried the perception throughout his career that he is more American than Mexican. Mexicans rooted heartily against him several years ago when he fought and beat the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez.
Interestingly, even though he would be missing out on a huge payday, Margarito seems to understand De La Hoya's dilemma and even agrees with his decision.
So, if Cotto wins, he would appear to be the choice, even though there was some recent talk that De La Hoya didn't like that matchup much either, because he lives in Puerto Rico much of the time now and his wife is Puerto Rican.
The wild card in all this is Filipino sensation Manny Pacquiao, who has won impressively in his recent fights and is now more interested in a matchup that would require him to fight at 10 to 12 pounds heavier than he was in his last match, which was at 135 pounds. Pacquiao actually started his pro career at 112, and his recent fight against David Diaz was his first at as much as 135. De La Hoya is best around 147-150. A catch weight would be part of the fight contract.
Were the 3-1 favorite Cotto to lose tonight, or if De La Hoya ponders the possible beating he could take from Cotto and consider how much he likes to be the bigger man in the ring, Pacquiao might be the choice, no matter what.
Arum says he has it on good authority -- Pacquiao trainer Freddie Roach -- that Pacquiao is willing and able to fight De La Hoya.
"Freddie says he thinks Pacquiao can knock Oscar out," Arum said.
A Pacquiao-De La Hoya matchup was first bandied about more than a year ago by broadcaster Larry Merchant, a once-brilliant sports columnist who lost his way into television. Lots of people laughed at the idea then. They aren't laughing now.
Arum and his Top Rank Promotions have been in the forefront of the game for more than 40 years and have handled most of the game's big names, including Muhammad Ali, as well as De La Hoya for most of his career before he struck out on his own. This time, Arum has all three players, Margarito, Cotto and Pacquiao.
"I'm not in the catbird's seat, but I'm in a seat," he said. "Oscar is in the catbird's seat. He will determine the financials, because he is Oscar."
Schaefer, De La Hoya's partner, would certainly agree with that. Reached in Europe, where he is on vacation, Schaefer played it closer to the vest than Arum, saying he didn't want to mess up any deal with public statements. But he said the deal will be done quickly, likely within 10 days, after talks with De La Hoya and then Arum.
Then, we'll have the big announcement of the big night. Boxing likes to name these things. This one is easy.
Break the Bank Night.
[email protected].
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
but I will be rooting for Marg.kikibalt wrote:
Miguel Cotto, left, and Antonio Margarito will fight Saturday in Las Vegas, with a possible fight against Oscar De La Hoya awaiting the winner.
(Jason DeCrow / AP)
July 25, 2008
My son Bobby is picking Margarito by KO, I don't know about that,.....
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
This is a pick'em fight. They both want the win really bad. It's really hard to predict anything, but I do think if Margarito uses his hieght he'll have a better chance. He can't wait around either like he did with Paul Williams. I'll be pulling for Margarito.kikibalt wrote:but I will be rooting for Marg.kikibalt wrote:
Miguel Cotto, left, and Antonio Margarito will fight Saturday in Las Vegas, with a possible fight against Oscar De La Hoya awaiting the winner.
(Jason DeCrow / AP)
July 25, 2008
My son Bobby is picking Margarito by KO, I don't know about that,.....
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Fellas' went to TJ today. Everybody is pickin' Tony. Figures. I'm leaning towards Tony too,but just saw this shot. Now Cotto don't look bad with the ear ring. BUT COME ON TONY! An ear ring on you is about as appropriate as putting a silk hat on the Tasmaniian Devil. You're not a pretty boy. I'm having my doubts now.Randyman wrote:This is a pick'em fight. They both want the win really bad. It's really hard to predict anything, but I do think if Margarito uses his hieght he'll have a better chance. He can't wait around either like he did with Paul Williams. I'll be pulling for Margarito.kikibalt wrote:but I will be rooting for Marg.kikibalt wrote:
Miguel Cotto, left, and Antonio Margarito will fight Saturday in Las Vegas, with a possible fight against Oscar De La Hoya awaiting the winner.
(Jason DeCrow / AP)
July 25, 2008
My son Bobby is picking Margarito by KO, I don't know about that,.....
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Ike Williams
"Ike"
By Diego
"Ike"
By Diego
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I hadn't been to the CREA athletic facility in years. The place was packed with people. Put in an atificial track,some ball fields, Kids playing soccer,baseball and softball,basketball. Even a big blue plastic swimming pool. I couldn't find a parking place in the lot. I parked two blocks away. My leg was hurting. The walk to the CREA was slow and painfull. Every few yards I'd have to stop. I held on to the fence with both hands and looked inside. Little kids runnin' around. I envied them. I finally struggled to the front gate. There was a woman sitting inside a booth.
"Senora. Hay un gimnasio de box aqui?" (Is there a boxing gym here?)
I knew there was the gym,but it had been so long since I'd been there,I knew my question would also give me the location. I was hopping it wasn't far away.
"Si,senor atras el estadio."(Behind the stadium)
Well I guess they hadn't moved it.It was going to be a long walk.
"Pero senor,no abre hasta 3 en la tarde."(Doesn't open until 3 in the afternoon)
"Es OK,Solo quiero photos."(I only want to take some pictures)
"Esta bien. Pero ne abre hasta 3 en la tarde."
As I was doing the stop and go journey to the gym,I was amazed how crowded the CREA was. I finally got to the boxing gym. There was a padlock on the door.A window was open. I took some pictures. I was tired.It was hot. There was a bench near by. I had to sit down. I looked across the complex. It was good to see so many people involved in sports. Kids,adults. Coaches,instructors,and youth counselors. Tijuana is getting a real bad reputation with all the shootings and drug dealers. The corruption has never been worse. I was happy to be sitting down watching so many "Tijuaneros" having fun playing sports.
I knew though I had to get off my butt and work my way back to my car. I forgot to wear a hat.The sun was beating down on my head. I was sweating buckets. There was a stack of newspapers on a stand near where I was sitting. I decided to shade the top of my head with a newspaper. I reached for one of the newspapers. The headline read,"La Policia Trabaja Por Los Narcos Trafficantes."(The police work for the drug smugglers).As I walked towards the gate, I was watching a group of little girls playing field hockey .. Their teacher was a teenage girl. Very pretty. She was wearing a whistle around her neck.
"Buen hecho",she said to the little girls."Ahorrita vamos a comer lunche."
The little girls grabbed their lunch bags and sat around their young teacher. She was calling them by their names wanting to know what kind of juice they wanted.
It took me ,it seemed,forever to get to my car. I opened the door and fell into the driver's seat. I took the newspaper off my head and threw it in the street.
"Senora. Hay un gimnasio de box aqui?" (Is there a boxing gym here?)
I knew there was the gym,but it had been so long since I'd been there,I knew my question would also give me the location. I was hopping it wasn't far away.
"Si,senor atras el estadio."(Behind the stadium)
Well I guess they hadn't moved it.It was going to be a long walk.
"Pero senor,no abre hasta 3 en la tarde."(Doesn't open until 3 in the afternoon)
"Es OK,Solo quiero photos."(I only want to take some pictures)
"Esta bien. Pero ne abre hasta 3 en la tarde."
As I was doing the stop and go journey to the gym,I was amazed how crowded the CREA was. I finally got to the boxing gym. There was a padlock on the door.A window was open. I took some pictures. I was tired.It was hot. There was a bench near by. I had to sit down. I looked across the complex. It was good to see so many people involved in sports. Kids,adults. Coaches,instructors,and youth counselors. Tijuana is getting a real bad reputation with all the shootings and drug dealers. The corruption has never been worse. I was happy to be sitting down watching so many "Tijuaneros" having fun playing sports.
I knew though I had to get off my butt and work my way back to my car. I forgot to wear a hat.The sun was beating down on my head. I was sweating buckets. There was a stack of newspapers on a stand near where I was sitting. I decided to shade the top of my head with a newspaper. I reached for one of the newspapers. The headline read,"La Policia Trabaja Por Los Narcos Trafficantes."(The police work for the drug smugglers).As I walked towards the gate, I was watching a group of little girls playing field hockey .. Their teacher was a teenage girl. Very pretty. She was wearing a whistle around her neck.
"Buen hecho",she said to the little girls."Ahorrita vamos a comer lunche."
The little girls grabbed their lunch bags and sat around their young teacher. She was calling them by their names wanting to know what kind of juice they wanted.
It took me ,it seemed,forever to get to my car. I opened the door and fell into the driver's seat. I took the newspaper off my head and threw it in the street.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Cheers Bennie.bennie wrote:This is a world class post. Many so-called boxing 'experts' believe that, say, flyweights don't punch as hard as the heavies. Codswallop! Pound for pound, the little guys punch every bit as hard, and usually harder, as the big boys.Expug wrote:Dagos, your right about the heavier fighters and conditioning.
I dont know what it is about the allure surrounding heavyweights.
Ive always felt that the lighter weight fighters always put on much better fights.
This isnt news to anyone I know, but there is also the thought in many peoples minds that some of these "little " guys dont really hit so hard.
They are under the impression that a slighter frame means they dont pack a good wallop.
Man is that ever a misconception.
A good solid pro fighter at any weight can punch like hell.
Pascual Perez punched harder than Rocky Marciano.
There is talk of Ike Williams in this thread lately.
It doesnt matter that he was a lightweight.
If he landed his best shot on a 200 pounder, hed of put that guy on his ass.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Naseem Hamed beat up heavies in the gym; Charlie Magri was another who hit too hard to spar men his own weight. It infuriates me when I hear people - some of them boxing 'writers' - say that little guys don't whack. Little guys whack, take a shot, fight flat out for 12 rounds, never quit and just plain do it all in the ring.Expug wrote:Cheers Bennie.bennie wrote:This is a world class post. Many so-called boxing 'experts' believe that, say, flyweights don't punch as hard as the heavies. Codswallop! Pound for pound, the little guys punch every bit as hard, and usually harder, as the big boys.Expug wrote:Dagos, your right about the heavier fighters and conditioning.
I dont know what it is about the allure surrounding heavyweights.
Ive always felt that the lighter weight fighters always put on much better fights.
This isnt news to anyone I know, but there is also the thought in many peoples minds that some of these "little " guys dont really hit so hard.
They are under the impression that a slighter frame means they dont pack a good wallop.
Man is that ever a misconception.
A good solid pro fighter at any weight can punch like hell.
Pascual Perez punched harder than Rocky Marciano.
There is talk of Ike Williams in this thread lately.
It doesnt matter that he was a lightweight.
If he landed his best shot on a 200 pounder, hed of put that guy on his ass.
Earnie Shavers wouldn't have lasted five minutes as a bantamweight.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
dagosd2000 wrote:I hadn't been to the CREA athletic facility in years. The place was packed with people. Put in an atificial track,some ball fields, Kids playing soccer,baseball and softball,basketball. Even a big blue plastic swimming pool. I couldn't find a parking place in the lot. I parked two blocks away. My leg was hurting. The walk to the CREA was slow and painfull. Every few yards I'd have to stop. I held on to the fence with both hands and looked inside. Little kids runnin' around. I envied them. I finally struggled to the front gate. There was a woman sitting inside a booth.
"Senora. Hay un gimnasio de box aqui?" (Is there a boxing gym here?)
I knew there was the gym,but it had been so long since I'd been there,I knew my question would also give me the location. I was hopping it wasn't far away.
"Si,senor atras el estadio."(Behind the stadium)
Well I guess they hadn't moved it.It was going to be a long walk.
"Pero senor,no abre hasta 3 en la tarde."(Doesn't open until 3 in the afternoon)
"Es OK,Solo quiero photos."(I only want to take some pictures)
"Esta bien. Pero ne abre hasta 3 en la tarde."
As I was doing the stop and go journey to the gym,I was amazed how crowded the CREA was. I finally got to the boxing gym. There was a padlock on the door.A window was open. I took some pictures. I was tired.It was hot. There was a bench near by. I had to sit down. I looked across the complex. It was good to see so many people involved in sports. Kids,adults. Coaches,instructors,and youth counselors. Tijuana is getting a real bad reputation with all the shootings and drug dealers. The corruption has never been worse. I was happy to be sitting down watching so many "Tijuaneros" having fun playing sports.
I knew though I had to get off my butt and work my way back to my car. I forgot to wear a hat.The sun was beating down on my head. I was sweating buckets. There was a stack of newspapers on a stand near where I was sitting. I decided to shade the top of my head with a newspaper. I reached for one of the newspapers. The headline read,"La Policia Trabaja Por Los Narcos Trafficantes."(The police work for the drug smugglers).As I walked towards the gate, I was watching a group of little girls playing field hockey .. Their teacher was a teenage girl. Very pretty. She was wearing a whistle around her neck.
"Buen hecho",she said to the little girls."Ahorrita vamos a comer lunche."
The little girls grabbed their lunch bags and sat around their young teacher. She was calling them by their names wanting to know what kind of juice they wanted.
It took me ,it seemed,forever to get to my car. I opened the door and fell into the driver's seat. I took the newspaper off my head and threw it in the street.
Like always, another great story from diego, great job dude!!.....
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Antonio Margarito has at least a ghost of a chance
Veteran fighter says his dead brother visits him in his dreams, but it isn't a haunting, it's motivating. He'll carry Manuel's spirit into the ring against welterweight champion Cotto.
By Kevin Baxter, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 26, 2008
LAS VEGAS -- This week Antonio Margarito had a long talk with his brother, as he does before every big fight.
The two boxers chatted about everything and nothing, the way close brothers do when one's scared and the other's worried. And there'd be nothing unusual about any of this if not for the fact that Antonio Margarito's brother Manuel has been dead for eight years, shot in the back of the head in his Tijuana home.
"I'm always thinking of him," Margarito said. "One incredible thing about that is whenever a fight is near, I always dream of him. They're very realistic dreams. It's like he's right there with me."
He'll be with him again tonight when Margarito (36-5, 26 knockouts) climbs into the ring at the MGM Grand to face WBA welterweight champion Miguel Cotto (32-0, 26 KOs) in the biggest fight of his 15-year professional career.
Not only is Margarito guaranteed at least $1.6 million, by far the most he has ever earned, but a victory over the heavily favored Cotto could lead to even more lucrative fights against Oscar De La Hoya or Floyd Mayweather Jr., should he decide to come out of retirement.
It has been a long climb for Margarito, who was born in Torrance but grew up in a poor, lawless neighborhood in Tijuana. When he was in grade school his father introduced him and his brother to boxing and soon the boys were going straight from school to the gym.
After a while, they skipped the school part and just went to the gym. Their father agreed to look the other way as long as they gave everything they had to the sport.
"My dad told me there's a phrase that says anybody can be part of a group but to be a success you have to work harder," Margarito said in Spanish. "I always remembered that." Out of the ring, with his thick horn-rimmed glasses, the 30-year-old Margarito looks like an MBA student or an accountant. But the truth is, after dropping out of school in junior high, he became a pro fighter at 15 because he needed the money.
And though he won eight of his first nine fights, the bouts, all in northern Mexico, paid little. So Margarito made himself a promise: if he ever made money in the ring he would skip the cars and the bling and spend it on a house, something no one could take away from him.
"After that could come the cars or whatever," he said. "But first was going to come the house. And thank God I have it now."
But he didn't buy in Tijuana's surrounding hills, where many of the elite in the city of 1.5 million, Mexico's sixth largest, choose to live. That would have been too ostentatious for the son of a door-to-door salesman.
"Tony Margarito in Tijuana is Tony Margarito," said Michelle, his grade-school sweetheart and wife of eight years. "He's not better than anybody else or worse than anybody else."
While Margarito waited to get married, his brother didn't, quitting boxing after only four pro fights to start a family. Less than four years later, intruders burst into his home and shot him as he watched television, leaving a baby girl and a wife nearly eight months pregnant with his son.
Margarito, in Texas preparing to fight Buck Smith, had just returned from the weigh-in and a spaghetti dinner when he got the news. After a few moments of stunned silence, he started crying, then screaming.
But several hours later, after regrouping, he insisted the fight go on and the next night he dismantled Smith -- who came in with an amazing 179 victories to his credit -- in six rounds.
"My body was there," Margarito said. "But my mind wasn't."
Outside of family and a close circle of friends, Margarito rarely spoke of the tragedy.
"For many years that weighed on Tony's heart," Michelle said. "But Tony's the kind of person who keeps those things inside. He doesn't let people in. He's very guarded."
While robbery is suspected, a motive for the killing has never been determined -- partly because Michelle, wary of who might be involved, urged her husband to give up his investigation shortly after the murder.
"I told him, 'You know what? It's better if you stop all this,' " she said. "Your brother isn't going to come back. What happened happened. I understand he wants to know what happened to his brother and make the person that did it pay. But I was frightened for Tony and for the family."
Margarito spoke publicly about his brother in April, after he knocked out Kermit Cintron in the sixth round of a welterweight title fight on what would have been Manuel's 33rd birthday.
Now Margarito has assumed his brother's place as the family man fighting, figuratively and literally, to take care of an extended family that includes his wife's three brothers -- one of whom wants to be a boxer.
"He wants to be like Tony. He doesn't want to study anymore," Michelle says of 16-year-old Hansel, who has won four of his first six bouts. "But Tony told him it's not so easy. You have to go to the gym and get better every day and keep knocking on doors like Tony did. Tony never let his opportunities pass."
Tonight he'll try to make sure the biggest one of his career doesn't get away either.
[email protected]
Veteran fighter says his dead brother visits him in his dreams, but it isn't a haunting, it's motivating. He'll carry Manuel's spirit into the ring against welterweight champion Cotto.
By Kevin Baxter, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 26, 2008
LAS VEGAS -- This week Antonio Margarito had a long talk with his brother, as he does before every big fight.
The two boxers chatted about everything and nothing, the way close brothers do when one's scared and the other's worried. And there'd be nothing unusual about any of this if not for the fact that Antonio Margarito's brother Manuel has been dead for eight years, shot in the back of the head in his Tijuana home.
"I'm always thinking of him," Margarito said. "One incredible thing about that is whenever a fight is near, I always dream of him. They're very realistic dreams. It's like he's right there with me."
He'll be with him again tonight when Margarito (36-5, 26 knockouts) climbs into the ring at the MGM Grand to face WBA welterweight champion Miguel Cotto (32-0, 26 KOs) in the biggest fight of his 15-year professional career.
Not only is Margarito guaranteed at least $1.6 million, by far the most he has ever earned, but a victory over the heavily favored Cotto could lead to even more lucrative fights against Oscar De La Hoya or Floyd Mayweather Jr., should he decide to come out of retirement.
It has been a long climb for Margarito, who was born in Torrance but grew up in a poor, lawless neighborhood in Tijuana. When he was in grade school his father introduced him and his brother to boxing and soon the boys were going straight from school to the gym.
After a while, they skipped the school part and just went to the gym. Their father agreed to look the other way as long as they gave everything they had to the sport.
"My dad told me there's a phrase that says anybody can be part of a group but to be a success you have to work harder," Margarito said in Spanish. "I always remembered that." Out of the ring, with his thick horn-rimmed glasses, the 30-year-old Margarito looks like an MBA student or an accountant. But the truth is, after dropping out of school in junior high, he became a pro fighter at 15 because he needed the money.
And though he won eight of his first nine fights, the bouts, all in northern Mexico, paid little. So Margarito made himself a promise: if he ever made money in the ring he would skip the cars and the bling and spend it on a house, something no one could take away from him.
"After that could come the cars or whatever," he said. "But first was going to come the house. And thank God I have it now."
But he didn't buy in Tijuana's surrounding hills, where many of the elite in the city of 1.5 million, Mexico's sixth largest, choose to live. That would have been too ostentatious for the son of a door-to-door salesman.
"Tony Margarito in Tijuana is Tony Margarito," said Michelle, his grade-school sweetheart and wife of eight years. "He's not better than anybody else or worse than anybody else."
While Margarito waited to get married, his brother didn't, quitting boxing after only four pro fights to start a family. Less than four years later, intruders burst into his home and shot him as he watched television, leaving a baby girl and a wife nearly eight months pregnant with his son.
Margarito, in Texas preparing to fight Buck Smith, had just returned from the weigh-in and a spaghetti dinner when he got the news. After a few moments of stunned silence, he started crying, then screaming.
But several hours later, after regrouping, he insisted the fight go on and the next night he dismantled Smith -- who came in with an amazing 179 victories to his credit -- in six rounds.
"My body was there," Margarito said. "But my mind wasn't."
Outside of family and a close circle of friends, Margarito rarely spoke of the tragedy.
"For many years that weighed on Tony's heart," Michelle said. "But Tony's the kind of person who keeps those things inside. He doesn't let people in. He's very guarded."
While robbery is suspected, a motive for the killing has never been determined -- partly because Michelle, wary of who might be involved, urged her husband to give up his investigation shortly after the murder.
"I told him, 'You know what? It's better if you stop all this,' " she said. "Your brother isn't going to come back. What happened happened. I understand he wants to know what happened to his brother and make the person that did it pay. But I was frightened for Tony and for the family."
Margarito spoke publicly about his brother in April, after he knocked out Kermit Cintron in the sixth round of a welterweight title fight on what would have been Manuel's 33rd birthday.
Now Margarito has assumed his brother's place as the family man fighting, figuratively and literally, to take care of an extended family that includes his wife's three brothers -- one of whom wants to be a boxer.
"He wants to be like Tony. He doesn't want to study anymore," Michelle says of 16-year-old Hansel, who has won four of his first six bouts. "But Tony told him it's not so easy. You have to go to the gym and get better every day and keep knocking on doors like Tony did. Tony never let his opportunities pass."
Tonight he'll try to make sure the biggest one of his career doesn't get away either.
[email protected]
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Remind me NEVER to visit Tijuana.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I regrettably and respectfully ask all posters that send me photos and articles, etc, etc to post for you, do not do so for a WHILE, as we're in total chaos here at home with my wife and her broken leg, as I'm doing everything around the house, I just don't have the time to do you justice on your photos, article, etc, etc, hope you all understand.
Thanks
Frank
Thanks
Frank
Last edited by kikibalt on 26 Jul 2008, 10:57, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
You're not wrong, Randy. I also feel that Hagler - so peeved at the audacity of Leonard - tried to humiliate Leonard by outboxing the boxer. He was making Leonard miss, and seemed to get a kick out of it, but he wasn't throwing enough back to make Leonard pay. Moreover, Leonard's shots were so flashy-looking, the crowd and the judges were lapping them up.Randyman wrote:Hagler made the same mistake with Sugar Ray leonard that he did with Roberto Duran. It almost cost him the fight with Duran and it definitely cost him the fight with Leonard, though I still thought he did enough to win. With both guys he gave too much respect to their cleverness. He was afraid of looking bad. He didn't commit to his punches. it's not so much that he was afraid of losing, he wasn't, but he was afraid of looking foolish, especially against Leonard, who he considered his inferior. Look at the fight again and you'll see what I mean.bennie wrote:Robinson was so good in those rematches, much like Napoles. Personally, I think The Sugar Man would have found a way to beat Marvin Hagler. Marvin was a great, great middleweight but not a great "thinking" fighter. He was too mechanical and focussed for that. I remember against Duran he would rush out at the bell and throw a long right from the orthodox stance. Duran could see it coming and countered with a hard right uppercut to the body. Bizarrely, and perhaps revealingly, Hagler continued to do exactly the same thing at the start of almost every round, even though he NEVER landed.kikibalt wrote:
Sugar Ray Robinson, New Middleweight Champion, Leaving Stadium after Defeating Carmen Basilio
Chicago...1958
Hagler just fought a stupid fight.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I'm sure they understand, Frankie. Thanks for keeping everyone informed.kikibalt wrote:I regrettably and respectfully ask all posters that send me photos and articles, etc, etc to post for you, do not do so for a WHILE, as we're in total chaos here at home with my wife and her broken leg, as I'm doing everything around the house, I just don't have the time to do you justice on your photos, article, etc, etc, hope you all understaned.
Thanks
Frank
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
bennie wrote:I'm sure they understand, Frankie. Thanks for keeping everyone informed.kikibalt wrote:I regrettably and respectfully ask all posters that send me photos and articles, etc, etc to post for you, do not do so for a WHILE, as we're in total chaos here at home with my wife and her broken leg, as I'm doing everything around the house, I just don't have the time to do you justice on your photos, article, etc, etc, hope you all understaned.
Thanks
Frank
Thanks Bennie...
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Throwback fight, this. If I had to bet my life on it, I would bet on Cotto.kikibalt wrote:
Miguel Cotto, left, and Antonio Margarito will fight Saturday in Las Vegas, with a possible fight against Oscar De La Hoya awaiting the winner.
(Jason DeCrow / AP)
July 25, 2008
My son Bobby is picking Margarito by KO, I don't know about that....
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
You would think that Cotto would win, he is the better alround fighter after all, but Marg. is one tough s-b, he doesn't have all the skills, but neither did Basillo or Fullmer and look who they beat, but if I had to bet the ranch, I too would pick Cotto.bennie wrote:Throwback fight, this. If I had to bet my life on it, I would bet on Cotto.kikibalt wrote:
Miguel Cotto, left, and Antonio Margarito will fight Saturday in Las Vegas, with a possible fight against Oscar De La Hoya awaiting the winner.
(Jason DeCrow / AP)
July 25, 2008
My son Bobby is picking Margarito by KO, I don't know about that....
Not that I have a ranch to bet...
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Nice payday for Margarito.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I'm happy for Marg. in that he is getting a good pay day, most guys fight their whole career with out getting one, it just not fair.... :xbennie wrote:Nice payday for Margarito.