Post Your Scorecards

[scartissue]

Just watched the first fight between Emile Griffith and Benny (Kid) Paret. At times both these fighters shone, but then it would go into some heavy mauling. Griffith was best from the outside but would always get sucked into the inside where Paret was very strong and really liked working the body. I haven't seen a lot on Paret but he would have been a handful for anyone. Anyways, 10 point must system in effect.

Round 1: 10-9 Paret
Round 2: 10-9 Paret
Round 3: 10-9 Griffith
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Griffith
Round 6: 10-9 Paret
Round 7: 10-10 Even (mauling)
Round 8: 10-9 Paret
Round 9: 10-9 Griffith
Round 10: 10-10 Even (Paret was winning the round until Griffith hurt him towards the end of the round)
Round 11: 10-9 Griffith
Round 12: 10-9 Griffith
Round 13: Griffith KO's Paret

Total through 12 rounds: 116-115 Griffith

So many of these rounds are so close that this was anyone's fight. Even those last two rounds I gave Griffith - the 11th and 12th - so close. No one had really gained an advantage over the other. If anyone else had it for Paret until this point I would give a thumbs up because it was up in the air. Incidentally, the officials cards through 12 were one for Paret, one for Griffith and the last one even.

[elmersalsa]

Just watched the first fight between Emile Griffith and Benny (Kid) Paret. At times both these fighters shone, but then it would go into some heavy mauling. Griffith was best from the outside but would always get sucked into the inside where Paret was very strong and really liked working the body. I haven't seen a lot on Paret but he would have been a handful for anyone. Anyways, 10 point must system in effect.

Round 1: 10-9 Paret
Round 2: 10-9 Paret
Round 3: 10-9 Griffith
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Griffith
Round 6: 10-9 Paret
Round 7: 10-10 Even (mauling)
Round 8: 10-9 Paret
Round 9: 10-9 Griffith
Round 10: 10-10 Even (Paret was winning the round until Griffith hurt him towards the end of the round)
Round 11: 10-9 Griffith
Round 12: 10-9 Griffith
Round 13: Griffith KO's Paret

Total through 12 rounds: 116-115 Griffith

So many of these rounds are so close that this was anyone's fight. Even those last two rounds I gave Griffith - the 11th and 12th - so close. No one had really gained an advantage over the other. If anyone else had it for Paret until this point I would give a thumbs up because it was up in the air. Incidentally, the officials cards through 12 were one for Paret, one for Griffith and the last one even.

Benny "Kid" Paret always made it tough for the great Emile Griffith. All three of their fights were in the same pattern. Griffith was a little better.

[scartissue]

Elmer, have you ever seen the 4th fight between Griffith and Luis Rodriguez? It really is a must for those of us scoring fights because IMO this was way off. I posted this last year but here it is again. 5 point must system, Griffith-Rodriguez IV


Round 1: 5-4 EG
Round 2: 5-4 LR
Round 3: 4-4 Even (I had Rodriguez winning this one but 1 point was deducted for a low blow)
Round 4: 5-4 LR
Round 5: 5-4 LR
Round 6: 5-4 LR
Round 7: 5-4 LR
Round 8: 5-4 LR
Round 9: 5-4 LR
Round 10: 5-5 Even
Round 11: 5-4 LR
Round 12: 5-4 EG
Round 13: 5-5 Even
Round 14: 5-4 EG
Round 15: 5-4 LR

I had it 71-65 for Rodriguez. I cannot come up with any way possible of favoring Griffith in this one. For me, Rodriguez is simply the busier fighter. I think his body work was really ignored in this one. Perhaps the key is when Dunphy mentions Griffith was catching a lot on his arms. i don't know. Maybe at ringside it looked different, but on youtube, even allowing for Griffith catching blows, Rodriguez was still the busier fighter. And as the fight wore on Griffith's body language told a tale. One could see him shifting and grimacing when Rodriguez was going to the body. These blows were getting through and telling. I'm always confident in my scoring, but I will admit that I'm obviously at odds with what was written.

[Seamus]

Yoko Gushiken vs Jaime Rios II

R1.10-9 YG
R2.10-9 YG
R3.10-9 JR
R4.10-10
R5.10-9 YG
R6.10-9 YG
R7.10-8 YG (Rios down from a flurry after what looked like a right hook to the jaw)
R8.10-9 YG
R9.10-9 YG
R10.10-10
R11.10-9 YG
R12.10-9 YG
R13. Fight stopped with Rios defenseless in a corner. 119-110 for Yoko Gushiken at the time

Gushiken methodically broke down Rios with a sustained body attack which prevented much of the Panamanian's frenzied movement seen in the 1st meeting.

Hilario Zapata vs German Torres

R1.10-10
R2.10-9 GT
R3.10-9 HZ
R4.10-9 HZ
R5.10-9 HZ
R6.10-9 GT
R7.10-9 HZ
R8.10-9 GT
R9.10-9 HZ
R10.10-9 HZ
R11.10-9 HZ
R12.10-10
R13.10-9 HZ
R14.10-9 HZ
R15.10-9 GT

Hilario Zapata 146-141

A clear win for Zapata, though I saw it closer than the judges who had him winning by 11-11-10 pts. Not a particularly exciting fight for this weight class either as Zapata a defensive specialist was up against a guy who often looked tentative.

[scartissue]

I remember watching the Davey Moore-Ayub Kalule fight back in the day and - while not scoring it - I was feeling that Moore was ahead. Official cards favored Moore also. But I recall reading Flash Gordon's report on the fight (for any of you who remember this very eccentric writer) and he had it 5-4 Kalule before the 10th round stoppage (BTW, a bit premature for my liking). Anyways, pen to paper, 10 point must system.

Round 1: 10-9 Kalule
Round 2: 10-9 Kalule
Round 3: 10-9 Kalule
Round 4: 10-9 Moore
Round 5: 10-9 Moore
Round 6: 10-9 Moore
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Kalule
Round 9: 10-9 Moore
Round 10: Moore stops Kalule

Total through 9 rounds: 86-86 Even

I'm not going to say it was anyone's fight, because Kalule's stamina at this point was very questionable. His promoter/Manager Mogens Palle moved him down to Jr. Middle in order to fight for that title (Kalule was Commonwealth middleweight champ at the time) and he freely admitted he practically had to cut off a limb in order to get him to 154. By this stage of the game Kalule was dead at the weight and you could see him fatigueing. It's testament how good he could have been at 160 when he mounted a comeback a few years later at his natural 160 and -even though past his prime - still managed to win the European title and beat Sumbu Kalambay and Lindell Holmes along the way. It would have been great to see him in his prime in the 160 era along with Hagler, Minter, Sibson, Antuofermo, Hamsho, etc. He had that Emile Griffith upper body and may have done well being able to flex his true weight.

[Counter-puncher]

I never knew that about Kalule, interesting points. Any win over Kalumbay is a good one, id love to hear from anyone who saw that one, as if someone asked me to predict it, I would have Kalumbay.outboxing him comfortably.

[Seamus]

My scorecard for Kalule v Kalambay is in this thread.

[scartissue]

Just watched Kalule-Kalambay and Seamus and I had very similar cards. It was back and forth and no one taking a consecutive round. Strange seeing Kalule as Joe Frazier to Kalambay's Ali. Kalambay had such a strong fast jab, but he primarily used that rather than engage. In fact, I think this was what cost him the fight. When Kalule would attack there was never really any firepower coming back towards him. Kalambay only tended to sharp-shoot when he was ring center and could employ the jab and then fire off a combo once he assumed control. Anyways, here is my card.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Kalule
Round 3: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 4: 10-9 Kalule
Round 5: 10-8 Kalambay (scores a knockdown)
Round 6: 10-9 Kalule
Round 7: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 8: 10-9 Kalule
Round 9: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 10: 10-9 Kalule
Round 11: 10-8 Kalambay (scores a knockdown)
Round 12: 10-8 Kalule (scores a knockdown)

Total: 113-113 Draw

[scartissue]

Got Jeff Fenech in my head and just watched 3 fights of his that I never watched before. Here we go, all 10 point must system in effect.

Jeff Fenech vs, Daniel Zaragoza 10 rounds

Round 1: 10-9 Fenech
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Fenech
Round 4: 10-8 Fenech (point deducted from Zaragoza for low blow)
Round 5: 10-9 Zaragoza
Round 6: 10-9 Zaragoza
Round 7: 10-9 Fenech
Round 8: 10-9 Fenech
Round 9: 10-9 Fenech
Round 10: 10-9 Fenech

Total: 98-92 Fenech

I should mention that Fenech was able to get away with a lot of rough stuff and it was laughable docking Zaragoza as opposed for what Jeff got away with.

Jeff Fenech vs. Carlos Zarate

Round1: 10-9 Fenech
Round 2: 10-9 Fenech
Round 3: 10-8 Fenech (point deducted for low blow)
Round 4: 10-8 Fenech (scores a knockdown)

Total: 40-33 Fenech

Fight is stopped between the 4th and 5th due to a cut below Fenech's eye. Zarate believes he just won and is euphoric and appears to taunt Fenech, who goes after Zarate. The funny thing is the ref Henry Elespru appears to follow the instruction of the Fenech corner. They say the cut was caused be a headbutt and he follows their instructions to a tee. You can even hear him say to a judge to deduct a point from Zarate if it's stopped (I don't know if anyone did). Zarate didn't look too bad even though Fenech was on top and that 3rd round was damn close. There was a long way to go and Zarate was landing those left hooks to the liver steadily. BTW, the cut may have been from a butt but would have been from Fenech's head work. I would have liked to have seen it go further. A cut under the eye wasn't that critical.

Jeff Fenech vs. Mario Martinez 12 rounds

Round 1: 10-9 Fenech
Round 2: 10-9 Fenech
Round 3: 10-9 Fenech
Round 4: 10-9 Fenech
Round 6: 10-8 Martinez (scores a knockdown)
Round 7: 10-9 Martinez
Round 8: 10-9 Fenech
Round 9: 10-9 Fenech
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Martinez
Round 12: 10-9 Fenech

Total: 116-112 Fenech

You have to give it to Fenech who really messed up his hands during the fight, but kept digging in and staying busy.

[scartissue]

Carmen Basilio v Johnny Saxton I

Always wanted to see this one. My Dad attended this one in Chicago Stadium and always said Basilio was robbed. The film is not too shabby at all. Here we go.

Round 1: 10-9 Basilio
Round 2: 10-9 Basilio
Round 3: 10-9 Basilio
Round 4: 10-9 Basilio
Round 5: 10-9 Basilio
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Saxton
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Basilio
Round 11: 10-9 Saxton
Round 12: 10-9 Saxton
Round 13: 10-9 Saxton
Round 14: 10-9 Basilio
Round 15: 10-9 Basilio

Total: 146-142 Basilio

Dad was right. I believe Basilio's bodywork had to be ignored in this one for the judges to go unanimously for Saxton. Or...rumors of a fix was real.

[davie]

Muhammad Ali vs Jimmy Young

9 - 10
9 - 10
9 - 10
10 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
9 - 10
9 - 10
9 - 10
10 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
10 - 9

142 - 145 Young
Or 8-5-2 in rounds (I'm not entirely sure how the scoring of that time went, does that make it 70-67?).

Anyway, Ali was dismally poor in that fight and I could have scored one or two of the Ali rounds a draw or worse. I suspect I was actually too generous to Ali.
Young was keen and plucky, countered well and made Ali miss a lot. He was also brave at times when Ali tried to step up a gear (which wasn't nearly often enough) but no doubt about it, Ali was out of shape and looked uninterested.
The first thing I noticed was the shape he was in. And I've gone back and looked at his record, 230lbs was a career high, he was 6lbs heavier than he'd been 6 months earlier in Manila and came in 10lbs lighter only 1 month later against Dunn.

A poor show and the beginning of the end for The Greatest

[davie]

Floyd Mayweather vs Jose Luis Castillo 1

10 - 9
10 - 9
10 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
9 - 10
9 - 9 - 1 pt off JLC
10 - 9
9 - 9 - 1 pt off FMJ
9 - 10
9 - 10
114 - 113 - Floyd Mayweather.

I know this is a controversial one, but I called it as I saw it.

I'll start by saying Drakulich ruined it for me. I felt the 2nd round knock down should probably have stood, as light as it perhaps was.
He deducted a point for hitting after the bell in the 8th, which I felt was harsh on Castillo.
But if he classed that a punch after the bell, Mayweather should have had a point off for the same in the 9th.
Floyd then lost a point for an elbow. It wasn't a thrown elbow, just kind of pushed into the chest/throat.
He had been warned for consistent pushing, so had he used pushing to deduct the point, I'd have agreed but he said it was an elbow, which I again felt was harsh given Castillo stood and threw 3 punches from behind Floyd earlier in the round.
He also threw several low blows throughout the fight, particularly that 10 and 11th round that went unpunished and to top it off, Drakulich split them on several occasions where they were not needing split up.
Shocking display from the ref and as such that fight could probably have swung a few points either way.

But as I scored it, I had Floyd 1 round up. I can see the argument for it going a little either way but I don't see the daylight robbery some make out.

[davie]

Pernell Whitaker vs Jose Luis Ramirez 1

10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 10
9 -10
10 - 9
9 - 10
10 - 10
10 - 9

117 - 114 Pernell Whitaker

Lots of close rounds and Whitaker not at his best but I thought he did enough.
Looked in control for the majority of the fight but never did himself a lot of favours, fighting away from home and trying to win rounds with the jab, really needed to let his right hand go a bit more and not rely on single shots, a few more combinations might have done more to deter Ramirez forward march.
He also showed a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes with his footwork, squaring up, getting his feet crossed and finding himself with his back turned to a pursuing opponent, probably fortunate that a combination of Ramirez slow reactions and his own good upper body reflexes got him out of trouble in a few of those situations.

Not hugely impressed with Ramirez either. This is the first I've watched him and he was pretty basic and quite slow with his hands, although he was over 100 fights at this point. I'd have expected Whitaker to deal with him more emphatically

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I thought Whitaker won 11 rounds. Ramirez two fights with Rosario and arguello are excellent.

[davie]

I thought Whitaker won 11 rounds. Ramirez two fights with Rosario and arguello are excellent.

A couple of the rounds I gave to Ramirez, I did so for just a couple moments of success, in rounds where Whitaker had controlled the majority but didn't do anything of note to win the round. I dare say I wouldn't complain at the 3 10-10 rounds going either way.
So I could see it go that way.

What I can't see is how one judge gave it wide for Ramirez, Whitaker was far from dominant but he won the fight

[Counter-puncher]

I thought Whitaker won 11 rounds. Ramirez two fights with Rosario and arguello are excellent.

A couple of the rounds I gave to Ramirez, I did so for just a couple moments of success, in rounds where Whitaker had controlled the majority but didn't do anything of note to win the round. I dare say I wouldn't complain at the 3 10-10 rounds going either way.
So I could see it go that way.

What I can't see is how one judge gave it wide for Ramirez, Whitaker was far from dominant but he won the fight

the rematch is unequivocal

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I thought Whitaker won 11 rounds. Ramirez two fights with Rosario and arguello are excellent.

A couple of the rounds I gave to Ramirez, I did so for just a couple moments of success, in rounds where Whitaker had controlled the majority but didn't do anything of note to win the round. I dare say I wouldn't complain at the 3 10-10 rounds going either way.
So I could see it go that way.

What I can't see is how one judge gave it wide for Ramirez, Whitaker was far from dominant but he won the fight

I thought he was completely dominant. One of the worst decisions in history.

[Ambling Alp II]

Floyd Mayweather vs Jose Luis Castillo 1

10 - 9
10 - 9
10 - 10
10 - 9
10 - 9
9 - 10
9 - 10
9 - 9 - 1 pt off JLC
10 - 9
9 - 9 - 1 pt off FMJ
9 - 10
9 - 10
114 - 113 - Floyd Mayweather.

I know this is a controversial one, but I called it as I saw it.

I'll start by saying Drakulich ruined it for me. I felt the 2nd round knock down should probably have stood, as light as it perhaps was.
He deducted a point for hitting after the bell in the 8th, which I felt was harsh on Castillo.
But if he classed that a punch after the bell, Mayweather should have had a point off for the same in the 9th.
Floyd then lost a point for an elbow. It wasn't a thrown elbow, just kind of pushed into the chest/throat.
He had been warned for consistent pushing, so had he used pushing to deduct the point, I'd have agreed but he said it was an elbow, which I again felt was harsh given Castillo stood and threw 3 punches from behind Floyd earlier in the round.
He also threw several low blows throughout the fight, particularly that 10 and 11th round that went unpunished and to top it off, Drakulich split them on several occasions where they were not needing split up.
Shocking display from the ref and as such that fight could probably have swung a few points either way.

But as I scored it, I had Floyd 1 round up. I can see the argument for it going a little either way but I don't see the daylight robbery some make out.

That was an absolute robbery. Mayweather did almost nothing in that fight.

[davie]

Thurman vs Porter

Thurman
Porter
Porter
Thurman
Thurman
Thurman
Porter
Even
Thurman
Thurman
Thurman
Thurman

117-112 Thurman for me
I know this is a recent fight, but it happened over 2 weeks ago, so that makes it history and it was an absolute classic, so I think it earns it's place in here

[scartissue]

Always loved an Armando Muniz fight and he was always a favorite of mine. I recall being shocked over him losing to Jose Palacios, but by then he was tending to run hot and cold. Nevertheless, a good fight and here we go by way of the 10 point must system.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-8 Palacios (scored a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Palacios
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Muniz
Round 6: 10-9 Palacios
Round 7: 10-9 Muniz
Round 8: 10-9 Palacios
Round 9: 10-9 Palacios
Round 10: 10-10 Even

Total: 98-94 Palacios

Don't believe Muniz ever recovered from that knockdown in the 2nd round. One of only 3 times he was down in his career. Tough fight.

[scartissue]

DeLaHoya vs. Trinidad

Can't believe I've never re-sat down to score this fight. As a fan of Tito's I really wanted to see him win, but while I'm cheering for a fighter I don't really sit back impartially to score. So now I am.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 4: 10-9 Trinidad
Round 5: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 6: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 7: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 8: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 9: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 10: 10-9 Trinidad
Round 11: 10-9 Trinidad
Round 12: 10-9 Trinidad

Total: 116-114 DeLaHoya

If it wasn't for the fact that I enjoy and need to hear the impact of punches, I would turn the volume down and avoid some of the blather that some announcers foist on the audience. Round 9 for example. I was stunned that Harold scored it for Felix but to hear Lampley say that it was one of Trinidad's best rounds. I was like, 'huh?!' I felt that was a very comfortable round for Oscar. What can you do?

[elmersalsa]

DeLaHoya vs. Trinidad

Can't believe I've never re-sat down to score this fight. As a fan of Tito's I really wanted to see him win, but while I'm cheering for a fighter I don't really sit back impartially to score. So now I am.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 4: 10-9 Trinidad
Round 5: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 6: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 7: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 8: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 9: 10-9 DeLaHoya
Round 10: 10-9 Trinidad
Round 11: 10-9 Trinidad
Round 12: 10-9 Trinidad

Total: 116-114 DeLaHoya

If it wasn't for the fact that I enjoy and need to hear the impact of punches, I would turn the volume down and avoid some of the blather that some announcers foist on the audience. Round 9 for example. I was stunned that Harold scored it for Felix but to hear Lampley say that it was one of Trinidad's best rounds. I was like, 'huh?!' I felt that was a very comfortable round for Oscar. What can you do?

I remember that this fight was one of the BIGGEST DISSAPOINTMENTS for me as a boxing fan. It was a total garbage for all the fanfare, promotion and hoopla that this fight was supposed to be after the Tyson vs Holyfield II fiasco. It was the fight to save boxing. And from then, boxing was the end for me. What a piece of garbage this fight was.

[Kalan]

Lennox Lewis beat Evander Holyfield in both fights by scores of 119-109 and 117-111.

Mosley beat DLH twice 117-111 and 115-113

Trinidad beat DLH 114-113...Oscar should have been deducted a point for excessive running in the 12th round and each won 6 rounds

B-Hop beat Jermain Taylor in both fights, by landing the cleaner, more effective, and more numerous punches in both fights

Mayweather beat Castiillo twice very clearly -- and beat DLH, Maidana, and Pacquiao by clear margins

VItali Klitschko beat Lennox Lewis by Unanimous Technical Decision... Foul blows contributed to the cuts and he was winning on all scorecards

Pernell Whitaker beat Julio Cesar Chavez 118-110.

Julio Cesar Chavez was well ahead of Meldrick Taylor on my scorecard -- based on fewer but more damaging punches landed in 8 rounds

Antonio Margarito beat Miguel Cotto with plastered hand wraps -- and the result should be reversed and Cotto declared the winner by DQ

Felix Sturm beat Oscar De La Hoya 117-111

Ken Norton won all 3 Ali fights on my cards

Max Schmeling beat Jack Sharkey twice -- once by DQ and once he should have gotten the decision 10 rounds to 5

Joey Giardello should have beaten Gene Fullmer, either by DQ or by 5 rounds.

Muhammad Ali should have been DQ'd in Ali-Liston II... For refusing the referee's orders to go to a neutral corner for the entire count.

Marvin Hagler beat Vito Anteufermo twice --

Erislandy Lara beat Paul Williams 118-110 and beat Canelo Alvarez 116-112

The heat didn't beat Sugar Ray Robinson in his fight with Joey Maxim -- because it was just as hot for Maxim and he paced himself much better

... and I could go on forever because Boxing has a long history of injustices -- and alleged injustices

[Counter-puncher]

This thread has always been a non-partisan space for sharing, please, nobody respond.

[Kalan]

That was a non-partisan post... So why don't you take your partisan opinions elsewhere???? ... Nobody agrees on everything, but many agree with much of the above