Classic American West Coast Boxing

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[bennie]

"Let's take a walk - anywhere, up on the roof." Eddie Simms to referee Arthur Donovan.

Donovan had just asked the fighter if he was OK following a first-round knockdown at the hands of Joe Louis in 1936.

[bennie]

Roberto Duran

"El Cholo"
By Diego

Duran! Walk into him and he would beat you. That's why he beat Barkley in 1989 at middleweight, in one of the worst snowstorms ever seen in Atlantic City. Duran literally whipped up a storm at the age of 37.

[bennie]

No doubt about it, Frankie, you American guys have the best cars in the world.

[Randyman]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I agree. Look at the way the cable stations promote boxers, and the big show as a fighter enters the ring. I loved Tyson just coming down the aisle like a warrior, ala Dempsey. How I enjoyed watching little Prince Hamed entering the ring on a flying carpet, only to get his ass-kicked by Marco Antonio Barrera, a REAL Mexican fighter. What happened to the Prince afterwards? He disappeared and has yet to show his face anywhere near a boxing ring. And Mando Ramos? There was a guy who could generate true excitement just nodding his head to the crowd. Today, we have rap music and guys spending more thought on choreographing a ring entrance than defeating their opponents. Hey Randy, what do you think Mel Epstein would say about Floyd Mayweather Jr.???

-Rick

Rick, I know what he would say about Mayweather and so do you but there may be children lurking around, so I'll just say he wouldn't like him, I'm certain of that. More than that, I think he would be disappointed with many of todays fighters. Not so much that I 100% agree with him, but I remember how he felt about the changes that were taking place in the 70's. He did not care for Ali. He considered Ali a loudmouth. He believed that Dempsey, Louis and Marciano would have been too much for Ali. Again, I don't exactly agree with him. Mel was a man of character and integrity and had total disdain for fighters that didn't have at least a trace of either. Mel was an anachronism. He belonged to an earlier time. Like almost every one of us, he believed that the fighters of his era, his time, were the best. Maybe he knew best.

The fighters Mel admired and spoke about were real men, in the most basic sense, no frills, no wasted words or theatrics. As much as I like Oscar De La Hoya, I believe that Mel would have considered him a sissy. I don't share that opinion but I'm almost certain that would have been his opinion. The mere mention of Mayweather's name would have produced that scowl that he used to show his hatred or anger with someone, and his eyed would have been darting side to side, then he would have walked away in disgust, as if to punctuate his statement.

There are few men like Mel left anymore. Men that love boxing for the sake of boxing. He could care less about the politics of boxing. it was the fighting that took place inside the ring that moved him. Our own Frank Baltazar has that in him. We need more real men in boxing.

Randy

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No doubt about it, Frankie, you American guys have the best cars in the world.

We used too, Bennie, now the Japanese imo have the best cars....

I had a 1955 Buick, which I think was the best car I ever had, I have a photo of it, with my daughter when she was about 10 years old, I'll post it.

[kikibalt]

Bennie,

My 1955 Buick with my daughter, Linda, standing along side of it, on the day she made her First Holy Communion, we're Catholic's, circa..1963.

[kikibalt]

Bert Colima

"Geeve eet to heem Col-lee-mah"
By Diego

[kikibalt]

Colin Jones vs Donald Curry

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[BoxBuzz]

this thread continues to be a "priceless time capsule" and like a fine wine will only improve with age.

IMHO.

[Rick Farris]

Ace Hudkins vs Bert Colima

Ace Hudkins was a friend of my Grandfather. He used to be a studio wrangler after he retired, and spent his money investing in a ranch that sat right across the L.A. river from Warner Bros. in Burbank. When my mom was a teenager, my grandfather taught her how to drive on Hudkins Ranch property. Today, the property is Forest Lawn Cemetery (and has been for more than half century). As a little boy, I met Hudkins in a super market when he and my grandad met and visited. Ace picked me up and I still remember how scary the guy looked. Half his face was blue, due to some blood condtion he had, and that busted nose and scar tissue. He laughed and told my grandfather I was a fighter, I didn't blink when staring at his busted up face. In the mid-70's, long after my grandfather's death, I would attend Hudkins funeral,and view his body at the Burbank Mortuary. Ace made a lot of money renting horses, buck boards and stage coaches to Warner Bros. for Western productions. Ace Hudkins was a REAL fighter, we'll never see a guy like him again.

-Rick Farris

Great story about Hudkins Rick.
Ace Hudkins was one of those fighters that you wouldnt want anything to do with if you didnt know how to fight.
You know what I mean. There are some fighters through history like that. Fighters fighters.
This guy would hang with anyone and kick the shit out of all but the all time greats and even those guys would catch hell from the "Nebraska Wildcat".
Ruby Goldstein was touted as a cant miss champion. He was knockin out everyone, undefeated and a big NY hero.
That is until they put him in with Hudkins who stretched him.
Ruby might not have been the same fighter after that.

Youre right about Hudkins pug, a guy who spelled trouble for anybody on any night. He competed with the best, but consider the competition?
Don't you wish you could go to sleep, and drift back into the past to a ringside seat at one of Hudkins war's, maybe Mickey Walker? Wouldn't it be fun to be within inches of these two all-time greats? Of course, most of us who post here have been within inches of such ring fury with equal or greater boxing legends. That's what makes this thread so different from the rest. This thread isn't about "opinion", so much as it is facts, up close and personal facts.

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

this thread continues to be a "priceless time capsule" and like a fine wine will only improve with age.

IMHO.

Buzz . . . We've only just begun. More to be revealed!

[Expug]

Rick, I would have loved to have seen Walker - Hudkins as much as any fight in history I can think of.
And I do feel fortunate as I look back many years to have been around a few of boxings greats.
I only had a handful of pro fights, but being from a big city (Chicago), I have been in the gym or sparred with some big names I guess.

Ive mentioned the story about Duran a couple times, but what the heck I'll roll it again.
In 88 , he came to Chicago to fight a kid named Jeff Lanas.
He came to the gym I trained at called Fuller Park on the Southside and he was with former title holder Juan Nazario who was gonna fight on the same card.
He and Nazario one day were in the ring sparring , and Duran was just going through the motions , what it boils down to is Nazario was punching the shit out of him as Duran wasnt in too ggod shape.
Im right next to the ring hitting the speed bag , and as is often the case with the speedbag or the rope,
Sometimes you will just keep going after the bell ends the round.
Thats what I did and evidently Duran didnt like it as he walked over to the edge of the ring and started staring at me with his Charles Manson eyes. Clearly he was in a pissed off mood.
Well , hell this is the gym I worked out at so I wasnt gonna take crap from him or anyone so I stopped what I was doing and walked over and stared right back.
We glared at each other for what seemed like a good while, he may have mumbled something, I dont remember and I wouldnt have understood anyway.
The round started and he slowly went back to working with Nazario.
I laugh at stuff like that now.
It was almost a REAL brush with greatness.

[Rick Farris]

Roberto Duran

"El Cholo"
By Diego

Duran! Walk into him and he would beat you. That's why he beat Barkley in 1989 at middleweight, in one of the worst snowstorms ever seen in Atlantic City. Duran literally whipped up a storm at the age of 37.

Amen! Dagos, I bet Duran at 3-1 under (I remember betting Duran at +280 in Cesars Palace in '89). Duran turned 38 less than three months after upsetting Barkley, whom had just flattened Tommy Hearns a few months prior. Barkley had vowed revenge for his friend Davey Moore, whom Roberto had castrated prior to Moore's accidental death just months later. Well, maybe in another life time Iran?

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I agree. Look at the way the cable stations promote boxers, and the big show as a fighter enters the ring. I loved Tyson just coming down the aisle like a warrior, ala Dempsey. How I enjoyed watching little Prince Hamed entering the ring on a flying carpet, only to get his ass-kicked by Marco Antonio Barrera, a REAL Mexican fighter. What happened to the Prince afterwards? He disappeared and has yet to show his face anywhere near a boxing ring. And Mando Ramos? There was a guy who could generate true excitement just nodding his head to the crowd. Today, we have rap music and guys spending more thought on choreographing a ring entrance than defeating their opponents. Hey Randy, what do you think Mel Epstein would say about Floyd Mayweather Jr.???


-Rick

Rick, I know what he would say about Mayweather and so do you but there may be children lurking around, so I'll just say he wouldn't like him, I'm certain of that. More than that, I think he would be disappointed with many of todays fighters. Not so much that I 100% agree with him, but I remember how he felt about the changes that were taking place in the 70's. He did not care for Ali. He considered Ali a loudmouth. He believed that Dempsey, Louis and Marciano would have been too much for Ali. Again, I don't exactly agree with him. Mel was a man of character and integrity and had total disdain for fighters that didn't have at least a trace of either. Mel was an anachronism. He belonged to an earlier time. Like almost every one of us, he believed that the fighters of his era, his time, were the best. Maybe he knew best.

The fighters Mel admired and spoke about were real men, in the most basic sense, no frills, no wasted words or theatrics. As much as I like Oscar De La Hoya, I believe that Mel would have considered him a sissy. I don't share that opinion but I'm almost certain that would have been his opinion. The mere mention of Mayweather's name would have produced that scowl that he used to show his hatred or anger with someone, and his eyed would have been darting side to side, then he would have walked away in disgust, as if to punctuate his statement.

There are few men like Mel left anymore. Men that love boxing for the sake of boxing. He could care less about the politics of boxing. it was the fighting that took place inside the ring that moved him. Our own Frank Baltazar has that in him. We need more real men in boxing.

Randy

WOW! You said it ALL Randy. Beautifully written . . .


-Rick

[Rick Farris]

Rick, I would have loved to have seen Walker - Hudkins as much as any fight in history I can think of.
And I do feel fortunate as I look back many years to have been around a few of boxings greats.
I only had a handful of pro fights, but being from a big city (Chicago), I have been in the gym or sparred with some big names I guess.

Ive mentioned the story about Duran a couple times, but what the heck I'll roll it again.
In 88 , he came to Chicago to fight a kid named Jeff Lanas.
He came to the gym I trained at called Fuller Park on the Southside and he was with former title holder Juan Nazario who was gonna fight on the same card.
He and Nazario one day were in the ring sparring , and Duran was just going through the motions , what it boils down to is Nazario was punching the shit out of him as Duran wasnt in too ggod shape.
Im right next to the ring hitting the speed bag , and as is often the case with the speedbag or the rope,
Sometimes you will just keep going after the bell ends the round.
Thats what I did and evidently Duran didnt like it as he walked over to the edge of the ring and started staring at me with his Charles Manson eyes. Clearly he was in a pissed off mood.
Well , hell this is the gym I worked out at so I wasnt gonna take crap from him or anyone so I stopped what I was doing and walked over and stared right back.
We glared at each other for what seemed like a good while, he may have mumbled something, I dont remember and I wouldnt have understood anyway.
The round started and he slowly went back to working with Nazario.
I laugh at stuff like that now.
It was almost a REAL brush with greatness.

Pug, very interesting story and I kinda understand exactly how you felt. I had a strange experience with Mantequilla Napoles at the gym in 71. He put me in a disrespectful situation and I had to stand up. Luckily for me, nothing happened, but it wasn't a matter winning or losing, I had no physical chance of winning, but I didn't lose, he was an asshole, and he was stood up to by a 19-year-old featherweight prelim fighter, in the house to spar with Olivares. Fighters don't back down from other fighters, regardless of who they are. Had he kicked my ass, I'd have gotten myself together and returned with a baseball bat and hit the F_CK in the head, or shot him, whatever it took? (I'm not joking)


-Rick

[Randyman]

Roberto Duran

"El Cholo"
By Diego

Duran! Walk into him and he would beat you. That's why he beat Barkley in 1989 at middleweight, in one of the worst snowstorms ever seen in Atlantic City. Duran literally whipped up a storm at the age of 37.

Amen! Dagos, I bet Duran at 3-1 under (I remember betting Duran at +280 in Cesars Palace in '89). Duran turned 38 less than three months after upsetting Barkley, whom had just flattened Tommy Hearns a few months prior. Barkley had vowed revenge for his friend Davey Moore, whom Roberto had castrated prior to Moore's accidental death just months later. Well, maybe in another life time Iran?

-Rick

Roberto Duran's victory over Iran Barkley in 1989 has to be considered nothing short of phenomenal. Duran, nearing forty and really just a blown up lightweight, albeit in my book the greatest lightweight, beating a large, very physical, middleweight champion like Barkley. It boggles the mind. I don't believe that, historically, that fight is given proper credit. Maybe it's just me.

It must give Duran some measure of satisfaction at this point in time, when one can really look at his career with some historical perspective, and realize that in his second career, that as a welterweight and later, a middleweight he more than held his own. He was knocked out by Tommy Hearns, but went the distance in a close fight with Marvin Hagler, he beat Barkley and was the first man to best Sugar Ray Leonard. Of course, as we all know, Leonard, Hagler and Barkley all beat Hearns. When you consider that Duran turned pro in 1967, won the lightweight title in 1972 and held it for seven years, then moved up to the welters, you just have to consider him phenomenal. I hope he takes some comfort in that.

[Expug]

That fight that Duran won against Barkley shocked me.
I was at the aformentioned fight that he had with Jeff Lanas right before Barkley and Roberto looked awful.
In fact I thought the dec. against Lanas could have gone either way.
Then Duran turns around and beats a tough Iran Barkley.

[Expug]

Rick, I would have loved to have seen Walker - Hudkins as much as any fight in history I can think of.
And I do feel fortunate as I look back many years to have been around a few of boxings greats.
I only had a handful of pro fights, but being from a big city (Chicago), I have been in the gym or sparred with some big names I guess.

Ive mentioned the story about Duran a couple times, but what the heck I'll roll it again.
In 88 , he came to Chicago to fight a kid named Jeff Lanas.
He came to the gym I trained at called Fuller Park on the Southside and he was with former title holder Juan Nazario who was gonna fight on the same card.
He and Nazario one day were in the ring sparring , and Duran was just going through the motions , what it boils down to is Nazario was punching the shit out of him as Duran wasnt in too ggod shape.
Im right next to the ring hitting the speed bag , and as is often the case with the speedbag or the rope,
Sometimes you will just keep going after the bell ends the round.
Thats what I did and evidently Duran didnt like it as he walked over to the edge of the ring and started staring at me with his Charles Manson eyes. Clearly he was in a pissed off mood.
Well , hell this is the gym I worked out at so I wasnt gonna take crap from him or anyone so I stopped what I was doing and walked over and stared right back.
We glared at each other for what seemed like a good while, he may have mumbled something, I dont remember and I wouldnt have understood anyway.
The round started and he slowly went back to working with Nazario.
I laugh at stuff like that now.
It was almost a REAL brush with greatness.

Pug, very interesting story and I kinda understand exactly how you felt. I had a strange experience with Mantequilla Napoles at the gym in 71. He put me in a disrespectful situation and I had to stand up. Luckily for me, nothing happened, but it wasn't a matter winning or losing, I had no physical chance of winning, but I didn't lose, he was an asshole, and he was stood up to by a 19-year-old featherweight prelim fighter, in the house to spar with Olivares. Fighters don't back down from other fighters, regardless of who they are. Had he kicked my ass, I'd have gotten myself together and returned with a baseball bat and hit the F_CK in the head, or shot him, whatever it took? (I'm not joking)


-Rick

Your right, fighters dont back down to other fighters.
You did the right thing.
Win , lose you have to take a stand.
Of course, that is a fighters mentality and a mentality that some men in society posses and of course some others f...in dont.

[Randyman]

Rick, I would have loved to have seen Walker - Hudkins as much as any fight in history I can think of.
And I do feel fortunate as I look back many years to have been around a few of boxings greats.
I only had a handful of pro fights, but being from a big city (Chicago), I have been in the gym or sparred with some big names I guess.

Ive mentioned the story about Duran a couple times, but what the heck I'll roll it again.
In 88 , he came to Chicago to fight a kid named Jeff Lanas.
He came to the gym I trained at called Fuller Park on the Southside and he was with former title holder Juan Nazario who was gonna fight on the same card.
He and Nazario one day were in the ring sparring , and Duran was just going through the motions , what it boils down to is Nazario was punching the shit out of him as Duran wasnt in too ggod shape.
Im right next to the ring hitting the speed bag , and as is often the case with the speedbag or the rope,
Sometimes you will just keep going after the bell ends the round.
Thats what I did and evidently Duran didnt like it as he walked over to the edge of the ring and started staring at me with his Charles Manson eyes. Clearly he was in a pissed off mood.
Well , hell this is the gym I worked out at so I wasnt gonna take crap from him or anyone so I stopped what I was doing and walked over and stared right back.
We glared at each other for what seemed like a good while, he may have mumbled something, I dont remember and I wouldnt have understood anyway.
The round started and he slowly went back to working with Nazario.
I laugh at stuff like that now.
It was almost a REAL brush with greatness.

Years ago, Benny Georgino paid me one of the greatest compliments I have ever received. He nicknamed me the "Toy BullDog", after Mickey Walker. At that time I had no sense of history and didn't know who Mickey Walker was. I had to ask Mel who Walker was. All these years later, I remember that with a sense of pride, especially knowing what I know about Walker now.

Randy

[Expug]

Rick, I would have loved to have seen Walker - Hudkins as much as any fight in history I can think of.
And I do feel fortunate as I look back many years to have been around a few of boxings greats.
I only had a handful of pro fights, but being from a big city (Chicago), I have been in the gym or sparred with some big names I guess.

Ive mentioned the story about Duran a couple times, but what the heck I'll roll it again.
In 88 , he came to Chicago to fight a kid named Jeff Lanas.
He came to the gym I trained at called Fuller Park on the Southside and he was with former title holder Juan Nazario who was gonna fight on the same card.
He and Nazario one day were in the ring sparring , and Duran was just going through the motions , what it boils down to is Nazario was punching the shit out of him as Duran wasnt in too ggod shape.
Im right next to the ring hitting the speed bag , and as is often the case with the speedbag or the rope,
Sometimes you will just keep going after the bell ends the round.
Thats what I did and evidently Duran didnt like it as he walked over to the edge of the ring and started staring at me with his Charles Manson eyes. Clearly he was in a pissed off mood.
Well , hell this is the gym I worked out at so I wasnt gonna take crap from him or anyone so I stopped what I was doing and walked over and stared right back.
We glared at each other for what seemed like a good while, he may have mumbled something, I dont remember and I wouldnt have understood anyway.
The round started and he slowly went back to working with Nazario.
I laugh at stuff like that now.
It was almost a REAL brush with greatness.

Years ago, Benny Georgino paid me one of the greatest compliments I have ever received. He nicknamed me the "Toy BullDog", after Mickey Walker. At that time I had no sense of history and didn't know who Mickey Walker was. I had to ask Mel who Walker was. All these years later, I remember that with a sense of pride, especially knowing what I know about Walker now.

Randy

Yes, that is a great compliment.
Georgino obviously thought highly of you.
And the fact that you feel so complimented means that you are a real boxing person.
It seems like nowadays if you told one of these posers that are out there that he was a young Mickey Walker, all you would get is a "huh" who dat?
Walker was my Grandfathers favorite fighter.
I heard so many great stories about him when I was a kid from him.

[Randyman]

That fight that Duran won against Barkley shocked me.
I was at the aformentioned fight that he had with Jeff Lanas right before Barkley and Roberto looked awful.
In fact I thought the dec. against Lanas could have gone either way.
Then Duran turns around and beats a tough Iran Barkley.

Pug, Duran, like Ali, had some magic in his career. At times he fought like a demon possessed and at other times he almost looked human. Again, as with Ali, there were those times in Duran's career when he could pull the rabbit out of the hat. Eventually, age and time topped the magic. But as the saying goes, "When Duran was Duran".....