BoxRec

The Corner Men . . . Besides the regularly mentioned managers and high profile trainers who had boxers in L.A., there were a number of corner men you'd see assisting mgrs and trainers, seconds who'd often work the corners, handling the water, towels and sometimes patching cuts. Guys such as Norm Lockwood, Jake Shagrue, Johnny Villaflor, the Soto brothers- Larry and Memo, Teo Serrano , Phil Silvers, etc. Remember these guys? Rick

kikibalt wrote:
John H. Stracey vs Carlos Palomino

This photo isn't staged. Real fighters, like John H., know how to dish it out AND how to accept defeat.
I have always believed that they rushed John H. into defences after the big Napoles win. Let the man savour his win, let the man recover - fighting and winning a world title in the altitude of Mexico City needs recovery time.
Stracey was back defending his title three months after Napoles.

Great shot.

Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . . Paulie Armstead passed away less than two years ago in Las Vegas and was cremated in Inglewood Cemetary. Out of respect for this former California champ would you please post his record. The names he fought are like a ''who's who'' of a special era. Rick

Here it is Rick

Paul Armstead

Birth Name Paul Lawrence Armstead
Country USA
Global Id 16026
Hometown Los Angeles, CA
Birthplace Lufkin, TX
Division Lightweight
Born 1937-03-03
Died 2006-11-25


Career Record © www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1970-12-30 Gil King Las Vegas, USA L PTS 10
1970-09-23 Peter Cobblah Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1970-08-12 Dave Oropeza Las Vegas, USA L UD 10
1968-11-30 Richard Kid Borias Soweto, South Africa L PTS 10
1968-11-02 Enoch Nhlapo Soweto, South Africa L PTS 10
1968-09-07 Herby Clarke Mbabane, Swaziland W TKO 2
1968-07-28 Angel Robinson Garcia San Remo, Italy D PTS 10
1968-06-21 Angel Robinson Garcia Milan, Italy L PTS 10
1968-05-22 Des Rea Aberavon, United Kingdom W PTS 10
1968-05-10 Angel Robinson Garcia Via Reggio, Italy W PTS 10
1968-04-30 Massimo Consolati Bologna, Italy W PTS 10
1967-10-28 Ismael Laguna Panama City, Panama L PTS 10
1967-05-29 Eddie Perkins Las Vegas, USA L UD 10
1966-12-05 Koji Okano Japan L PTS 10
1966-11-14 Kazuyoshi Kubokura Japan W UD 10
1966-11-07 Johnny Brooks Las Vegas, USA W PTS 10
1966-05-13 Pulga Serrano San Francisco, USA W UD 10
1966-02-12 Carlos Teo Cruz San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 10
1965-12-11 Enoch Nhlapo Soweto, South Africa W PTS 10
1965-11-20 Joas Kangaroo Maoto Soweto, South Africa D PTS 10
1965-06-26 Enoch Nhlapo Soweto, South Africa W PTS 10
1965-04-23 Olli Maeki Helsinki, Finland D PTS 10
1965-03-30 Johnny Cooke Manchester, United Kingdo L PTS 10
1965-03-15 Joe Tetteh Mayfair, United Kingdom W RTD 6
1964-10-29 Luis Molina Oakland, USA W PTS 10
1964-08-13 Luis Molina San Jose, USA W MD 10
1964-07-05 Percy Hayles Kingston, Jamaica L PTS 10
1964-05-25 Joe Brown San Francisco, USA W UD 10
1964-04-28 Joe Brown Sacramento, USA W SD 10
1964-03-16 Bobby Scanlon San Francisco, USA W UD 10
1963-08-19 Kenny Lane Saginaw, USA L UD 15
1963-06-11 Bobby Scanlon Sacramento, USA W PTS 10
1963-03-19 Jimmy Fields San Diego, USA W UD 12
1962-11-26 Carlos Hernandez Caracas, Venezuela W PTS 10
1962-10-29 Joe Reynolds San Jose, USA W PTS 10
1962-04-24 Benny Medina Fresno, USA W UD 10
1962-01-26 Emilio Flores Los Angeles, USA W UD 12
1961-11-17 Tony Perez San Diego, USA W PTS 10
1961-10-05 Alfredo Escobar Los Angeles, USA W UD 12
1961-06-06 Joey Lopes Sacramento, USA W PTS 10
1961-04-04 Francisco Santos Richmond, USA W TKO 7
1960-11-13 Mauro Vazquez Tijuana, Mexico W DQ 4
1960-08-06 Alfredo Urbina Mexico City, Mexico L PTS 10
1960-05-31 Dave Charnley Wembley, United Kingdom L KO 9
1960-04-25 Gene Gresham New Orleans, USA L PTS 10
1960-03-17 Hilario Morales Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1959-12-10 Baby Vasquez Los Angeles, USA W MD 10
1959-09-28 Len Matthews Philadelphia, USA L UD 10
1959-08-06 Battling Torres Los Angeles, USA L UD 10
1959-07-16 Mauro Vazquez Los Angeles, USA W MD 10
1959-06-06 Ray Riojas Hollywood, USA W SD 10
1959-04-08 Eddie Perkins Chicago, USA L SD 10
1959-01-16 Len Matthews Hollywood, USA W SD 10
1958-12-16 Johnny Gonsalves Oakland, USA L UD 10
1958-11-15 Johnny Gonsalves Hollywood, USA W UD 10
1958-10-18 Jimmy Hornsby Hollywood, USA W TKO 10
1958-07-18 Vicente Rivas Caracas, Venezuela D PTS 10
1958-05-15 Ezequiel Uribe Los Angeles, USA W MD 10
1958-04-17 Baby Vasquez Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1958-02-13 Mickey Northrup Los Angeles, USA W TKO 8
1958-01-23 Kid Anahuac Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1957-12-05 Jimmy Lassiter Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1957-08-03 Lauro Salas Hollywood, USA W UD 12
1957-07-06 Tommy Tibbs Hollywood, USA W UD 10
1957-05-18 Kid Centella Hollywood, USA W TKO 8
1957-03-23 Tommy Tibbs Hollywood, USA L SD 10
1957-02-14 Billy Evans Los Angeles, USA W UD 10
1956-10-20 Jimmy Moser Hollywood, USA W MD 10
1956-08-25 Gil Velarde Hollywood, USA W UD 10
1956-06-23 Billy Evans Hollywood, USA L TKO 4
1956-05-05 Vic Kid Ponce Hollywood, USA W TKO 9
1956-04-21 Pete Aguirre Hollywood, USA W TKO 3
1956-03-24 Manuel Baptista Hollywood, USA W KO 1
1956-02-11 Al Tovar Hollywood, USA W TKO 6
1955-12-03 Chico Arroyo Hollywood, USA W TKO 3
1955-10-15 Billy Smith Hollywood, USA W TKO 5
1955-08-06 Herman Duncan Hollywood, USA L SD 6
1955-07-16 Jesse Resendez Hollywood, USA W PTS 4
1955-05-28 Johnny O'Keefe Hollywood, USA W TKO 2
1955-04-30 Tommy English Hollywood, USA W KO 4
1955-04-09 Harvey Price Hollywood, USA W TKO 1

Record to Date
Won 55 (KOs 15) Lost 22 Drawn 4 Total 81

Rick Farris wrote:The Corner Men . . . Besides the regularly mentioned managers and high profile trainers who had boxers in L.A., there were a number of corner men you'd see assisting mgrs and trainers, seconds who'd often work the corners, handling the water, towels and sometimes patching cuts. Guys such as Norm Lockwood, Jake Shagrue, Johnny Villaflor, the Soto brothers- Larry and Memo, Teo Serrano , Phil Silvers, etc. Remember these guys? Rick

Rick

Another one that comes to mind is Freddie marino.
Btw, he spell his name "Marino" and not "Moreno".

kikibalt wrote:
John H. Stracey

Stracey, the king of the world. His success paved the way for a succession of great British welters: Colin Jones, Honeyghan, Laing (who beat Duran), et all.
Success breeds success.

dagosd2000 wrote:

bennie wrote:Am I right in thinking he went over a cliff, Dagos?

No Bennie. He was driving late at night and fell asleep at the wheel and hit a telephone pole. He was sober,just fell asleep. He had a stigma for a while where everyone was thinking he was on dope because of his slurred speech. Kenny always abstained from what I know.

Thanks, Dagos. Poor Ken must have smashed his head terribly. He rarely takes that hat off in public.

Rick Farris wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . . do you recall a oformer California lightweight champ, Paulie Armstead? I know he fought from the late 50's thru early 70's, and I used to see him traing at Jake Shagrue's Hoover St. Gym when I was a kid. He fought the best lightweights and jr. welters of his era, world wide, but rarely in L.A. which was his home town. I really thought he was a great fighter and regret not having a chance to see him fight in person.

Rick
Excuse me for stepping in front of Frank on this one,but I saw Paulie fight several times at the Coliseum in San Diego. It was the first time I saw the beauty in the Sweet Science. Jabbing,moving the head,countering. I remember watching Paulie and became completely absorbed with his variety of ¨his skills in the ring. Look up ¨Boxing¨in the Dictionary. It doesn´t always be Sugar Ray or The Wil´´O The Wisp to use an example. You might find a picture of Paulie Armstead besides the definition.

Thanks Roger. I used to think the same thing when I saw him work in the gym. Wish I had the chance to be at that fight with you in S.D. I love to see a REAL boxer in action. There is so much more to boxing than throwing and catching punches.

-Rick

We would have made a night of it. After the fights the Lucky Lady Club was just starting ti get going. It was only a block away from the Coliseum.

kikibalt wrote:
John H. Stracey

This guy beat my idol,Mantequilla,fair and square,but to see him with that smug look on his face,I wish I could have been in the ring with ¨Smooth As Butter¨ that night. That fight I still have nightmarews about.

BTW,could you see Napoles posing like that?

kikibalt wrote:
John H. Stracey vs Carlos Palomino

Better picture of Stracey. Carlos knocked the crown off his head. Picture taken just before Stracey picked it up and put it on Carlos´s head. No smug grins from Palomino. You can bet on that.

bennie wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:

bennie wrote:Am I right in thinking he went over a cliff, Dagos?

No Bennie. He was driving late at night and fell asleep at the wheel and hit a telephone pole. He was sober,just fell asleep. He had a stigma for a while where everyone was thinking he was on dope because of his slurred speech. Kenny always abstained from what I know.

Thanks, Dagos. Poor Ken must have smashed his head terribly. He rarely takes that hat off in public.

About five years ago in Can Cun,Jose Sulieman had a tribute for all the fighters he had promoted and other great Latino fighters of our era.He invited them on his ticket to a fight,and between rounds announced them up into the ring. It was kind of strange to see Norton towering over all the smaller weight fighters:Napoles,Duran,Chavez,Palomino,Olivares,etc.

All the fighters were conversing with each other with the exception of Ken. He was just like he was all alone staring up into the bleachers standing in the middle of the ring.

I watch some of the Olympics down here in Mexico. Coverage is very thorough. All day long . All the events. Like it used to be in the U.S.

The Mexican team is not doing very well. The Mexican announcer said the last time a Mexican athelete won a Gold Medal was 1974. Mexico ,so far ,has a Bronze.

I look at the hopeless expressions on some of their faces.Frustration has given way to¨ Ï just want to go home. Maybe they think they didn´t train enough. Or weren´t trained correctly. But I know this . They want to go home to Mexico.

These Mexican atheletes are what you might call from the ¨privileged side:. Their families had money to send them to good schools and pay for trainers. Now they think of Mexico.

I see this thinking once in a while. A ¨privileged one¨who´s experiencing a rough time. They want to go home. That´s were their solitude is. The solitude of the ranch. The rancho.

Now the ´privileged ¨never lived on a rancho. Maybe a grand parent. Or great grandparent. Maybe they have only an image of the rancho.

But you see the rancho is Mexico. A great symbol.The people of the rancho is were the real Mexicans live. The country,horses,the songs,fiestas,hard work. The simple beautifull life of the ¨Ranchero.¨
The city ones remember their abuelita making corn tortillas by hand and eating carnitas from a pig that was butchered in the morning. Maybe going out to the field on a cold morning and squeezing a cow´s tit, squirting the warm leche into a glass right there,and pouring a liitle home brew into it.. Then the crystals of chocolate on top to sweeten it. No one else does that. That´s Mexican. Mexican as you can get.

Frank,I remember the thread on defining the definition of a Mexican. It went back and forth. I know this my pal. When I go up to my Cunadas ranch in Jalisco,on top of the mountain. Where you have to pull the car over bacause you can´t continue because the road is so bad. You walk. Or ride a horse . Where the work is hard and every day.. Animals never take a day off. Neither the Ranchero. It´s not a life where you sit on the porch at night and look at the stars.

I like my sister in law´s ranch. So do the kids.She has a little picture of Pedro Infante on a wall of the porch. The Immortal Pedro.. At night,sitting on the wooden porch. Looking at all the stars in the sky ,I can hear his voice coming down from up there . I know who I am.

GOLDEN BOY: RIPE FOR CRITICISM OR JUST THE WHIPPING BOY?

By Michael Swann
spam.com

It seems to me that if you regularly read the boxing columns from a number if sites, you might begin to feel after awhile that there is an overall media bias against Golden Boy Promotions (GBP). It wasn’t always this way but it seems to have developed over time. And, if it’s not a story in print, there are the subtle whispers and snickers from behind the scenes that evidence my point.

My experience has been that Bob Arum, CEO of Top Rank, is spoken of in far more respectful terms that either GBP CEO Richard Schaeffer or president and resident cash cow Oscar De La Hoya, who has always been a media darling, yet somehow seems to have suffered somewhat of a fall from grace, justified or not.

Golden Boy is regularly criticized for their cozy relationship with HBO, their ongoing failure to develop champions in-house, and their methods of procuring free agents. They’ve been called the George Steinbrenner of boxing, the Wal-Mart of boxing as well as some other odious terms.

Now they’re being castigated for their desire to put big, old Oscar in the ring with little Manny Pacquiao in Oscar’s farewell fight, instead of a serious challenge, such as Antonio Margarito. Manny will have huge deficits in weight, height, reach, and undoubtedly, strength, but he is the sport’s pound for pound best and is a genuine international superstar. Obviously, this is about financial rewards rather than competition.

I’ve gone on record in previous columns about my thoughts on these and other matters involving Golden Boy, so in the interests of fair play and
an open dialogue, we sought out some opinions from the Golden Boy perspective.

Hall of Fame promoter Don Chargin is a consultant for Golden Boy and a man who, in his prime at 80, is as knowledgeable as anyone in the game. While he’s a loyal Golden Boy associate, Chargin is nobody’s yes man.

“There are times that I disagree with some of the things that Golden Boy does,” said Chargin. “And, I tell them what I think.”

On the alleged HBO-GBP marriage of convenience, Chargin said, “For years and years Arum was the only one who could get a date on ESPN. When people complained he said, ‘It’s because I’m the best.’ But when someone else gets the dates, they start complaining.

“These things I read about HBO giving Golden Boy too many dates are ridiculous. These guys at HBO aren’t going to jeopardize their jobs and you can imagine how many times Arum and [Don] King go to the higher ups at HBO and complain that they’re playing favorites.”

Reportedly HBO is close to making a deal with GBP to promote a set number of fights a year through the next five years. This carries a measure of risk as the promotional company has yet to develop a star and some current fan favorites are fading from the scene.

For years, Golden Boy has ridden on the shoulders of Oscar, Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley, and Marco Antonio Barrera. Barrera recently defected, a move I sense was welcomed by the GBP team.

In his last fight, a loss to Manny Pacquiao, his team and family disrupted the post fight press conference by accusing everyone and anyone of fixing the fight. He didn’t pay his trainer, or anyone for that matter, and rid himself of everyone connected to him. And it wasn’t the first time.

That’s a lot of aggravation from a guy who, despite his Hall of Fame career, is now well past his prime. Barrera’s value as a Golden Boy partner without a viable fight career was virtually zero.

On the Golden Boy website, its mission statement says in part, “We want to offer promising young fighters a platform from which they can showcase their talents to a global audience and want to offer our viewers and fans high quality programming.

“Golden Boy is committed to recruiting, developing, and retaining the best and brightest young fighters to help achieve our mission.”

Yet, if you look at the GBP fall schedule the names De La Hoya, Hopkins, Mosley, Juan Manuel Marquez, Joel Casamayor and Jeff Lacy are prominent on the list.

Chargin says, “They will sign free agents but they turn down a million free agents as well.

“Pavlik had no one to fight and he sought out Hopkins. Mosley is a great kid, a great champion who can still fight. You can’t just throw him off to the side and say you’ve outlived your usefulness.”

The question is however, does Golden Boy scout and recruit prospects and can they break the barrier and develop new talent?

As for right now, according to Chargin, “Shelly is the one who usually gets the fighters.”

Shelly Finkel is not only one of the premier fight managers in the game but he has long been acknowledged as having a keen eye for talent, arguably one of the best in the game. Finkel supplied the prime talent that marked the glory years of Main Events, and then did the same thing for Gary Shaw to help get his promotional company off the ground. Now Finkel is bringing his talents to Golden Boy in much the same way.

On the subject of the historic difficulty of Golden Boy in developing new prospects, Finkel said, “I think that’s going to change with me bringing a couple of kids to them. They have good matchmakers now. They were young, only been around for a couple of years and learning the ropes.”

Finkel enthusiastically singled out blue chip names such as the Velasquez bothers, Carlos and Juan, Danny Garcia, Julio Garcia, Hylon Williams and Marco Periban as examples of upcoming prospects who are now in the Golden Boy stable.

How soon, if ever, it will take for these prospects to become relevant players might be argued, but Finkel is convinced that the future looks bright from a recruiting standpoint.

Meanwhile, at least for the present, they have the advantage that fighters want to come to them. Golden Boy doesn’t have to put on a sales job to lure in fighters. Kids see that GB logo on HBO and dream of being there someday.

“I talk to Oscar quite a bit and we have many good conversations about fighting, styles, and fighters,” Chargin said. “No one realizes what a down to earth kid he is.

“I know Oscar and Richard as well as anyone and it really upsets me because I see them when there’s no newspaper guys around and I can see what their ultimate goals are.”

As far as the De La Hoya-Pacquiao fight goes, the Hall of Famer said, “Oscar sells tickets, and you watch, Oscar-Pacquiao will go through the roof. You’re going to have the ultra fanatical Oscar fans and the really fanatical Pacquiao fans.”

But what about Antonio Margarito and Oscar’s legacy?

Chargin brought up a salient point. Bob Arum hasn’t mentioned Margarito since he began negotiating the Pacquiao fight.

“Oscar’s in a position where he can’t do right,” Chargin said. “ He said before the fight that he would fight Cotto but not Margarito. The legacy that he worries about is that he wants the Mexican fans in his corner.”

Michael Swann can be reached at [email protected].

Hoya-Manny Pacquiao bout break down

By Dan Arritt, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

Negotiations about a possible fight between Oscar De La Hoya and Manny Pacquiao stalled Wednesday after the fighters failed to reach an agreement on the split of the purse, said Bob Arum, who represents Pacquiao.

De La Hoya offered Pacquiao a 30% share of the purse from the proposed Dec. 6 fight at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, but Pacquiao was seeking 40%, Arum said.

"They were adamant at 70-30 and weren't going to move," Arum said. "Manny turned down the fight and asked me to get him another fight for the fall."

Richard Schaefer, chief executive of De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, said Tuesday that De La Hoya had agreed to fight Pacquiao at the welterweight limit of 147 pounds and with eight-ounce gloves, terms that Pacquiao had sought, but that De La Hoya would not alter his split of the purse.

Arum relayed the terms to Pacquiao, who turned down the offer.

"The decision was all Pacquiao," Arum said. "He feels, under the circumstances, he's entitled to a better split. When he realized there was absolutely no movement on De La Hoya's side, he decided to turn down the fight."

Schaefer said he was surprised with the decision because Pacquiao was set to earn the biggest payday of his career, regardless of the split.

"He could have made, at least, $9 million to $10 million, or about three or four times as much fighting someone else. I guess he's going to have to do three or four fights to make the same amount of money," Schaefer said.

De La Hoya, 35, is boxing's biggest draw and had said he would retire after his next fight.

Pacquiao had moved up to the 135-pound lightweight division in June, taking the World Boxing Council title from David Diaz with a ninth-round knockout. After the victory, many expected Pacquiao's next challenger to be popular Englishman Ricky Hatton in the 140-pound division, or Edwin Valero or Humberto Soto at 130 pounds.

De La Hoya weighed 150 in his last fight, against Steve Forbes, the lightest he has been since March 2001. Pacquiao, 29, began his pro career as a 106-pound strawweight. He has been fighting at 130 since 2005. In his last fight, he moved up to the 135-pound lightweight division for the first time.

[email protected]

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:The Corner Men . . . Besides the regularly mentioned managers and high profile trainers who had boxers in L.A., there were a number of corner men you'd see assisting mgrs and trainers, seconds who'd often work the corners, handling the water, towels and sometimes patching cuts. Guys such as Norm Lockwood, Jake Shagrue, Johnny Villaflor, the Soto brothers- Larry and Memo, Teo Serrano , Phil Silvers, etc. Remember these guys? Rick

Rick

Another one that comes to mind is Freddie marino.
Btw, he spell his name "Marino" and not "Moreno".

I remember Freddie Marino, Frank. Freddie was in the corner of Bennie Rodriguez the night I fought him at the Olympic in 1970. Shortly afterwards, Jackie McCoy took over Rodriguez career and he soon went to the top of the bantam division. I liked Frddie Marino, and last saw him more than twenty years ago at the Olympic Gym, while I was there on a film production.

-Rick

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:The Corner Men . . . Besides the regularly mentioned managers and high profile trainers who had boxers in L.A., there were a number of corner men you'd see assisting mgrs and trainers, seconds who'd often work the corners, handling the water, towels and sometimes patching cuts. Guys such as Norm Lockwood, Jake Shagrue, Johnny Villaflor, the Soto brothers- Larry and Memo, Teo Serrano , Phil Silvers, etc. Remember these guys? Rick

Rick

Another one that comes to mind is Freddie marino.
Btw, he spell his name "Marino" and not "Moreno".

I remember Freddie Marino, Frank. Freddie was in the corner of Bennie Rodriguez the night I fought him at the Olympic in 1970. Shortly afterwards, Jackie McCoy took over Rodriguez career and he soon went to the top of the bantam division. I liked Frddie Marino, and last saw him more than twenty years ago at the Olympic Gym, while I was there on a film production.

-Rick

Freddie died some years ago.

Thad Spencer

Thad Spencer with referee John Thomas

Sounds like a good time, Rog. Not that I needed any help when it came to getting in trouble, however, a partner in crime always adds to the fun. Last time I was at the Coliseum I was stuck with my trainer, Mel Epstein, and I aasure you Mel was no fun. If you were there, we could have ditched Epstein and be off to the races, or the Lucky Lady anyway. We think alike pal. Rick

Stracey was never smug Dagos, he was an honest and always respectful pro, that made the most of the very limited talent he had.

It would be harsh to hold some stupid photoshoot that was most likely not his idea against him.

Arbachakov wrote:Stracey was never smug Dagos, he was an honest and always respectful pro, that made the most of the very limited talent he had.

It would be harsh to hold some stupid photoshoot that was most likely not his idea against him.

I agree that it was not likely his idea, most likely some pr guy.

It's a stupid shot, really. Stracey is doing typical English hero - self-effacing - and comes across as smug. Still, that pose is a helluva lot better than Honeyghan posing naked with just the WBC belt round his waist after winning the title. Honeyghan had about five kids from five different women, and the same with his mate Hughroy Currie. I was once playing football in a Catford park with a bunch of youngsters and one of them was Currie's son.
He had never even met his dad.

kikibalt wrote:Hoya-Manny Pacquiao bout break down

By Dan Arritt, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

Negotiations about a possible fight between Oscar De La Hoya and Manny Pacquiao stalled Wednesday after the fighters failed to reach an agreement on the split of the purse, said Bob Arum, who represents Pacquiao.

De La Hoya offered Pacquiao a 30% share of the purse from the proposed Dec. 6 fight at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, but Pacquiao was seeking 40%, Arum said.

"They were adamant at 70-30 and weren't going to move," Arum said. "Manny turned down the fight and asked me to get him another fight for the fall."

Richard Schaefer, chief executive of De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, said Tuesday that De La Hoya had agreed to fight Pacquiao at the welterweight limit of 147 pounds and with eight-ounce gloves, terms that Pacquiao had sought, but that De La Hoya would not alter his split of the purse.

Arum relayed the terms to Pacquiao, who turned down the offer.

"The decision was all Pacquiao," Arum said. "He feels, under the circumstances, he's entitled to a better split. When he realized there was absolutely no movement on De La Hoya's side, he decided to turn down the fight."

Schaefer said he was surprised with the decision because Pacquiao was set to earn the biggest payday of his career, regardless of the split.

"He could have made, at least, $9 million to $10 million, or about three or four times as much fighting someone else. I guess he's going to have to do three or four fights to make the same amount of money," Schaefer said.

De La Hoya, 35, is boxing's biggest draw and had said he would retire after his next fight.

Pacquiao had moved up to the 135-pound lightweight division in June, taking the World Boxing Council title from David Diaz with a ninth-round knockout. After the victory, many expected Pacquiao's next challenger to be popular Englishman Ricky Hatton in the 140-pound division, or Edwin Valero or Humberto Soto at 130 pounds.

De La Hoya weighed 150 in his last fight, against Steve Forbes, the lightest he has been since March 2001. Pacquiao, 29, began his pro career as a 106-pound strawweight. He has been fighting at 130 since 2005. In his last fight, he moved up to the 135-pound lightweight division for the first time.

[email protected]

Good. This fight is a sick joke.

kikibalt wrote:

Thad Spencer

How good was Thad Spencer?
He and Leotis Martin took part in a fight in London that is generally regarded as the greatest heavyweight fight this country has ever seen. Sadly, it was non-televised and Thad, before my time.