BoxRec

Dioufy wrote:I think Haye's win over Mormeck was exactly the same as Froch's win over Taylor - Froch was slight favourite Vs Taylor, whereas Haye was 11/10 against Mormeck.

They are both very good wins, but Froch has his win much more recently and I think that should be taken into account when deciding their rankings. Froch is only one place ahead of Haye in my world rankings, so it is very close between them in my estimations.

Dioufy wrote:Plus Haye has done more either side of his best win against Mormeck. I think he should be 3rd.

Before Haye's win over Mormeck his recent wins were over Bonin, Fragomeni, Abdoul, Johansen and Gurov. Froch's were over Reid, Tatevosyan, Dodson, Magee and Westerman. Haye probably wins this contest.

Since Haye beat Mormeck he has beaten Maccarinelli and Barrett. Do you really think those wins are better than Froch's wins in that time which were over Rybacki, Pascal and Taylor? I do not.

Dioufy wrote:But I respect your list.

Thank you.

Horse wrote:Since Haye beat Mormeck he has beaten Maccarinelli and Barrett. Do you really think those wins are better than Froch's wins in that time which were over Rybacki, Pascal and Taylor? I do not.

I think Haye wins this again. Froch was a decent favourite against Pascal (someone who was relatively untested), and Rybacki was bobbins (he was tough but had absolutely zero skills.) Haye's unifaction win over Maccarinelli (a fight that was worth three belts) was seen as 50/50 before the fight had started. And Haye's win over Barrett was brave as well - he took on someone who was naturally bigger than him and who had only really lost to the best - Cliff Couser aside. Plus, both of Haye's wins have come at different divisions, whereas Froch's two fights have come at his natural weight, one of them came against a guy who had only just started competing at 168lbs (I am taking nothing away from the Taylor win - it was an amazing comeback, but Froch was well behind when it happened).

Haye has also viciously blasted two very highly ranked fighters out. And thus deserves that 3rd place - it's the manner of the wins too. But like I have said, it's a good list, but I don't agree with that selection. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, mate.

Flav1 wrote:Not so much your rankings mate, more the reaction to them and the abuse you get. Why do you do it?

Because this forum deserves a British Top 30 P4P list.

A bit of criticism is healthy and aids understanding of the P4P worth of Britain and Ireland's best fighters.

Not everyone will agree with the rankings, but that could never realistically be the case.

Dioufy wrote:

Horse wrote:Since Haye beat Mormeck he has beaten Maccarinelli and Barrett. Do you really think those wins are better than Froch's wins in that time which were over Rybacki, Pascal and Taylor? I do not.

I think Haye wins this again. Froch was a decent favourite against Pascal (someone who was relatively untested), and Rybacki was bobbins (he was tough but had absolutely zero skills.) Haye's unifaction win over Maccarinelli (a fight that was worth three belts) was seen as 50/50 before the fight had started.

No way was Haye vs Maccarinelli 50/50. Haye was surely the favourite.

Dioufy wrote:And Haye's win over Barrett was brave as well - he took on someone who was naturally bigger than him and who had only really lost to the best - Cliff Couser aside.

Haye's win over Barrett was not brave. Haye had to fight someone half decent and Barrett was just about acceptable considering Haye's difficulty finding an opponent.

Dioufy wrote:Plus, both of Haye's wins have come at different divisions, whereas Froch's two fights have come at his natural weight, one of them came against a guy who had only just started competing at 168lbs (I am taking nothing away from the Taylor win - it was an amazing comeback, but Froch was well behind when it happened).

I don't really care much for division jumping unless a fighter picks up credible wins and the Barrett win was only decent.

Dioufy wrote:Haye has also viciously blasted two very highly ranked fighters out. And thus deserves that 3rd place - it's the manner of the wins too.

In no way is beating Maccarinelli and Barrett better than beating Pascal and Taylor. I would give both Pascal and Taylor a very good shot at beating Maccarinelli and I am not talking about a P4P fight either. Barrett was a top 30 heavyweight at best, a low quality opponent for a top 20/30 P4P fighter.

Dioufy wrote:But like I have said, it's a good list, but I don't agree with that selection. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, mate.

I don't really disagree with you having Haye above Froch, as Haye is a fine fighter and I consider them to be at a very similar level at the moment.

Although, I do strongly disagree with you about Maccarinelli and Barrett being better wins than Pascal and Taylor.

Yes, perhaps the Pascal and Taylor wins are better than Maccarinelli and Barrett, although I still think Haye's win over Mormeck was better than Froch's win over Taylor. But the Pascal win eclipses the Barrett win by a fair distance, even if Pascal is/was untested at the top level. It will be interesting to see how good Pascal really is when he fights for the light heavyweight WBC belt.

Just for comparison, this is Boxrec's British P4P (UK AND ACTIVE only)

1 Carl Froch 1129 25 (20) - 0 (0) - 0

2 Ricky Hatton 959 45 (32) - 2 (2) - 0

3 David Haye 789 22 (21) - 1 (1) - 0

4 Clinton Woods 701 42 (24) - 4 (1) - 1

5 Junior Witter 646 37 (22) - 2 (0) - 2

6 Ola Afolabi 636 14 (6) - 1 (0) - 3

7 Jamie Moore 566 32 (23) - 3 (2) - 0

8 Kevin Mitchell 555 27 (20) - 0 (0) - 0

9 Matthew Macklin 544 24 (17) - 2 (1) - 0

10 Paul McCloskey 485 19 (9) - 0 (0) - 0

11 Rendall Munroe 480 19 (8) - 1 (0) - 0

12 Amir Khan 462 20 (15) - 1 (1) - 0

13 Martin Lindsay 447 14 (6) - 0 (0) - 0

14 Kell Brook 432 19 (12) - 0 (0) - 0

15 David Barnes 412 24 (11) - 1 (1) - 1

16 Darren Barker 410 19 (12) - 0 (0) - 0

17 Dean Francis 395 30 (24) - 3 (2) - 1

18 Jason Booth 394 32 (13) - 5 (0) - 0

19 Nicky Cook 389 29 (16) - 2 (2) - 0

20 Matthew Hall 386 22 (15) - 1 (1) - 0

21 Alex Arthur 375 26 (19) - 2 (1) - 0

22 Ryan Rhodes 374 42 (28) - 4 (2) - 0

23 Lenny Daws 372 19 (7) - 1 (0) - 1

24 Matthew Hatton 370 37 (14) - 4 (1) - 1

25 Nathan Cleverly 364 15 (5) - 0 (0) - 0

26 Martin Rogan 359 12 (6) - 0 (0) - 0

27 Craig McEwan 351 15 (9) - 0 (0) - 0

28 Enzo Maccarinelli 345 29 (22) - 3 (3) - 0

29 John Murray 344 26 (14) - 0 (0) - 0

30 Robert Norton 342 31 (19) - 4 (1) - 1

31 Brian Magee 337 32 (22) - 3 (1) - 1

32 Jonathan Thaxton 327 34 (19) - 9 (5) - 0

33 Scott Lawton 317 26 (5) - 4 (2) - 1

34 Wayne Elcock 307 19 (9) - 4 (3) - 0

35 Anthony Small 301 21 (15) - 1 (1) - 0

36 Henry Castle 298 20 (11) - 4 (3) - 0

37 Ricky Burns 296 26 (7) - 2 (0) - 0

38 Kevin McIntyre 290 27 (9) - 6 (5) - 0

39 Danny Williams 286 41 (31) - 7 (4) - 0

40 Howard Eastman 283 45 (35) - 6 (1) - 0

41 Darren McDermott 283 16 (9) - 1 (1) - 1

42 Herbie Hide 283 47 (42) - 4 (4) - 0

43 John Simpson 278 19 (7) - 6 (0) - 0

44 Michael Jennings 277 34 (16) - 2 (1) - 0

45 Paul Smith 277 26 (15) - 1 (0) - 0

46 Danny McIntosh 274 10 (4) - 0 (0) - 0

47 Matt Skelton 272 22 (19) - 3 (1) - 0

48 Martin Murray 269 14 (5) - 0 (0) - 0

49 Michael Lomax 267 15 (2) - 1 (0) - 1

50 Michael Hunter 263 29 (13) - 1 (1) - 1

Superheavyweight wrote:Great Britain & United Kingdom are 2 different things though.



Great Britain = The Island we live on

United Kingdom = The Ireland you stole

Dont need to tell me that mate. Tiocfaidh Ar La. Regardless, the Boxrec Database is organised as UK.

Super Heavy... no Napa?