BoxRec

Riddick Blowe wrote:God, this would be ugly for Froch.

Carl needs to come up with a convincing excuse not to do this, and fast. A good one would be that he's aiming to unify the supermiddles before fighting someone like hopkins.

You mean and wait until Hopkins is 46

yiddo14 wrote:

tonyevs wrote:The funny thing about this thread is that alot of the people who have praised Froch as the greatest s-middle - and ridicule Calzaghe for fighting Hopkins, now recognise that Hopkins easilly beats Froch

I know styles make fights etc .. but Calzaghe ability wise knew as much as Bernard and possesed the better engine .. maybe Hopkins knew one or two old pro tricks and had a bigger one punch dig .. but Calzaghes bigger and better engine just makes a win over froch even more obvious.

Froch reminds me of a Dennis Andries type world champion .. strong and determined, but lacking in all the finer points .. he`ll make exciting viewing for as long as he holds the title, which is no critism as a viewer.

Who here is praising Froch as the "Greatest Super Middle" exactly???

Come on, lets not try and spin things. As I said earlier, the reason why froch is well liked is because even though 99% of Boxing Fans would back Hopkins against him, Froch would still want the fight and give 100%. Thats the difference between him and Joe.
Joe only wnet after Hopkins once he had a huge win ratio in his favour and Hopkins had slost a bit. Froch will fight anybody, no matter how good they are. And all while he is a newly crowned Champ.
Who did Calzaghe fight in his first defence? Who was Calzaghe looking at in his 2nd defence? Was it Taylor and Hopkins....? Ah, didn't think so

Agreed mate.

Calzaghe's "career defining" wins or whatever you call them are on the same level a Frochs first title defenses lol

If Froch fights like he did against Pascal & Taylor, it would be an easy night for Hopkins.

Froch has little to gain and lots to lose by fighting a stylistic nightmare such as Hopkins. It's not a fight that he needs to take as Hopkins isn't in his weight class, and it won't even make for an exciting spectacle. Hopkins is the Ric Flair of boxing and will use his veteran skills to outpoint Froch pretty handily. Carl should focus on fighting the top dogs at super middle. For me, any one out of Kessler, Bute, Andrade or Miranda would be a perfectly acceptable next step for him. Obviously we want to see the unification fights asap, but the latter two guys would be very credible "stop gap" opponents in what would be excellent fights.

Autobarn wrote:

well duh, 'barn, Eubank hadn't retired when Benn was at his peak
Benn hadn't retired when Eubank was at his peak
when benn was world champion Eubank wasn't 3 levels below him and making his way through british/euro levels
when Eubank was world champion benn wasn't 3 levels below him and making his way through british/euro levels

benn vs eubank was an eminently makeable fight

froch Calzaghe isn't, never has been.

you know what i mean cunter pouncher

i'm referring to the way these 2 are dividing fans

obviously eubank and benn were peers, whereas these 2 arrived at different times. but the proximity of joe leaving and carl arriving, does make it tantalising

one good thing about the death of big all british fights is that they are getting respect on the international scene

no real need for that.

maybe i misread a previous post of yours but i could have sworn you have made the argument that Calzaghe should have or should fight Froch. if i'm wrong on that i'm wrong, faird do's. but your incessant comparisons between Calzaghe and Froch, or more accurately your use of Froch to negatively judge Calzaghe, gives the impression you think that fight either should or should have happened.


the difference is that Froch and Calzaghe are dividing boxing fans
Benn and Eubank divided the country.

so i still think your comparison if off-beam. Froch would need another year in the public eye and probably a personality bypass operation to make him as big nationally as Eubank/Benn.

and since Calzaghe has retired there's no substantial, viable rivalry between Calzaghe and Froch. other than in the minds of about 10,000 people in Nottingham and a few boxing anoraks like us

tantalising it may be, pipe dreams often are.

yours in boxing, etc

oh and from ringside at Froch-Pascal i cam away with the strong impression Cazaghe would school Froch anyway


agree with Tonyevs, good point: Froch reminds me of a Dennis Andries type world champion .. strong and determined, but lacking in all the finer points .. he`ll make exciting viewing for as long as he holds the title, which is no critism as a viewer.

anyway, we've all had our bit of fun.

i bring up calzaghe when froch fights, mainly because of the hair pulling frustration of following Joe's career, and the satisfaction of seeing guys like Froch and Haye just getting on with it and scoring spectacular KOs. With Froch being same weight, and with the excitement from last week, etc etc. Also, I do think Joe is a bit graceless with his comments and I don't see how a guy who has scraped the bottom of the barrel numerous times can be critical, etc

i would love to see Froch get a shot, because his utter recklessness and power could see him hurt Joe and - something that no one else has really tried - move in for the kill, with both hands. Those 30 second sprints can come in handy. I have been itching to see this; I don't think it's likely to happen though. Watching a fighter like Joe, you get loads of unanswered questions, even from 24 world title fights. The last fights seemed to show flaws that the others papered over. Collins shouldn't have been able to beat Eubank, but his hunger and his own "caveman" style saw him barge his way to victory.

I've lost all patience as a boxing fan. I got fed up of thinking "hey this is how the business is" and i've narrowed down what I can watch to the value-for-money guys. i don't doubt that froch will win some and lose some absolutely riveting fights. obviously, that absolute nutter style + ambitious matchmaking could spell trouble, but it's going to be worth watching. bring on bute, ward, green, kessler - can't wait!

I've seen aggressive champs refine their styles and hope Froch can. He seems to throw his right hand like a Karate punch, as the whole right side of his body comes forward, then if his right foot comes forward he throws the right again (there was a character on TEKKEN who did that!). Things like that don't really work in boxing. No doubt there will be hard gym work before the next title defence.

Autobarn wrote:

I've seen aggressive champs refine their styles and hope Froch can. He seems to throw his right hand like a Karate punch, as the whole right side of his body comes forward, then if his right foot comes forward he throws the right again (there was a character on TEKKEN who did that!). Things like that don't really work in boxing. No doubt there will be hard gym work before the next title defence.

yeah there's something about Froch that he makes the mistakes part of his style. can't hit the guy cleanly, just let him tire himself out smashing shots against your jaw and hit him round the shoulders till he's ready to collapse. there's no way in hell he will end up refining his style IMO. it's too late, and in the crucible of a world level fight, old habits will just come out....

The only person under 175lbs I see beating Hopkins is Dawson. I feel if Froch fought Hopkins, we would see Pavlik Vs Hopkins part II.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

I've seen aggressive champs refine their styles and hope Froch can. He seems to throw his right hand like a Karate punch, as the whole right side of his body comes forward, then if his right foot comes forward he throws the right again (there was a character on TEKKEN who did that!). Things like that don't really work in boxing. No doubt there will be hard gym work before the next title defence.

yeah there's something about Froch that he makes the mistakes part of his style. can't hit the guy cleanly, just let him tire himself out smashing shots against your jaw and hit him round the shoulders till he's ready to collapse. there's no way in hell he will end up refining his style IMO. it's too late, and in the crucible of a world level fight, old habits will just come out....

well, it worked for saad muhammad

that was only one fight, give him a chance. froch has to stop acting like he is a sharp shooting power puncher and become a fighter who will break opponents down bit by bit. he has to break his challangers down at this level. hopefully taylor fight is a wakeup call

he did look limited for much of the fight, then he looked brilliant when he simply unloaded. i don't think he believed in his power earlier on, but surely will do in future fights.

so IMO won the title, kept the title, and surely now has to go about business in a different way. i would suggest hard jabs, double jabs which help prevent getting hit with counter rights. hard body shots, to set up uppercuts inside. no uppercuts from outside. no punches derived from arcade game beat 'em ups. wear the opponent down, try and chop them down like a tree. get hands back to guard after punching. throw left hooks after right hands, because if you miss the first, the latter may land and set something up. use strength sensibly, push opponent back, drive them back with the jabs. i think froch woul dhave a great jab if he fine tuned it. basic stuff, and he's more than capable of applying himself to sensible fighting...if not, he will either get KO'd or he'll make his team have heart attacks en route to more dramatic wins.

Autobarn wrote: well, it worked for saad muhammad

that was only one fight, give him a chance. froch has to stop acting like he is a sharp shooting power puncher and become a fighter who will break opponents down bit by bit. he has to break his challangers down at this level. hopefully taylor fight is a wakeup call

he did look limited for much of the fight, then he looked brilliant when he simply unloaded. i don't think he believed in his power earlier on, but surely will do in future fights.

so IMO won the title, kept the title, and surely now has to go about business in a different way. i would suggest hard jabs, double jabs which help prevent getting hit with counter rights. hard body shots, to set up uppercuts inside. no uppercuts from outside. no punches derived from arcade game beat 'em ups. wear the opponent down, try and chop them down like a tree. get hands back to guard after punching. throw left hooks after right hands, because if you miss the first, the latter may land and set something up. use strength sensibly, push opponent back, drive them back with the jabs. i think froch woul dhave a great jab if he fine tuned it. basic stuff, and he's more than capable of applying himself to sensible fighting...if not, he will either get KO'd or he'll make his team have heart attacks en route to more dramatic wins.

heh, all sounds good and fundamental mate. exactly why i don't expect it to happen anytime soon

by the way to me it looked exactly the same as the pascal performance, except Taylor had more to offer offensivelyand skillswise so Froch had to take more whilst landing less.

one thing i will say about what i sawasFroch's ineffective aggression- he was landing around Taylor's arms and shoulders a lot when Taylor was crouching in a guard underneath the froch right hadn. this doubtless was a large factor in taylor's tiring late on....

can you imagine Froch stops Calzaghe

his career would have been greater than Calzaghe's reign after only 3 world title fights

Can you imagine if Froch built a time machine, and knocked out Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Moore on the same night? He'd be the bestest ever, after just one night!

states wrote:Can you imagine if Froch built a time machine, and knocked out Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Moore on the same night? He'd be the bestest ever, after just one night!

Jamie Moore?

Come on lads, do it for Britain!

Counter-puncher wrote:

Autobarn wrote: well, it worked for saad muhammad

that was only one fight, give him a chance. froch has to stop acting like he is a sharp shooting power puncher and become a fighter who will break opponents down bit by bit. he has to break his challangers down at this level. hopefully taylor fight is a wakeup call

he did look limited for much of the fight, then he looked brilliant when he simply unloaded. i don't think he believed in his power earlier on, but surely will do in future fights.

so IMO won the title, kept the title, and surely now has to go about business in a different way. i would suggest hard jabs, double jabs which help prevent getting hit with counter rights. hard body shots, to set up uppercuts inside. no uppercuts from outside. no punches derived from arcade game beat 'em ups. wear the opponent down, try and chop them down like a tree. get hands back to guard after punching. throw left hooks after right hands, because if you miss the first, the latter may land and set something up. use strength sensibly, push opponent back, drive them back with the jabs. i think froch woul dhave a great jab if he fine tuned it. basic stuff, and he's more than capable of applying himself to sensible fighting...if not, he will either get KO'd or he'll make his team have heart attacks en route to more dramatic wins.

heh, all sounds good and fundamental mate. exactly why i don't expect it to happen anytime soon

by the way to me it looked exactly the same as the pascal performance, except Taylor had more to offer offensivelyand skillswise so Froch had to take more whilst landing less.

one thing i will say about what i sawasFroch's ineffective aggression- he was landing around Taylor's arms and shoulders a lot when Taylor was crouching in a guard underneath the froch right hadn. this doubtless was a large factor in taylor's tiring late on....

yes taylor knocked himself out, just as pascal wore himself down

Cannibal wrote:"I'll never lose to 2 white British men!"

I would LOVE to see Froch against Hopkins next With Calzaghe refusing to take the bait, it's the biggest fight out there for Froch. Kessler is well respected among real boxing fans but Hopkins is in a different league in terms of general recognition. I also think it would be the biggest challenge for Froch and a fascinating fight.

nobby_nobbins wrote:I would LOVE to see Froch against Hopkins next With Calzaghe refusing to take the bait, it's the biggest fight out there for Froch. Kessler is well respected among real boxing fans but Hopkins is in a different league in terms of general recognition. I also think it would be the biggest challenge for Froch and a fascinating fight.

that's probably not a bad call , I mean why the hell not??

He may as well try to cash in on Hopkins' massive name in America. It's better than fighting Taylor again and running a real risk of getting stopped.
Hopkins is coming off a super win over Pavlik, he isn't a concussive puncher at World Level, he's 44 (although I don' necessarily think that's an issue, but in reality it's probably better than getting him at 33 isn't it? And on top of that Hopkins said he wants it....It's a logical fight to make.

If Froch stopped him (would that make him 2nd person after Roy Jonesto do it) it would really catapult his career, however unlikely it would be to happen, plus didn't he overcome Matthew Barney?? so it's not like he hasn't seen a spoiler before.

Froch would do Taylor in 8 if there was a rematch.

Ward (WBC #2) is a good challenge as Ward is slick and we can see if Carl has made any improvements.

Hopkins would probably look like the middleweight Hopkins (no punches until round 7, slower) if he dropped down to super middle...

Autobarn wrote:Froch would do Taylor in 8 if there was a rematch.

Ward (WBC #2) is a good challenge as Ward is slick and we can see if Carl has made any improvements.

Hopkins would probably look like the middleweight Hopkins (no punches until round 7, slower) if he dropped down to super middle...

that's big call for a fella that took rounds to get going and was lucky he hadn't been put away.
In Nottingham, with the psychological dent Taylor has already suffered, would be Froch's best chance, but I won't go writing off Taylor cos I think he would travel much better than Froch did.

Plus , whereas earlier there was only ONE reason Taylor should travel, Froch's belt...now there are TWO, cos Froch has been to his house and beat him up, so he can rightly make Taylor travel now.....should Taylor be up for it (the fight) of course.

Froch would start a lot quicker in their rematch. I agree, Carl would stop him far earlier.

Taylor's had enough of fighting bigger fighters.

Froch is one of those skinny ambitious men that you have to watch out for. I think there was something in Julius Caesar about that. He will spill blood his way to the top!

Dioufy wrote:Froch would start a lot quicker in their rematch. I agree, Carl would stop him far earlier.

I should fckin hope so mate cos if he started any slower he would still be shadow boxing in a pair of handwraps in the changing room as Taylor went into round 7!

Carl rescued that fight with 14 seconds to go....it was an exceptional circumstance. He was getting handily beaten for the most part.

If that fight happens within the next 6 months, then Froch will lose to Hopkins.....

Hopkins has all the skills that are necessary to expose Froch's weaknesses and i would strongly fancy Hopkins to stop Froch in the later half of the fight. Froch got totally out-classed by Taylor and only won thanks to a one off punch, Taylor's stamina and 12th round naivety. If Hopkins were to fight in a similar style to the one he adopted against against Pavlik, then Froch would be in serious trouble. It's only a matter of time before Froch gets sparked and the higher calibre fighter, the more likely that it will happen.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

Dioufy wrote:Froch would start a lot quicker in their rematch. I agree, Carl would stop him far earlier.

I should fckin hope so mate cos if he started any slower he would still be shadow boxing in a pair of handwraps in the changing room as Taylor went into round 7!

Carl rescued that fight with 14 seconds to go....it was an exceptional circumstance. He was getting handily beaten for the most part.

before that 14 seconds he was also hammering taylor with an awesome barrage of unanswered shots. it's not like he did nothing until the last seconds, though he did cut it fine

no point fighting taylor again. is 2 wins over taylor really that much better than one? would a win over taylor and a win over andre ward not look better? if he could KO 2 good, tricky mandatories in a row that would be impressive.

Hopkins wants Froch, but he'll want a couple of million too. Is Froch a big enough name, to get the cash that Hopkins would want to fight him?