BoxRec

Goz wrote:

Carbo wrote:

Goz wrote: pacman made him look like an ABSOLUTE FU*KIN BUM tonight

I think the clue is in the first word of that sentence, Pacman. Pacquiao is a true all time great. The idea that Witter would have mullered Hatton is preposterous. Witter couldn't even muller some of the european level guys he was fighting. And did you forget the Bradley fight?

Oi quote the right idiot!

Yikes!

I shall change it forthwith.

Boxingmad wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Floyd - best trainer in the world??

Hatton soon to be P4P #1?

Both claims shot down in flames, and thank god for Manny Pac

Mayweather's mouth has got on everyone's nerves. If he's the so-called best trainer in the world then why didn't he have a strategy to deal with the Pacman's southpaw style. To me it looked like Hatton had never seen a southpaw in his life!

Freddie Roach quietly went about his work, no trash talk etc. just getting on with the job. It's very sad that Parkinsons disease is taking it's toll because Roach has so much to give.

Mayweather held the pads as an orthodox how will Hatton pick up tricks on how to handle a southpaw except in sparring but Roach held the pads Orthodox and told the punches to catch Hatton and it worked a treat

RJP wrote:Pacman is a great fighter but let's put things into context here.

Hatton couldn't have made it easier for him if he'd tried, all that talk of adapting etc was exposed cruelly out there. He sleepwalked onto every single shot out there. On top of this, aside from that last shot which would've dropped a police horse, it's difficult to tell how much of that performance was down to Pacman's power and how much was down to a complete inability of Hatton to take a punch these days.

My feeling is that Hatton's lifestyle and inability to change caught up with him in the most dramatic of fashions out there tonight.

Take nothing away from Pacman but I still think Mayweather would suss out a way to beat him.

Hatton has only ever lost to Mayweather and Pac Man , 2 of the best fighters ever. I see it didn't take long for the revisionism to start.

One thing that put me off going to Vegas whenever Hatton boxed was the overwhelming number of fans that went out to watch him. Now I would certainly say that a large majority of them weren't real boxing fans and I do recall some of us here moaning that it was impossible to get tickets for the Mayweather bout and this one. Now maybe we'll have a chance to get to watch some big fights over there! (assuming the Hitman doesn't fight over there again)

search wrote:
truth is, hatton was never that good. he was always one dimensional and struggled with fighters who had any semblance of skill.

That is the truth.

He brings money and his support clouded peoples minds, he brings money so he gets the fights.

The boy has never had to fight the top b level fghters to get a shot at the best, he just gets the opportunities based on his fanbase.

Lazcano amd Maliganaggggiiiii do not prepare you for anything.

Its a fact.


All this 'dominated a division for 4 years' who did he fight?? KT and thats it.

Cotto ( He would NEVER fiht Cotto)
Holt ( World Champ and fast and can punch)
Corley ( when he had something)
Witter ( WBC Title Ran from him like a bitch)
Torres ( one time WBO World Champ and can punch)
Bradley ( WBC Champ)

He fought the weakest champs.

Dominated nothing, cash rules and meant he got ktfo when he met the best...TWICE!

Gazmac81 wrote:if Ricky hatton and Joe Calzaghe are off the scene then the Brit scene is bleak

David haye apart im not that excited for the coming few years
Carl Froch is not the answer as god as his fight with pascal was his last performance was not good to watch apart from then finish , up till that point not much action from him.

Hatton and Calzaghe will be missed

hope hatton goes out in style with top fight

Calzaghe left, and it made no difference. It was "Good Riddance" for some

We will be a bit light on pro boxers at the top level assuming Hatton calls it a day, but at least the latest crop of Olympians are decent and Khan joining up with Roach and sticking with Warren should see him safely through the path of least resistance for a while.

DG. wrote:

search wrote:
truth is, hatton was never that good. he was always one dimensional and struggled with fighters who had any semblance of skill.

That is the truth.

He brings money and his support clouded peoples minds, he brings money so he gets the fights.

The boy has never had to fight the top b level fghters to get a shot at the best, he just gets the opportunities based on his fanbase.

Lazcano amd Maliganaggggiiiii do not prepare you for anything.

Its a fact.


All this 'dominated a division for 4 years' who did he fight?? KT and thats it.

Cotto ( He would NEVER fiht Cotto)
Holt ( World Champ and fast and can punch)
Corley ( when he had something)
Witter ( WBC Title Ran from him like a bitch)
Torres ( one time WBO World Champ and can punch)
Bradley ( WBC Champ)

He fought the weakest champs.

Dominated nothing, cash rules and meant he got ktfo when he met the best...TWICE!

Cotto - Mayweather "retired" rather than face him. Once he moved up to 147, Hatton wasn't going to fight him either.

Holt - Are you kidding? Holt was never one of the ones to beat in the division until very, very recently. He'd been TKOed by Torres in 2007 and had just built himself back up before being beaten by Bradley.

Corley - Wasn't as good as made out to be. He lost every single time he made the step up to anything resembling World class. Bad stylistically for Hatton and no point in taking the fight.

Witter - Everyone knows the story.

Bradley - Hatton would never have had the opportunity to fight him. Would you rather he fought Bradley instead of Pacquiao?

MightyWarrior wrote:Floyd - best trainer in the world??

Hatton soon to be P4P #1?

Both claims shot down in flames, and thank god for Manny Pac

What sort of idiot fights a guy who has amazing speed and a real pop in his shots without keeping his hands up and reaches in with his chin in the air?

The speed of mannys shots is amazing. The chances of having reflexes quick enough to move your hands to block them or avoid the shots is not high so when that is the case, make sure you have your hands around your chin so that if you dont see them coming, they have at least some chance of hitting something other than your chin. End of the day, all manny had to do was throw the punches out and they would hit Hatton in the face because he was open. He couldnt possibly miss. Had Hatton put his hands up Manny would have had a harder target to hit. Simple shit now.

Hatton had zero gameplan while Roach and Moorer were studying everything and working out every single movement in training Manny with Hatton and what he does in mind.

Hatton has never been a true elite fighter and has never beaten a genuine top fighter in his whole life. I admit he has beaten one guy that was once an elite champion but make no mistake, the KT he beat was not THE Kostya.

Castillo was a solid, good but not great fighter and was on the slide anyway.
As for the rest - Maussa was a real bum who got lucky. Urango was a novice with stength but no smarts nor skills. Collazo is a solid fringe guy, very solid but not spectacular and besides, Hatton squeaked past. Paulie has zero power. So who has he really beaten?

It was amateur stuff - hands down, lunging, chin up, wild wide shots, no head movement, nothing subtle, just basic forward wading in lobbing out punches in the general direction of the other guy without a single thought of what they other guy is about.

Cannibal wrote:


Cotto - Mayweather "retired" rather than face him. Once he moved up to 147, Hatton wasn't going to fight him either.

Holt - Are you kidding? Holt was never one of the ones to beat in the division until very, very recently. He'd been TKOed by Torres in 2007 and had just built himself back up before being beaten by Bradley.

Corley - Wasn't as good as made out to be. He lost every single time he made the step up to anything resembling World class. Bad stylistically for Hatton and no point in taking the fight.

Witter - Everyone knows the story.

Bradley - Hatton would never have had the opportunity to fight him. Would you rather he fought Bradley instead of Pacquiao?

1) Cotto - We are talking about HATTON not fighting him.
2) Holt is fast and slick and can punch = danger. If Lazcano can hurt Hatton then Holt can. Holt is better than Maussa!
3) Corley was a good operator and better than Mausa and lazcano.
4) Witter - awkward big hitter and good chin.
5) Bradley- Hatton could have chosen him ANYTIME - Badley wanted it, Hatton fought PM.

Maussa - Urango - Lazcano and PM does not mean you 'dominate' a division when there are better fihters in that division.

Just my opinion.

I know I just said it, but I am sitting here still amazed at what happened. I really cannot grasp what on earth goes on inside a guys head that he fights the fastest, sharpest, hardest hitting little buzzsaw in world boxing without having your bloody hands up.

It is stupidity x 100. He deserves to be nailed to the floor for his sheer arrogance.

tobyh5 wrote:What sort of idiot fights a guy who has amazing speed and a real pop in his shots without keeping his hands up and reaches in with his chin in the air?

The speed of mannys shots is amazing. The chances of having reflexes quick enough to move your hands to block them or avoid the shots is not high so when that is the case, make sure you have your hands around your chin so that if you dont see them coming, they have at least some chance of hitting something other than your chin. End of the day, all manny had to do was throw the punches out and they would hit Hatton in the face because he was open. He couldnt possibly miss. Had Hatton put his hands up Manny would have had a harder target to hit. Simple shit now.

Hatton had zero gameplan while Roach and Moorer were studying everything and working out every single movement in training Manny with Hatton and what he does in mind.

Hatton has never been a true elite fighter and has never beaten a genuine top fighter in his whole life. I admit he has beaten one guy that was once an elite champion but make no mistake, the KT he beat was not THE Kostya.

Castillo was a solid, good but not great fighter and was on the slide anyway.
As for the rest - Maussa was a real bum who got lucky. Urango was a novice with stength but no smarts nor skills. Collazo is a solid fringe guy, very solid but not spectacular and besides, Hatton squeaked past. Paulie has zero power. So who has he really beaten?

It was amateur stuff - hands down, lunging, chin up, wild wide shots, no head movement, nothing subtle, just basic forward wading in lobbing out punches in the general direction of the other guy without a single thought of what they other guy is about.

Yep, it's fair to say that Hatton has not beaten anyone of top flight, and by that I mean elite operators a la Pacman & PBF, although they are the P4P bosses in most people's minds.

Would you consider anyone that Hatton's fought to be a top-level operator? And I certainly don't think that the Kostya Tzyu of June 2005 was anywhere near the Tzyu of 1995 when he first won the IBF title. Typical of Allegedly's fighters, they are protected all the way, which Hatton was on the way up. Good names, but way past their best. Maussa, Collazo, Urango, Mallignaggi, a shot J C Castillo etc. Am I overdoing it a bit, or is that how the rest of you see it?

Pacman made Ricky look like a complete amateur last night. Sorry to see him go out like that though, hope he retires now.
Its amazing that Pac carries his power up the weight divisions like this.

DG. wrote:

Cannibal wrote:


Cotto - Mayweather "retired" rather than face him. Once he moved up to 147, Hatton wasn't going to fight him either.

Holt - Are you kidding? Holt was never one of the ones to beat in the division until very, very recently. He'd been TKOed by Torres in 2007 and had just built himself back up before being beaten by Bradley.

Corley - Wasn't as good as made out to be. He lost every single time he made the step up to anything resembling World class. Bad stylistically for Hatton and no point in taking the fight.

Witter - Everyone knows the story.

Bradley - Hatton would never have had the opportunity to fight him. Would you rather he fought Bradley instead of Pacquiao?

1) Cotto - We are talking about HATTON not fighting him.
2) Holt is fast and slick and can punch = danger. If Lazcano can hurt Hatton then Holt can. Holt is better than Maussa!
3) Corley was a good operator and better than Mausa and lazcano.
4) Witter - awkward big hitter and good chin.
5) Bradley- Hatton could have chosen him ANYTIME - Badley wanted it, Hatton fought PM.

Maussa - Urango - Lazcano and PM does not mean you 'dominate' a division when there are better fihters in that division.

Just my opinion.

Yes, but it's a truly idiotic one, on several levels -- in terms of historical and factual accuracy, in terms of boxing knowledge, and in terms of the logic upon which it is built.

WayoftheCass wrote:

RJP wrote:Pacman is a great fighter but let's put things into context here.

Hatton couldn't have made it easier for him if he'd tried, all that talk of adapting etc was exposed cruelly out there. He sleepwalked onto every single shot out there. On top of this, aside from that last shot which would've dropped a police horse, it's difficult to tell how much of that performance was down to Pacman's power and how much was down to a complete inability of Hatton to take a punch these days.

My feeling is that Hatton's lifestyle and inability to change caught up with him in the most dramatic of fashions out there tonight.

Take nothing away from Pacman but I still think Mayweather would suss out a way to beat him.

Hatton has only ever lost to Mayweather and Pac Man , 2 of the best fighters ever. I see it didn't take long for the revisionism to start.

Go ahead and explain to me which bit of this post was revisionist/innaccurate?

Boxingmad wrote:Yep, it's fair to say that Hatton has not beaten anyone of top flight, and by that I mean elite operators a la Pacman & PBF, although they are the P4P bosses in most people's minds.

Would you consider anyone that Hatton's fought to be a top-level operator? And I certainly don't think that the Kostya Tzyu of June 2005 was anywhere near the Tzyu of 1995 when he first won the IBF title. Typical of Allegedly's fighters, they are protected all the way, which Hatton was on the way up. Good names, but way past their best. Maussa, Collazo, Urango, Mallignaggi, a shot J C Castillo etc. Am I overdoing it a bit, or is that how the rest of you see it?

Spot on.

Carbo wrote:

Yes, but it's a truly idiotic one, on several levels -- in terms of historical and factual accuracy, in terms of boxing knowledge, and in terms of the logic upon which it is built.

Why?

Explain.

It is 100% accurate and you know it.

You come across as a psuedo-intellectual ( In ordinary terms....a Prick!)

Explain yourself.

Come on carbo, explain yourself!

DG. wrote:

Boxingmad wrote:Yep, it's fair to say that Hatton has not beaten anyone of top flight, and by that I mean elite operators a la Pacman & PBF, although they are the P4P bosses in most people's minds.

Would you consider anyone that Hatton's fought to be a top-level operator? And I certainly don't think that the Kostya Tzyu of June 2005 was anywhere near the Tzyu of 1995 when he first won the IBF title. Typical of Allegedly's fighters, they are protected all the way, which Hatton was on the way up. Good names, but way past their best. Maussa, Collazo, Urango, Mallignaggi, a shot J C Castillo etc. Am I overdoing it a bit, or is that how the rest of you see it?

Spot on.

x2

RJP wrote:

WayoftheCass wrote:

RJP wrote:Pacman is a great fighter but let's put things into context here.

Hatton couldn't have made it easier for him if he'd tried, all that talk of adapting etc was exposed cruelly out there. He sleepwalked onto every single shot out there. On top of this, aside from that last shot which would've dropped a police horse, it's difficult to tell how much of that performance was down to Pacman's power and how much was down to a complete inability of Hatton to take a punch these days.

My feeling is that Hatton's lifestyle and inability to change caught up with him in the most dramatic of fashions out there tonight.

Take nothing away from Pacman but I still think Mayweather would suss out a way to beat him.

Hatton has only ever lost to Mayweather and Pac Man , 2 of the best fighters ever. I see it didn't take long for the revisionism to start.

Go ahead and explain to me which bit of this post was revisionist/innaccurate?

I just think its easy after the fight to say that he was shot when beforehand no one was saying that. Hatton's only 30 and hasn't had that many hard fights. I'd say Manny's had many more.

"to take a punch these days"

I was surprised he went down twice but the first one was a case of a big swing followed by getting caught when completely off balance. He didn't look too hurt just really embarrassed. After that Manny smelt blood and Ricky got overwhelmed and went down under a hail for a breather. He looked okay in the 2nd until he got poleaxed by , like you said, "that last shot which would've dropped a police horse".
For me the fight ended far too early and definitively for anyone to factor in punch resistance or lifestyle. Watt started on that before the fight even ended. Sometimes a great fighter just gets done by another great fighter ala Hagler-Hearns.

teddy007 wrote:

DG. wrote:

Boxingmad wrote:Yep, it's fair to say that Hatton has not beaten anyone of top flight, and by that I mean elite operators a la Pacman & PBF, although they are the P4P bosses in most people's minds.

Would you consider anyone that Hatton's fought to be a top-level operator? And I certainly don't think that the Kostya Tzyu of June 2005 was anywhere near the Tzyu of 1995 when he first won the IBF title. Typical of Allegedly's fighters, they are protected all the way, which Hatton was on the way up. Good names, but way past their best. Maussa, Collazo, Urango, Mallignaggi, a shot J C Castillo etc. Am I overdoing it a bit, or is that how the rest of you see it?

Spot on.

x2

If your gonna say that Tyszu was a shadow of the fighter he was when he faced Ricky then its easy to say that Ricky was a shadow of the fighter he was when he faced Manny. Personally I think neither is true.
I think Manny's a great fighter who shocked us all when his speed, strength and power and rather than acknowledge that its real easy to all round on Ricky and suddenly all dismiss him and denigrate what he achieved. He was the best light-welter in the world for years and no one saw what happened coming.

DG. wrote:Come on carbo, explain yourself!

Can't speak for Carbo but I think:

Junior Witter- held the title for a short time. Previous to that he did nothing but run like a rabbit against Judah in a horrible fight. He also won a controversial decision against the solid Kotelnik.
His title winning fight against Corley was horrible bordering on disgraceful. He was impressive against Harris (but hadn't he beat clearly beaten by Maussa?). Witter than lost to the completely unknown and untested Tim Bradley, on his own turf.
Junior never beat anyone even approaching the quality of Tyszu, Castillo or Urango and if he'd moved up to welter to challenge Collazo he would have been dominated. IMO. I mean compare Witter's pre-title winning opposition to Hatton's. Its night and day.

Kendall Holt- Ko'd in a round by a nobody. Ko'd by the entertaining but limited Torres who's whole rep was based on his losing war with Cotto. He then beats Torres in a freak fight where the clinical blow was clearly a headbutt. Beat unbeaten but nothing special Demetrius Hopkins on points in a dull, spiritless fight. Then loses to Bradley. If you put Holt in with Urango I think he'd get ko'd as he likes to stand and trade, has been down a few times and knocked out himself and is no stylist. Urango hits very hard ( he nearly took Vilches head clean off) and is like an oxe.

Bradley- light punching and aggressive he would have given Ricky a fight but no evidence he would win. Hatton was taking fights against PBF and Manny when Bradley was making his name. When he beat Malignanggi that was easily the highest profile fight at the time. Paulie got owned by Ricky and its easy to say he was rubbish while conveniently forgetting how much trouble he gave Miguel Cotto.
Bradley to this day can not sell tickets in his own living room.

I fail to see at what point any of those fights were a goer for Ricky when you consider the much more high profile box office fights he has taken. I just think its easy to stick the boot in when a fighters down. That's all. All the best.

PS: De Marcus Corley ? . He was nothing at world level and outside of briefly wobbling Cotto he got his arse handed to him when he fought anyone even approaching world class. Just look where he and Hatton are in their careers now. That one is a complete non-starter and if you need further evidence I'll send you a tape of Corley-Witter. It gives the term 'phony war' a bad name.

WOTC, I think what I was trying to say was that Ricky just got outclassed by Manny P, as he would have by the 1995 Kostya Tzyu. But his achievements are still great ones, I just feel that perhaps had he been given some sturdy tests on the way up then he might have been better prepared for the Pacman. Unfortunately Mayweather would beat the Hitman ten times out of ten seven days a week, he is pure genius in the ring & perhaps the one of the greatest boxing talents ever to grace the sport.
Pacman is different - he is just very very good at what he does, with a good boxing brain and a great trainer in Freddie Roach. I saw Hatton on Saturday night unable to deal with anything that Manny threw at him. Two knockdowns in the first round and then the KO in the second. Why couldn't Ricky deal with it? It looked to me like he'd never seen a southpaw in his life. I just think the gulf in class between them was way too big, and perhaps Hatton's ring education on the way up may have something to do with it.